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2.1 4" unit, can't decide
2.1 4" unit, can't decide
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Old 9th December 2015, 08:10 PM   #1
Vigier is offline Vigier  Netherlands
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Smile 2.1 4" unit, can't decide

Hi,
since I have to take two week vacation around Christmas, I'm looking for a small project. Since my girlfriend isn't a real music lover, she doesn't have a stereo system in her living room.
That gave me the idea to build a small system during the vacation. Usually I build 2 or 3 way speakers, but since this one has to be small I'm thinking of a (for me new field) 2.1 system using full range units as left/right and a small sub if necessary.
I've been searching a bunch of HobbyHifi's and Klang&Ton's (German DIY magazines for who don't know them), DIYaudio and the web for measurements.

I'm looking for 4 inch units. The units that made it through the first round:
Omnes Audio BB4.01, Scan Speak 12W/4524G00, Scan Speak 10F/8414G10, Wavecor FR084WA01, Wavecor FR090WA01, Seas MU10RB-SL, Visaton B80, Wavecor WF118WA06, TB W4-655C, W4-1320xxx, W4-1337xxx, Fountek FR88EX. First round had the criteria of 'about 4 inch', acceptable distortion and waterfall diagram, relatively small enclosure, preferrably under $70 or under $100 including filter per side. They didn't have to be a fullrange 'by nature'.
After second round of selection: BB4.01, 10F/8414G10, W4-655C. But... I don't know from here, my doubts:
  • HobbyHifi 1/16 is really really positive about the BB4.01. But it needs a passive filter twice the price of the unit itself to make the response that perfect. Isn't it better to invest that in the driver? Or is it actually that good and shouldn't the large filter let that scare me off? (as I have the thought that when a driver needs a large/complex filter, that says something about the quality of the unit)
  • A lot of people are enthousiast about the TB units, but I don't have good enough measurements to compare with the measurements I have in HobbyHifi/Klang&Ton.
  • Do I need an extra tweeter for 10kHz and up? If I do so, why don't go to a normal 2 way instead of a fullrange+single subwoofer.
  • How important is the range from 10kHz and 20kHz? When I 'flatten cone breakup' with an LCR, is that enough, or still to much of a risk? And I also see fullranges that have almost no output above 15kHz.
Maybe I have too much questions, because of too much doubt.

I'd appreciate your opinion and experience.

Kind regards, Vigier
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Old 9th December 2015, 08:40 PM   #2
sreten is offline sreten  United Kingdom
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Hi,

3" drivers are ideal for tweeterless FR's. 4" FR's suffer from
off axis loss, and if you add a tweeter you may as well use
a proper bassmid and build a proper 2 way speaker.

See for inspiration :

https://sites.google.com/site/undefi...ightsensations

Cerberus

Build the speakers sealed if using a sub.

rgds, sreten.
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Old 9th December 2015, 09:18 PM   #3
chrisb is offline chrisb  Canada
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Since this is the "full range" forum, and unless local supply and pricing issues are prohibitive, a couple of names to add to your short list should be Mark Audio, and Fostex. They both have very well performing drivers in the 3" and 4" weight class, and literally dozens of proven enclosure designs by the DIY community herein.

My back storage room is full of examples of both - and for my aged ears, none need the addition of tweeters for that last octave above 10K.

For a 2-way I'd rather go with a FAST type - smaller FR and supporting stereo woofers crossed over in the low hundreds, below the telephone band. (i.e. 180 - 350 range). This can certainly be achieved in a modular fashion (the old sub/sat) with 3-4" FR driver and separate self powered woofer. There are even some 2.1 plate amps that provided you have volume control upstream make for a very tidy system, not unlike the configuration of small computer speaker systems that are generally quite horrid sounding - at least that's been the case with all the entry level up to $300 price range that I've heard.
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Old 10th December 2015, 01:55 AM   #4
perceval is offline perceval  Taiwan
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There a good thread about the TABAQ which is an easy build, uses TB drivers, or the likes, sounds very good and yet still small enough to not get intrusive.

Putting them against a wall, they don't really need and BSC.
Also, follow Bjorn suggestion of mounting the driver 5cm lower than in the original drawing.

Stain or paint them in the same colours as the living room and you'd probably have a winner!

TABAQ TL for Tang Band
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Old 10th December 2015, 08:05 PM   #5
wesayso is online now wesayso  Netherlands
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Vifa Tg9 FD10-08 comes to mind, as well as the TC9 FD18-08... relatives of the Scan Speak 10F, definitely full range but the TG9 is harder to find nowadays but should still be available here and there. Get the 8 ohm TG9, not the 4 ohm that's a lot easier to find.

I bet you'll like the price and measurements of both.
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Old 10th December 2015, 09:01 PM   #6
Vigier is offline Vigier  Netherlands
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Thanks a lot for all of your ideas!
The Overnight Sensations look great, I think my girlfriend will like the look of the Hivi units. WAF and size are also important, didn't mention that in my opening post. A lot of enthousiast builders on the site sreten posted.

The Fostex and TC9 units have one 'problem', the shape of the units. I tried to make the shape with a router and a chisel a few years ago for a Monacor SPH165CP, that didn't work out and to be honest, I don't really like the shape. The TC9 is really cheap on PE thought...

I will surely do some more research on MarkAudio drivers. I read that the Omnes Audio BB4 on my list is manufactured by MarkAudio. Units look great and the price is within my range.

I've read about 20% of the TABAQ thread, man that's a long one... But this one is too large for her. I aim for about 10 inch high, max 12 inch.

thnx again, I have some research to do for new units on my list this weekend.
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Old 10th December 2015, 09:17 PM   #7
wesayso is online now wesayso  Netherlands
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Just hide the basket shape from sight, works very well , even in measurements...
Click the image to open in full size.
I know you can do that with a router, no need for a chisel.
Need plenty of WD40 though, if you do it in Alu....
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Old 12th December 2015, 12:23 AM   #8
hifu is offline hifu  United States
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Old 14th December 2015, 10:02 PM   #9
Vigier is offline Vigier  Netherlands
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After a weekend of reading and thinking, I decided to go for the Overnight Sensation MTM. Just ordered parts. Since I need them in a few days, I had to pay a lot extra comparing to PE prices, but it's still pretty cheap.
Thnx again y'all!
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