D-37 it is. It has less of a notch for F3, and the wider baffle will help when compared to the supplied Fostex plans for the FE163en-s.
See layout attachments for build of sheet layout. I converted the plans to fit onto 2pc of 5'x5' and 1 2'x4'. (5/8" thick)(see links to layout, numbers correspond to panel #'s)
Drivers arrive on Monday.
See layout attachments for build of sheet layout. I converted the plans to fit onto 2pc of 5'x5' and 1 2'x4'. (5/8" thick)(see links to layout, numbers correspond to panel #'s)
Drivers arrive on Monday.
Attachments
Hope things are as OK as possible your end Greg -got an email half-written in Hotmail that I've been adding to in bits as time permits.Sorry about that.
As far as back horns are concerned, the longer the horn is, the lower and / or steeper the acoustic XO will likely need to be to ensure it's held to reasonable levels.
Know the problem well........ sent a PM just now.
Anyway.........how do you make a BLH's acoustic XO 'steeper' than its terminus's [vent's] natural decay?
GM
Update!! Arrived and installed in some existing cabinets I have, tuned to around 30hz. Bass output down by 6dB as expect from WinISD, but has been augmented by just increasing it on the pre amp for now. Still looking at horn enclosure options. I have access to a CNC table and 3D CAD software, so I'm contemplating doing a stacked plywood approach, or complex geometry such as Lowther corner horn designs. I really feel these drivers deserver a less compromising enclosure with the motor on these suckers!
My brother made baffle adapter out of plasma cut steel, which he even plasma cut out the holes, so everything mounted perfectly. Too bad it wasn't solid brass, but that is $$.
These units sound amazing straight out of the box. Far better than the FE206e or FE126en I used to own. Much faster dynamics and higher resolution.
My brother made baffle adapter out of plasma cut steel, which he even plasma cut out the holes, so everything mounted perfectly. Too bad it wasn't solid brass, but that is $$.
These units sound amazing straight out of the box. Far better than the FE206e or FE126en I used to own. Much faster dynamics and higher resolution.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Hi Croweproductions,
I just purchased the same drivers and am looking for a cabinet design for them. Please keep me posted on the progress of your D-37 cabinets as I am considering that design as well as the Victor. If I do the D-37 I may try to do it by slightly rounding the corners and layering CNC cut Baltic birch and MDF alternating.
I recently picked up some blh's to use with the drivers as a starting point- these cabinets are originally built for the Fostex Fe208 drivers and they are not ideal for the 163's but they were cheap and a place to start. Anyway, I look forward to hearing how the D-37/Fe163En-S combination works for you.
Cheers,
Patrick
I just purchased the same drivers and am looking for a cabinet design for them. Please keep me posted on the progress of your D-37 cabinets as I am considering that design as well as the Victor. If I do the D-37 I may try to do it by slightly rounding the corners and layering CNC cut Baltic birch and MDF alternating.
I recently picked up some blh's to use with the drivers as a starting point- these cabinets are originally built for the Fostex Fe208 drivers and they are not ideal for the 163's but they were cheap and a place to start. Anyway, I look forward to hearing how the D-37/Fe163En-S combination works for you.
Cheers,
Patrick
Are you referring to slightly rounding the corners? I'm wondering to what degree they were designed so that they could be built using flat ply or mdf vs. the degree to which it is best managing the back waves of the driver? Thoughts...
Get those beauties into a BLH and enjoy!
Or, seal them up and add a powered subwoofer and enjoy!
Or, put them onto an open baffle with bass support and enjoy!
Enjoy!
Or, seal them up and add a powered subwoofer and enjoy!
Or, put them onto an open baffle with bass support and enjoy!
Enjoy!
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They were designed so that the expansions at the corner act as low pass filters keeping the highs from escaping the mouth. Rounding takes you in the opposite (wrong) direction. Each panel is used to take optimal advantage of the plywood used (these are not intended to be built with mdf).
dave
Hey John, great to see another fan of these drivers. I was first impressed by the flat tonal balance on the spec sheet for these, and my suspicions were confirmed upon first listen. No wierd peaks, no roll off's, no rising response, just refeshingly flat tone the way the music was meant to be heard. I think Fostex engineers took a good starting point with a 6.5", (not too big, not too small) and tweaked/ modded this thing until it was a show off piece...at least in Japan.
