Hi all,
I'm a long time lurker on here, but please bear with me, because I like to paint a picture!
As far as FR drivers go, I've had experience of commercial JX92, DIY SEAS Exotics (and some other stuff I forget) courtesy of a friend who reviews for TNT-Audio.com. He's currently doing something with a pair of Eikona 2s in a CNC section stacked cabinet, but I'm awaiting to see what that turns out like....
Thing is, whilst I'm a high SPL rock, multi-driver speaker, massive subwoofer kind of bloke, my music collection ranges from Oscar Peterson to Metallica, with lots of acoustic guitar, jazz and vocal in-between. It's in that in-between where FR drivers have tickled my pink and with a family, that's more likely to be what I play at night.
Currently, I'm running a pair of DIY MTMs, the 'T' actually being a CSS 85mm BMR driver crossing to the SB17 bass drivers at the baffle step. I only latterly realized, whilst looking for alternative Mid/High drivers, that I was effectively running what I now realize is a FAST(ish) design.
The actual speakers are a little more complex than that, as I designed the mid chamber to be a tapering, open ended cavity that was progressively densely stuffed toward the rear. This vents into the cavity containing the MiniDSP plate amp, which in turn is vented above and below the plate for heat dissipation.
Why quasi TL? I built some Holtz/Cambell Mini Statements for a friend which I really liked for their natural, open and unforced mid/vocal presentation. They have a (for want of a better desciption) a mid TL, so I ran with it. Pictures to explain further:
What I don't like about the BMRs is that their dispersion is too wide - You want the treble to evenly fall away off-axis (with the speakers toed in to point at the MLP) so off-axis listeners experience the central image being pulled back toward the center by the further speaker. The BMRs are great on-axis (could offer a little more sparkle to stop them sounding so Naim) but in a multi-channel role, they seem better suited to the surround channels. You simply can't toe them in enough to get the desired effect.
However, the cunning part of this speaker, is that I deliberately designed them so it's easy to remove the baffles and replace them with others. I sized the mid chamber to accept either a waveguide mounted tweeter, or an alternative driver of circa 4" with a reasonable sized magnet. Also, it's the work of a minute to seal the 3.5L mid chamber. I suppose the term 'development mule' was somewhere in the back of my mind.
Get to the point! Okay; It seems to this relative FR newbie that both of the Markaudio 6 drivers seem to fit the bill quite nicely and will naturally have a drooping response off-axis. Both seem to have a slight on-axis 'smile' to the response which seems to fit with the way I end up tuning most of the speakers I've built to date. I'm leaning toward the 6P as it just seems to have a smoother measured response, although there is so many 'measured' responses on-line, one could get confused. The CHR-70 seems to impress in a way that the CHP-70 doesn't, which seems to flip the paper/metal coin. Sensitivity differences are a non-issue, as I'm running active with more than enough power.
Given a pass-band of 500Hz(ish) and up, which would you recommend? A pair of CHR-70 seem to offer a price advantage, although that is not an issue here. I'll splurge for the right drivers and if I end up unimpressed in this role, I'll simply make some killer PC speakers!
Sorry if that was a bit of a ramble, but as there are more people with a LOT of experience of the Markaudio drivers on this forum, I wanted to be clear.
Thanks in advance,
Russell
I'm a long time lurker on here, but please bear with me, because I like to paint a picture!
As far as FR drivers go, I've had experience of commercial JX92, DIY SEAS Exotics (and some other stuff I forget) courtesy of a friend who reviews for TNT-Audio.com. He's currently doing something with a pair of Eikona 2s in a CNC section stacked cabinet, but I'm awaiting to see what that turns out like....
Thing is, whilst I'm a high SPL rock, multi-driver speaker, massive subwoofer kind of bloke, my music collection ranges from Oscar Peterson to Metallica, with lots of acoustic guitar, jazz and vocal in-between. It's in that in-between where FR drivers have tickled my pink and with a family, that's more likely to be what I play at night.
