Hows it goin guys? First off, I'm not a complete newb to audio or box building but I want to try and take my skills to the next level by building something a little (maybe alot) more complicated. Here are a few boxes I've built before, mostly ported car audio for teenagers that like the boom...
I have been looking around at some full range speakers and just dont know where to start. I have an Onkyo TX-SR508 A/V receiver that will power whatever I build for now then later down the line I'd like to do some sort of DIY amplifier.
Anyways, to start off with I was going to buy a pair of the Fostex FE103En and build the back loaded horn that they recommend in the manual.
I litterally have no reason for choosing that driver other than price and the fact that there is a box design in the manual. Thats how lost I am when it comes to home audio like this.
I just wanted to make sure that this was an acceptable first project for a newb. I have never heard a quality setup before in my life so I'm sure whatever comes out of these will sound great to me.
I'd like suggestion on what to do differently, maybe different drivers or enclosures. I'll post up some pics of whatever I end up with. I have set myself a spending limit of $100 for the speakers.
Thanks for your time guys...
I have been looking around at some full range speakers and just dont know where to start. I have an Onkyo TX-SR508 A/V receiver that will power whatever I build for now then later down the line I'd like to do some sort of DIY amplifier.
Anyways, to start off with I was going to buy a pair of the Fostex FE103En and build the back loaded horn that they recommend in the manual.
I litterally have no reason for choosing that driver other than price and the fact that there is a box design in the manual. Thats how lost I am when it comes to home audio like this.
I just wanted to make sure that this was an acceptable first project for a newb. I have never heard a quality setup before in my life so I'm sure whatever comes out of these will sound great to me.
I'd like suggestion on what to do differently, maybe different drivers or enclosures. I'll post up some pics of whatever I end up with. I have set myself a spending limit of $100 for the speakers.
Thanks for your time guys...
Hi and welcome 
Very nice job on the routing of the speaker baffle holes in those subs.
I actually have _less_ builds under my belt than you, but they're both of the kind you wish to build now so i'll provide my feedback
Fostex is an excellent choice as a first home audio system, the two speakers i bought both sound very good imho (FE167 and FF85-WK).
I think you could give a shot at the fancier boxes like
I didn't build any of these ( i plan to build a uFonken soon and probably a Half Chili-Chang for my FE167) but these are the design and design sites you see constantly flying around on the forum, and the people behind them are VERY knowledgeable.
EDIT:
I'm not sure how the other members of the forum feel about metal screws in the structure of the boxes, but as far as my minuscule experience goes, in home audio that's a big no no. I see many people here on the forum gluing directly panel to panel, with just weight and pressure keeping the pieces in place while the glue dries. Personally, i use wood plugs to give strength to the whole structure.
The only place i use any kind of metal fixture is the back panel, where i use brass plugs to house heavy duty bolt screws to keep the back panel in place (to make the speaker serviceable). To somewhat smooth out vibrations, i use teflon rings around the bolt and usually glue the brass plug in place with vynil glue to make them as deaf and as coherent to the structure as possible.
Also, you might want to use thick stuff like 18-20 mm panels
Hope i was of help
Very nice job on the routing of the speaker baffle holes in those subs.
I actually have _less_ builds under my belt than you, but they're both of the kind you wish to build now so i'll provide my feedback
Fostex is an excellent choice as a first home audio system, the two speakers i bought both sound very good imho (FE167 and FF85-WK).
I think you could give a shot at the fancier boxes like
- Frugal Horns
- Spawn Enclosure for FE107Particularly, if you feel like upgrading to the 107, you can give a shot at this.
- One of the Fonkens
- Or the Solo103, which was designed especially for the Fostex FE103.
I didn't build any of these ( i plan to build a uFonken soon and probably a Half Chili-Chang for my FE167) but these are the design and design sites you see constantly flying around on the forum, and the people behind them are VERY knowledgeable.
EDIT:
I'm not sure how the other members of the forum feel about metal screws in the structure of the boxes, but as far as my minuscule experience goes, in home audio that's a big no no. I see many people here on the forum gluing directly panel to panel, with just weight and pressure keeping the pieces in place while the glue dries. Personally, i use wood plugs to give strength to the whole structure.
The only place i use any kind of metal fixture is the back panel, where i use brass plugs to house heavy duty bolt screws to keep the back panel in place (to make the speaker serviceable). To somewhat smooth out vibrations, i use teflon rings around the bolt and usually glue the brass plug in place with vynil glue to make them as deaf and as coherent to the structure as possible.