I have been doing a lot of research on the best enclosure, exploring many options. I'm really not interested in a helper woofer. This is what i had for years, and #1, my brain can tell the difference o matter how well i can try and convince myself its integrated with the midrange. #2 i've heard the power and live sound a good horn can make, and i'm hooked (khorns in a large room). #3 i consider this an academic excercise, to see what can be pulled from a single driver. I've been told to not expect or try to get low bass out of small drivers, but I hav read the contrary ( decware corner horn for one).
So right now, I'm most intrigued by the Lowther ISIS (called the TP1 since the 50's but ISIS has a newer ring to it). The plans are online, and with 3d cad and cnc capabilities, it might be possible, without a lot of headache.
I'm also intrigued by the concept of front loading as well which the isis utilizes. Although there are better front loading horn implimentations using Azura horn.
Speaking of which, users of these horns have been loading the rear with shorter, higher pass type horns that allow bass and midrange sounds up to 800hz to pass through thereby matching the natural rolloff of the front horn(a limitation a size for the front horn).
They are making claims that the midrange is still not honky or boomy from the rear mouth, which i find surprising, and worth exploring further. But i think these type of horns are designed for the rising response of lowthers, and are kind of pointless for the flat fostex, unless i'm running flea power and need the effiency gains from front loading.
With that said, my brother has been reading in a book about audio engineering the importance of equally loading the forward and rearward motion of the driver. Just rear loading creates an un equal sign wave and creates distortion characteristics. I think this is one of the design considerations where we see some types of front loading especially on older designs from the 50's. Okay, i'm done. Hope that wasn't a thread breaker.
I have been doing a lot of research on the best enclosure, exploring many options. I'm really not interested in a helper woofer. This is what i had for years, and #1, my brain can tell the difference o matter how well i can try and convince myself its integrated with the midrange. #2 i've heard the power and live sound a good horn can make, and i'm hooked (khorns in a large room). #3 i consider this an academic excercise, to see what can be pulled from a single driver. I've been told to not expect or try to get low bass out of small drivers, but I hav read the contrary ( decware corner horn for one).
So right now, I'm most intrigued by the Lowther ISIS (called the TP1 since the 50's but ISIS has a newer ring to it). The plans are online, and with 3d cad and cnc capabilities, it might be possible, without a lot of headache.
I'm also intrigued by the concept of front loading as well which the isis utilizes. Although there are better front loading horn implimentations using Azura horn.
Speaking of which, users of these horns have been loading the rear with shorter, higher pass type horns that allow bass and midrange sounds up to 800hz to pass through thereby matching the natural rolloff of the front horn(a limitation a size for the front horn).
They are making claims that the midrange is still not honky or boomy from the rear mouth, which i find surprising, and worth exploring further. But i think these type of horns are designed for the rising response of lowthers, and are kind of pointless for the flat fostex, unless i'm running flea power and need the effiency gains from front loading.
With that said, my brother has been reading in a book about audio engineering the importance of equally loading the forward and rearward motion of the driver. Just rear loading creates an un equal sign wave and creates distortion characteristics. I think this is one of the design considerations where we see some types of front loading especially on older designs from the 50's. Okay, i'm done. Hope that wasn't a thread breaker.
think of use of BL or compound horn loading this driver as a variation on Hoffman's Iron Law:
pick any two:
deep bass
small enclosure size
efficiency
The K-Horn, Deckert's corner horn and many others are based on using a tight seal to solid boundaries of back wall or corner to complete the final flare of horn mouth. They also require minimum listening distances that might not be attainable in this space.
I keep harping in this point, but if the bay window as pictured is the only location available for this room, I think any such design would be severely compromised, and in the end you might get far more acceptable results with a pair of simpler enclosures, such as MLTLs and perhaps separate woofers.
Horses for courses
pick any two:
deep bass
small enclosure size
efficiency
The K-Horn, Deckert's corner horn and many others are based on using a tight seal to solid boundaries of back wall or corner to complete the final flare of horn mouth. They also require minimum listening distances that might not be attainable in this space.
I keep harping in this point, but if the bay window as pictured is the only location available for this room, I think any such design would be severely compromised, and in the end you might get far more acceptable results with a pair of simpler enclosures, such as MLTLs and perhaps separate woofers.
