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Old 27th February 2015, 03:04 PM   #1
Godzilla is offline Godzilla  United States
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Default DDR

The idea of DDR, how it sounds and how it can be measured has come up on another thread I no longer see on the forum. Being a music lover and full range driver fanatic I feel there is such a quality drivers posses that have what I would call DDR. It's not only associated to full range drivers and I'd even say electronics exhibit varying degrees of DDR.

The way I've always perceived DDR is how a driver remains composed and controlled during complicated passages allowing small details of the music to come thru without being masked or overwhelmed.

I've typically associated this with more expensive drivers using better quality materials and wonder if I've been tricked into hearing something that's not there... but I don't think so since I am a critical listener and have a decent collection of drivers with varying prices. Maybe some of us describe DDR as 'tone' or something else but when a driver produces the details (without being in your face) and allows you to hear deeper into the music it's a very enjoyable event.

For example, for me the Pioneer B20 has less DDR than a Fostex 168z. This could be related to frequency response. Or could it be related to how well a driver tracks electrical impulses, the weight of the cones, the flexibility of the spider, the strength of the magnet, etc??? Additionally, a 'hot' driver like a Fostex 127e has less DDR (because it becomes congested) than a 'dull' sounding TB 1320 (which to me, sounds more relaxed and composed). So it may or may not be related to frequency response.

Just my curiosity peaking.
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Old 27th February 2015, 07:00 PM   #2
norman bates is online now norman bates  United States
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Could be the crinkled cone.
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Old 27th February 2015, 07:11 PM   #3
xrk971 is offline xrk971  United States
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DDR
The so called DDR is the acoustic aftertaste that results from a cone with a ringing impulse response. The ringing extends the duration of transient peaks or impulses in time, thereby increasing their audibility. DDR will be exhibited by drivers with non smooth frequency response having major breakup mode peaks. The peaks and the ringing are Fourier transforms of each other. Listen to the impulse response wav file from a driver with clean IR and listen to one with a ringing response and hear for yourself which is more audible. This enhanced audibility is what some call more low level detail but it really isn't there in the original recording. It may sound good - I am not saying it is bad sounding. But look at the IR to find a clue of DDR. Conversely, a driver with smooth response and no ringing will not have DDR. If so, please look for an example of one and post its frequency response and IR.

Listen to the IR's of a ringing vs non ringing IR here and see which is more audible:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-...ml#post4217091

Last edited by xrk971; 27th February 2015 at 07:17 PM.
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Old 27th February 2015, 07:18 PM   #4
infinia is offline infinia  United States
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sheesh DDR as a technical term is rubbish.
define what the hell yer referring to, and then look into things like IP3, spectral regrowth eg linearity figures of merit in the presence of multi-tone or modulated signals
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Old 27th February 2015, 07:43 PM   #5
planet10 is offline planet10  Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Godzilla View Post
It's not only associated to full range drivers and I'd even say electronics exhibit varying degrees of DDR.
The term was originated by an electronics designer. It is applicable to the entire hifi chain.

Quote:
The way I've always perceived DDR is how a driver remains composed and controlled during complicated passages allowing small details of the music to come thru without being masked or overwhelmed.
I think wintermute did a very good job of defining it (from here)

Quote:
it is simply the ability of a driver to reproduce low level information in the signal at the same time as producing the louder parts. That is it can still faithfully reproduce the low level details without being swamped by the higher level signal.
I do not see how antone can dismiss the concept, It is the subtle details that give a voice or instrument their body and nuances. It is essential for producing a good 3D image/soundstage.

HiFi is about creating an illusion and these small details are essential.

The difference between a good hifi and a great one is 30-50 dB down.

dave
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Old 27th February 2015, 08:14 PM   #6
SY is offline SY  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by planet10 View Post
I do not see how antone can dismiss the concept,
It's easy to dismiss because it has never been well defined. And it's been touted by users of systems with (on a good day ) 70dB of SNR.
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Old 27th February 2015, 08:18 PM   #7
infinia is offline infinia  United States
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Im only dismissing the term DDR not a concept.
In fact radio and telecommunications has been dealing with the concept for decades.
trying to pull in weak station in the presence of a much stronger station.
the selected test tones are key ( eg Doppler distortion is a killer )
Intermodulation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Last edited by infinia; 27th February 2015 at 08:23 PM.
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Old 27th February 2015, 08:27 PM   #8
SY is offline SY  United States
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That's just plain old dynamic range. Which is absolutely a valid concept. There's no "up" or "down", that's just a marketing term.
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Old 27th February 2015, 08:36 PM   #9
sreten is offline sreten  United Kingdom
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Hi,

AFAIK its "downward dynamic range" and applicable to any system.
It is somewhat different to signal to noise ratio, and generally means
where does the sound descend to mush, for poor cabinets its not low.
Same with poor electronics. For speakers its about how high level
energy is eventually dissipated in the structure, if this resolves
to resonances you get masking, same to a degree with a cone.

rgds, sreten.
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Old 27th February 2015, 09:14 PM   #10
planet10 is offline planet10  Canada
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Using the prefix down is just saying that it is important to look at the bottom of the dynamic range and what happens to it in the precense of a much stronger signal.

Allen defined and started using the term in the early 90s so that is decades. I have been using it since the late 90s because it just makes sense.

dave
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