Full range + Subwoofer setup. Criticism needed

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kyle321

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Joined 2013
#1
I'm considering a speaker system using one wide box with separate enclosures for two full range drivers and one sub.

This is only the second speaker system I've ever built, so, i'm still a bit green. I'm wondering if anyone can give me advice as to weather or not the following components would work well together. (included are their specs)


Any feedback/criticism is highly appreciated!
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FULL-RANGE (2 Speakers-stereo)

• MODEL: Dayton Audio RS100-8 4" Reference Full-Range Driver
o RMS: 30 watts
o 8 ohms
o Freq. Response: 90 to 20,000
o Sensitivity: 84.6 dB 2.83V/1m
o Resonant freq.: 92.2 Hz

These two full-range drivers would be pushed by a 2x15 Watt 4 ohm amp.





WOOFER (1 mono speaker)

• Dayton Audio DC160-8 6-1/2" Classic Woofer
o RMS: 50 watts
o 8 ohms
o Freq. Response: 30 to 4,000
o Sensitivity: 86.1 dB 2.83V/1m
o Resonant freq.: 35.7 Hz

o Crossover: Low-pass 100Hz 8 ohm

This woofer would be pushed by a 1x30 Watt 4 ohm amp. It would also need its only level adjustment. (VOL pot)

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My questions:

-Would these speakers work well together?
-Is the crossover frequency selection a good one?
-Are the speaker watt and amp outputs OK for each other?
-Is there anything i'm missing here? haha..


Thanks in advance to any input!!
 
#2
Put your crossover frequency up a bit higher, like 180Hz maybe. Your 'full range' drivers will take less bass, which will improve the quality. Otherwise, it seems pretty okay. I would however beef up on the midhigh's amps. You're gonna clip the amps easily and that'll kill your killer system. If you're buying chinese boards, you should be especially careful. "2x200w" is usually only 2x25w 😛

when hooking up the subwoofer's amp, use a resistor summing network to sum the bass off the two channels. It makes sure you don't get any bass lost. Some bass is actually directional. Depends on the mastering.
 
#3
HumbleDeer said:
Put your crossover frequency up a bit higher, like 180Hz maybe. Your 'full range' drivers will take less bass, which will improve the quality. Otherwise, it seems pretty okay. I would however beef up on the midhigh's amps. You're gonna clip the amps easily and that'll kill your killer system. If you're buying chinese boards, you should be especially careful. "2x200w" is usually only 2x25w 😛

when hooking up the subwoofer's amp, use a resistor summing network to sum the bass off the two channels. It makes sure you don't get any bass lost. Some bass is actually directional. Depends on the mastering.
Click to expand...


Thanks for the thoughtful response!

-As for raising the crossover, I guess that would be a good idea in order for the frequencies of FR and sub to overlap a bit?
-Do you think a 2x30 watt amp (sure electronics board) would be OK for those FR drivers? .. Or even more 'beef' ? hah

"Resistor summing network"
-This is a new term for me, so thanks for the heads up!
Would the following diagram work for this setup??

screenhunter_02-aug-27-19-35-1024x329.gif



Thanks!
 
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#5
scottjoplin said:
Hi. I don't understand what you are planning....one, two or three boxes?
Click to expand...

Yes, my words were vague here. Its simply one wide box (almost like a soundbar, but deeper). But, each speaker has its own chamber inside. So, the internal volumes will be separated for each speaker...

The entire unit will be off the ground and the sub-woofer would be facing down.
 
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#6
Well, this is a novel approach..🙂 I thought it might be something like a soundbar you were describing after reading your first post, but now I have even more questions 😕🙄. Like, size, and is it gunna have legs or dangle from the ceiling? 😱
 
#7
kyle - to expand a bit on humbledeer's suggestion - the higher you can crossover the "subs", the lower the midrange distortion and higher attainable SPLs from the mid-range on up - to the limits of the FR driver - no majik there, just physics. However, if you go much higher than about 120, I'd generally suggest that a pair of stereo woofers would yield better results in terms of imaging.

Also keep in mind that often the most uniform performance at lowest frequencies is attained with the woofers in a different position than the mains. Nothing wrong with the idea of a sound-bar type enclosure for the FR drivers, but unless you're severely constrained in space, I think you'd get much more satisfactory results with at the least the woofer(s) - either just one or two - in stereo in separate cabinet(s)

The drivers you've listed should delivery very good results.
 