Horses for courses
I had bought the TP1-Isis drawings long time ago. They were a mess. The good thing was that they were metric the bad thing that measurements was inconsistent. I think they had been in imperial and then they messed up the conversion.
Because the like what ChrisB said, the Isis requires good corner loading, I have been considering a LeScala type bottom bass horn which is less dependant, with a Oris or some sort of front waveguide on top. I'm contemplating a modular design where I can easily unscrew the top off, and change panels and dampening easily, etc. Attached is 2 options. Option A, is a single driver, with folder horn box inside the triangle shape of the lascala. Option B would be just the traditional lescala bottom end, with helper woofer(15"). This will achieve the Khorn bass and dynamics, is simpler to build, but will be difficult to integrate. But again, we've deviated from any hopes of deep bass, unless I can get the horn length lone enough, which I doubt.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Not just the horn length. It needs to have sufficient expansion to provide any LF gain. Note also, the longer the horn, the higher the group delay.
Actually, a La Scala-style bass bin can make deep bass. There are mods to reflex-load the driver at just the right deep frequency so as to actually improve certain aspects of the design (while also providing deep bass). There are several variations on the mod.
But having said all that, I own 4 LaScalas (and a pair of Khorns) and even some drivers similar to the FE163En (166ES-R's) and I really love horns, high efficiency and the Klipsch stuff. But since you're designing from scratch, you might consider the trade-off between form factor and time alignment. The Klipsch folding schemes are really just to compact the horn's bulk, so there is some compromise involved (as with all speakers). If you want time alignment, you can actually just use a ported box (sacrificing some efficiency but simplifying the design and the build).
But having said all that, I own 4 LaScalas (and a pair of Khorns) and even some drivers similar to the FE163En (166ES-R's) and I really love horns, high efficiency and the Klipsch stuff. But since you're designing from scratch, you might consider the trade-off between form factor and time alignment. The Klipsch folding schemes are really just to compact the horn's bulk, so there is some compromise involved (as with all speakers). If you want time alignment, you can actually just use a ported box (sacrificing some efficiency but simplifying the design and the build).
Attachments
I have also read about getting deeper bass from a LaScala by turning the horn into the corner or facing the backwall. So having a separate horn top is a good thing. But the LaScala is really a PA horn so it is not much to expect below 60 Hz. But the slam of a sturdy 15" driver even in a short horn is impressive.
Have you looked at the Side Vivace
Schmacks horn
Better baffle loading then the original Schmacks
Have you looked at the Side Vivace
Schmacks horn
Better baffle loading then the original Schmacks
Got some feedback on a recent Fostex Spec'd Plan Build for the Fe163en-s on another forum.
witchdoctor.co.nz • View topic - Rob's Fostex BLH Build
"The bass extension is rather exceptional considering the 6" driver size and 1mm xmax after running a test tones found they were going into the low 30hz range with good db levels the cabinet is tuned for 22 hz ..
I wouldnt say the bass mates well with any full range driver , but more defines the full range sound , depth and delivery the bass is very well balanced . I am a bass head but I like my bass tight and crisp . The bass delivered is very crisp and clear and helps to define the top end well .
I dont have the space to move the speakers around , my house is far too small 😳 haha
As for damping I used 5mm damping mate on the internal chamber and lined the bottom with polly filling."
Also, I found a Japanese site/company doing amazing things with bent veneers and Fostex drivers. One plan in particular caught my attention:
witchdoctor.co.nz • View topic - Rob's Fostex BLH Build
"The bass extension is rather exceptional considering the 6" driver size and 1mm xmax after running a test tones found they were going into the low 30hz range with good db levels the cabinet is tuned for 22 hz ..
I wouldnt say the bass mates well with any full range driver , but more defines the full range sound , depth and delivery the bass is very well balanced . I am a bass head but I like my bass tight and crisp . The bass delivered is very crisp and clear and helps to define the top end well .
I dont have the space to move the speakers around , my house is far too small 😳 haha
As for damping I used 5mm damping mate on the internal chamber and lined the bottom with polly filling."
Also, I found a Japanese site/company doing amazing things with bent veneers and Fostex drivers. One plan in particular caught my attention:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Hey everyone, I ended up building the recommended plans in the end, and I'm very happy with the result. I have posted a new thread with the build process:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/251294-fostex-fe163en-s-plans-build-thread.html#post3824906
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/251294-fostex-fe163en-s-plans-build-thread.html#post3824906
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