I have pair of 9710’s and they play beautiful in a TQWT enclosure. I am building a second large open baffle system and four big units is a bit much. So I thought building a second but smaller home for my 9710’s.
I am not a expert and there is so much written about these speakers that I get a bit confused.
Now I found a perfect looking speaker and I wish to build something like that. It is the Hoyt Bedford 1.5 tower, this is a BR enclosure with the following size
H27”68.6cm W11.5”/29.2cm D 11”/27.9cm as said I like the look and dimensions but I have no idea if this would work. I don’t have the knowledge or software etc.
I am open for suggetions, maybe changing the dimensions a bit, I even thought about a mltl with the opening on the under side (no idea if that would work but in my head it looked nice…)
I am not a expert and there is so much written about these speakers that I get a bit confused.
Now I found a perfect looking speaker and I wish to build something like that. It is the Hoyt Bedford 1.5 tower, this is a BR enclosure with the following size
H27”68.6cm W11.5”/29.2cm D 11”/27.9cm as said I like the look and dimensions but I have no idea if this would work. I don’t have the knowledge or software etc.
I am open for suggetions, maybe changing the dimensions a bit, I even thought about a mltl with the opening on the under side (no idea if that would work but in my head it looked nice…)
Attachments
The 9710 has a 10 db step at about 2 kHz so it sounds very shouty if facing forward. Angled up and backward (Decca corner horn) it sound really good.
It can be made to work facing forward but then you need some eq network
Philips 9710/
But if you want it as a full range driver with no eq it has to face upwards like the Ace horn or backwards as the Decca.
It can be made to work facing forward but then you need some eq network
Philips 9710/
But if you want it as a full range driver with no eq it has to face upwards like the Ace horn or backwards as the Decca.
In a ~50L reflex tuned to 39Hz, my pair did OK, but no much more. It's on the small side and bass was starting to be boomier than I like, a matter of taste I suppose. Might have been more acceptable in a larger room than mine too. They do have that shout as Dr.Boar mentions, both subjectively and what I measured, but listening relatively off-axis helped matters. In any case, it's hard to go small with 9710. 
Here's a small compendium of 9710 applications:
Applications Philips 9710 m
Here's a small compendium of 9710 applications:
Applications Philips 9710 m
With a Qts of 0.55 and a Fs of 45 the 9710 wants a large cab. Maybe you could do an OB but they don't really take up less space and would bro ably need a sub.
The rising highs are a plus not a bad thing. They do need to be "dealt" with though.
Use a foam lens to disperse the highs and avoid so much beaming.
Or aim the driver up and use a convex reflector above it.
The rising highs are a plus not a bad thing. They do need to be "dealt" with though.
Use a foam lens to disperse the highs and avoid so much beaming.
Or aim the driver up and use a convex reflector above it.
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Thanks for your comments and ideas. Mmmmhhh mabye not all what I wanted to hear but now I know for sure that small is difficult.
The proposed enclosures are very good I think but to big. Although the beaming up thing seems interesting. I had seen this design but I wasn't sure that it could sound good
The highs on the 9710 are a plus to me....I love the sound! But I whil try to listen it with the proper filter/correction....and mabye than it sounds even better.
I had a very bad copy of the paper mentioned in the link...thanks! Now I can really read it.
I have to think it over but mabye I can place a sub(s), I have two Philips ad12100 W/8 lying around... Or make use of the bass in the new to build OB...
Well options options options...thanks so far!
The proposed enclosures are very good I think but to big. Although the beaming up thing seems interesting. I had seen this design but I wasn't sure that it could sound good
The highs on the 9710 are a plus to me....I love the sound! But I whil try to listen it with the proper filter/correction....and mabye than it sounds even better.
I had a very bad copy of the paper mentioned in the link...thanks! Now I can really read it.
I have to think it over but mabye I can place a sub(s), I have two Philips ad12100 W/8 lying around... Or make use of the bass in the new to build OB...
Well options options options...thanks so far!
I think the commonly seen set of parameters for 9710 is pretty reliable for drivers in good condition. My pair measured very close to the data published by Troels Gravesens; heck, I've had new drivers differ from factory specs by a lot more.