Currently, I'm running a pair of DIY MTMs, the 'T' actually being a CSS 85mm BMR driver crossing to the SB17 bass drivers at the baffle step. I only latterly realized, whilst looking for alternative Mid/High drivers, that I was effectively running what I now realize is a FAST(ish) design.
The actual speakers are a little more complex than that, as I designed the mid chamber to be a tapering, open ended cavity that was progressively densely stuffed toward the rear. This vents into the cavity containing the MiniDSP plate amp, which in turn is vented above and below the plate for heat dissipation.
Why quasi TL? I built some Holtz/Cambell Mini Statements for a friend which I really liked for their natural, open and unforced mid/vocal presentation. They have a (for want of a better desciption) a mid TL, so I ran with it. Pictures to explain further:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
What I don't like about the BMRs is that their dispersion is too wide - You want the treble to evenly fall away off-axis (with the speakers toed in to point at the MLP) so off-axis listeners experience the central image being pulled back toward the center by the further speaker. The BMRs are great on-axis (could offer a little more sparkle to stop them sounding so Naim) but in a multi-channel role, they seem better suited to the surround channels. You simply can't toe them in enough to get the desired effect.
However, the cunning part of this speaker, is that I deliberately designed them so it's easy to remove the baffles and replace them with others. I sized the mid chamber to accept either a waveguide mounted tweeter, or an alternative driver of circa 4" with a reasonable sized magnet. Also, it's the work of a minute to seal the 3.5L mid chamber. I suppose the term 'development mule' was somewhere in the back of my mind.
Get to the point! Okay; It seems to this relative FR newbie that both of the Markaudio 6 drivers seem to fit the bill quite nicely and will naturally have a drooping response off-axis. Both seem to have a slight on-axis 'smile' to the response which seems to fit with the way I end up tuning most of the speakers I've built to date. I'm leaning toward the 6P as it just seems to have a smoother measured response, although there is so many 'measured' responses on-line, one could get confused. The CHR-70 seems to impress in a way that the CHP-70 doesn't, which seems to flip the paper/metal coin. Sensitivity differences are a non-issue, as I'm running active with more than enough power.
Given a pass-band of 500Hz(ish) and up, which would you recommend? A pair of CHR-70 seem to offer a price advantage, although that is not an issue here. I'll splurge for the right drivers and if I end up unimpressed in this role, I'll simply make some killer PC speakers!
Sorry if that was a bit of a ramble, but as there are more people with a LOT of experience of the Markaudio drivers on this forum, I wanted to be clear.
Thanks in advance,
Russell
Russell,
Either would work very well. Here is our take on these 2 as well as the Fostex FF85.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/196061-3-driver-audition-fostex-mark-audio.html
We have used the FF85wk (and the earlier FF85k) in a number of FASTs. A6s still in the project queue.
My 1st pick of the Alpairs as a mid-tweeter would be the A6.2m unless you prefer a softer, vintage top end.
We use similar midTLs as you have.
As to crossover point, that is determined by the bafflestep, room, placement, but you should try to get it below the frequency that is a 1/4 wavelength of the distance between the 2 bass drivers. We try to line things up for a 1st order XO.
The foam you are using is not all that great a damping material.
dave
Either would work very well. Here is our take on these 2 as well as the Fostex FF85.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/196061-3-driver-audition-fostex-mark-audio.html
We have used the FF85wk (and the earlier FF85k) in a number of FASTs. A6s still in the project queue.
My 1st pick of the Alpairs as a mid-tweeter would be the A6.2m unless you prefer a softer, vintage top end.
We use similar midTLs as you have.
As to crossover point, that is determined by the bafflestep, room, placement, but you should try to get it below the frequency that is a 1/4 wavelength of the distance between the 2 bass drivers. We try to line things up for a 1st order XO.
The foam you are using is not all that great a damping material.
dave
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