#8
scottjoplin said:
Well, this is a novel approach..🙂 I thought it might be something like a soundbar you were describing after reading your first post, but now I have even more questions 😕🙄. Like, size, and is it gunna have legs or dangle from the ceiling? 😱
Click to expand...


It will be on steel legs about a few feet above the ground. The entire unit will be about 6"(height) x 18(depth) x 3' (width)

But, those dimensions don't necessarily represent the internal volume for each speaker, I was going to base that off of what each speaker spec. recommends.


The whole unit, sitting above ground on steel legs. Kind of like a table.
 
#9
chrisb said:
kyle - to expand a bit on humbledeer's suggestion - the higher you can crossover the "subs", the lower the midrange distortion and higher attainable SPLs from the mid-range on up - to the limits of the FR driver - no majik there, just physics. However, if you go much higher than about 120, I'd generally suggest that a pair of stereo woofers would yield better results in terms of imaging.

Also keep in mind that often the most uniform performance at lowest frequencies is attained with the woofers in a different position than the mains. Nothing wrong with the idea of a sound-bar type enclosure for the FR drivers, but unless you're severely constrained in space, I think you'd get much more satisfactory results with at the least the woofer(s) - either just one or two - in stereo in separate cabinet(s)

The drivers you've listed should delivery very good results.
Click to expand...


Thanks for the info!

This is the type of crossover I had in mind for the sub... I was thinking that the full-range drivers would not have any crossover attached. Would that be ok?
https://www.parts-express.com/parts-express-100-hz-low-pass-8-ohm-crossover--266-446

As for the sub position, I was thinking of placing the sub firing downwards at the floor. The whole box-unit would be a few feet off the ground.
 
#13
The image you showed me of the resistor network is exactly what I mean. 2x30Watts will be fine as long as you don't crank it to literally 100%. That'll sound horrid anyway and 30 watts for a portable thing is a surprising amount of hearing damage.
 
#15
scottjoplin said:
Have you decided what kind of enclosure to use for the sub? What kind of bass do you want, if you know what I mean?
Click to expand...

I'd like to bass to be 'decent', but, definitely not overpowering. I plan for the full ranges to be in a sealed space. But, i'm still deciding weather or not I want to port the sub or not. -open to suggestions though-
What do you think about sealed vs. ported?

I'd like for this piece to be a good sounding 'centerpiece' of a living room about 18x20 ft. in size.
 
#16
In you look at the parts-express page, They mention that f3 is at 136Hz, so that original 100Hz XO would not work well.

I also second Chris idea of doubling the woofers, one for each side. That will result in a much better sound than a single one.

A couple of extra suggestions, take them or leave them.

Consider adding a real sub hidden towards a corner of the room. Even a smallish 8" will give you a feel of lower bass, but will certainly not be overpowering or slamming. There's a lot of LF information that we never get to hear when people only use smallish bookshelf, and the likes, speakers.

Also, if you can place the drivers away from the back wall a bit, like at least 2 or 3 feet, give yourself a listening session with drivers mounted on an open baffle.

That is, if you're completely married to the idea of the table thing.

Easy to do, when you get the drivers, just mount them on a piece of plywood and use a couple of chairs to hold it. Then have a listen. OB is a different experience, with the sound irradiating, not just projected from a box.

One should at least try OB once in a life, to see/hear if we like it or not.
 
#19
Both design, OB or your sealed table, would benefit from a sub.

No need to do vented on the full range. You might want to do that with the woofer(s).
P-E suggest sealed at 89Hz, and Vented at 54Hz.

If you do plan to add a small sub, then make it easy and go for sealed woofers in your table.

Your mind seems to go all over the place, and not focused.
I suggest you step back a bit, take a breather, and look at the concept again. Play with the parts, draw on paper, or computer, and follow your train of thoughts.

Once it is planned, clear and settled in your mind, it will be a lot easier.
 
#20
kyle321 said:
I'd like to bass to be 'decent', but, definitely not overpowering. I plan for the full ranges to be in a sealed space. But, i'm still deciding weather or not I want to port the sub or not. -open to suggestions though-
What do you think about sealed vs. ported?
Click to expand...

Hi, looks like you've discovered the main differences between ported and sealed. Another option is transmission line (TL), this can give you very smooth, clean, deep bass. It requires more work on the cabinet though:smash:

I'd like for this piece to be a good sounding 'centerpiece' of a living room about 18x20 ft. in size.
Click to expand...

A three foot wide box will not give you any stereo imagine in a room that size unless you are sitting approximately three feet from it, but you knew that already 😉🙂
 
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