I think DrBoar's data is that same group as well. Not that I don't agree it's ultimately best to measure yourself.You might have been lucky with your 9710's... on the other hand it ofcourse is also possible that the ageing of the 9710's is within a certain (reliable) bandwidth.. but you had to measure to be sure.I think the commonly seen set of parameters for 9710 is pretty reliable for drivers in good condition. My pair measured very close to the data published by Troels Gravesens; heck, I've had new drivers differ from factory specs by a lot more.
Aging usually stiffens the suspension increasing Qes and Fr and lowering the Vas. This happened to my KEF B200 but my AD12100 are close to published data
Doctor Boar; DIY loudspeakers and HiFi
Doctor Boar; DIY loudspeakers and HiFi
Any modern tweeter would work, no need to look at the 20 th century market.
I found the Audax TW 025 016 with titanium membrane being quite good for "ambience&detail" with just a 1 uF coupling cap and 3R3 resistor ( before the cap)
An extra waveguide expands the angle - tough it's not a constant directivity device
I found the Audax TW 025 016 with titanium membrane being quite good for "ambience&detail" with just a 1 uF coupling cap and 3R3 resistor ( before the cap)
An extra waveguide expands the angle - tough it's not a constant directivity device
not sure how helpful this will be
i have experimented with the 9710 about 10 yrs ago and had fun and sold them to close friends
the best design was using martin kings website and designing a mltqwt i got superb bass and used a small zobel with a old wire wound jbl l pad, with a good opt you do not need any tweeter
Quarter Wavelength Loudspeaker Design
as you can see from my pic the baffle became 3 inch thick due to the port experimentation but i made the top interchangeable to try many 8 inch fr drivers
i miss that speaker sometimes
i have experimented with the 9710 about 10 yrs ago and had fun and sold them to close friends
the best design was using martin kings website and designing a mltqwt i got superb bass and used a small zobel with a old wire wound jbl l pad, with a good opt you do not need any tweeter
Quarter Wavelength Loudspeaker Design
as you can see from my pic the baffle became 3 inch thick due to the port experimentation but i made the top interchangeable to try many 8 inch fr drivers
i miss that speaker sometimes
Attachments
Hi and thanks again, Nice site Dr. Boar.. and I will look into an modern day tweeter.
I think a reflector would become difficult, this said after a quick look around.
Hi Soulsheiksan, the speakers are now mounted in a TQWT, the reason of my question is if it possible to make smaller design. Your example looks good and I will look into the ML thing.
I think a reflector would become difficult, this said after a quick look around.
Hi Soulsheiksan, the speakers are now mounted in a TQWT, the reason of my question is if it possible to make smaller design. Your example looks good and I will look into the ML thing.
Not at all. Get someone to hold a large book, open to about 90 degrees with the spine at an angle of about 45 above the driver to see how you like it.
The final reflector could be made of thick cardboard.
another design i still use with my lafayette sk98 which i love is called the tornado ,i tried it on the 9710 and it was pretty good, but those guys do like some ballroom
as for the vent i started with 1 inch and using the ear and applying felt in the pathway to make it thinner using fabric glue, its about 3/4 inch and now sounds great f3 about 45hz but decent i use a th sub below
as for the vent i started with 1 inch and using the ear and applying felt in the pathway to make it thinner using fabric glue, its about 3/4 inch and now sounds great f3 about 45hz but decent i use a th sub below
Just throw out my Alpair 10.3 (yuck - metallic sounding voices).
Put the 9710 in 40L BR with Gravesen filter and the fun came back to my home. So much better than the Alpair 10.3. I have the big Air-Motions and Vifa ringradiators but no need for a tweeter. They are just fun. Alpair 10.3 was torture, AD-9710 is pure fun. Paper is galaxies better than metal cones. Only exeption I know is the Visaton AL-130 and Alpair 6. They do sound very good.
But I think about TQWT. Any ideas or opinions regading this?
Put the 9710 in 40L BR with Gravesen filter and the fun came back to my home. So much better than the Alpair 10.3. I have the big Air-Motions and Vifa ringradiators but no need for a tweeter. They are just fun. Alpair 10.3 was torture, AD-9710 is pure fun. Paper is galaxies better than metal cones. Only exeption I know is the Visaton AL-130 and Alpair 6. They do sound very good.
But I think about TQWT. Any ideas or opinions regading this?
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