Also, you might want to use thick stuff like 18-20 mm panels
Hope i was of help
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toylo:
a few peso's worth of almost free advice:
ignore Fostex factory "recommended" enclosures - for any given driver there are numerous DIY / free designs widely available that easily outperform them (I've even built a few of them myself)
the FE103E is a sweet little driver, but rather limited in terms of attainable SPL and bass response in any enclosure design, unless assisted by woofer(s)
select a driver / enclosure design based on your room / musical taste/listening habits - even the best of "full-range/ wide band" designs are not for everyone
regardless of selected design there are probably more viewpoints on construction techniques / materials for loudspeakers than you can count on both hands -
keep the change
a few peso's worth of almost free advice:
ignore Fostex factory "recommended" enclosures - for any given driver there are numerous DIY / free designs widely available that easily outperform them (I've even built a few of them myself)
the FE103E is a sweet little driver, but rather limited in terms of attainable SPL and bass response in any enclosure design, unless assisted by woofer(s)
select a driver / enclosure design based on your room / musical taste/listening habits - even the best of "full-range/ wide band" designs are not for everyone
regardless of selected design there are probably more viewpoints on construction techniques / materials for loudspeakers than you can count on both hands -
keep the change
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Ahh if only i'd asked the same question before building them! I could be sitting close to a uFonken and a Half-Chili right now if i did
This year's build will be my last fostex reference design Ahh if only i'd asked the same question before building them! I could be sitting close to a uFonken and a Half-Chili right now if i did
hey, it took us at least 4 factory designs to confirm that to our own ears - and while it's hard for me to believe after the experience, some folks are quite content with them
Hi and welcome
Very nice job on the routing of the speaker baffle holes in those subs.
I actually have _less_ builds under my belt than you, but they're both of the kind you wish to build now so i'll provide my feedback
Fostex is an excellent choice as a first home audio system, the two speakers i bought both sound very good imho (FE167 and FF85-WK).
I think you could give a shot at the fancier boxes like
- Frugal Horns
- Spawn Enclosure for FE107Particularly, if you feel like upgrading to the 107, you can give a shot at this.
- One of the Fonkens
- Or the Solo103, which was designed especially for the Fostex FE103.
I didn't build any of these ( i plan to build a uFonken soon and probably a Half Chili-Chang for my FE167) but these are the design and design sites you see constantly flying around on the forum, and the people behind them are VERY knowledgeable.
Thanks for the complient!
The Spawn and the Solo103 both look like they would be fun. The frugal horn looks a little too complicated for me now, but maybe next time.
Where can I buy the FE107? I seem to be having a hard time finding some of these drivers I see mentioned around the forum.
I would, but I have no idea what would make one speaker or enclosure better than another in a certain room. I was just going to build something and listen to it, then try something else. I figure even something that sounds "bad" to an audiophile is going to sound amazing to me because I don't have the the experience they do.
The room will most likely be the living room which is about 20 foot long and 14 wide with one side open to a kitchen and dining room. The speakers will only be able to be about 8 feet apart due to doors. I sit about 12 feet from the speakers, leaving another 8 foot to the wall behind me. I will be using these for listening to rock, classic rock and the occasional low volume movie. Would rather have them more oriented toward the music though.
FE107 has not been available for a long time.
One thing not mentioned is the drivers synergy with your amplifier.The Fostex are notorious for revileing the warts in your amplification. You might find yourself building your new amp sooner than you expected.
Something that has better synergy with your current amplifier (usually beause of lower efficiency pushing your amp into an area where it sounds better) might be a better 1st project, With your budget, abd sticking with drivers im familiar with perhaps(the broadly similar) CSS EL70 or the new Mark Audio CHP70.3. EL70 has been around longer so there are more proven boxes (here are some), goes lower, and is a bit flatter up top. CHP on the other hand has 3rd generation Mark Audio technology, (the EL70 is 2nd generation tech) so may have somewhat more finesse, and the purposely suppressed top octaves give a more classical FR character.
There is also the CHR70.3 -- the metal cone variant, i mention it last a smy personal preference is for the paper cones.
All of the 3 above run <$80/pr.
The recent skyrocketing of the price of neopdymium has pushed some nice drivers out of your price range. Tangband for instance. Some of their drivers have close to dounbled in price. And even thou they have come back down a bit (likely due to not selling at the higher prices) they are still high.
Another new driver that holds potential is the Fostex FF125wk. It may or may not have the FExxxEn family penchant for showing warts but early audions (in boxes not designed got them) are promising. Its smaller sibling, the FF85wk, is definitly a keeper, but with very limited bass.
dave
One thing not mentioned is the drivers synergy with your amplifier.The Fostex are notorious for revileing the warts in your amplification. You might find yourself building your new amp sooner than you expected.
Something that has better synergy with your current amplifier (usually beause of lower efficiency pushing your amp into an area where it sounds better) might be a better 1st project, With your budget, abd sticking with drivers im familiar with perhaps(the broadly similar) CSS EL70 or the new Mark Audio CHP70.3. EL70 has been around longer so there are more proven boxes (here are some), goes lower, and is a bit flatter up top. CHP on the other hand has 3rd generation Mark Audio technology, (the EL70 is 2nd generation tech) so may have somewhat more finesse, and the purposely suppressed top octaves give a more classical FR character.
There is also the CHR70.3 -- the metal cone variant, i mention it last a smy personal preference is for the paper cones.
All of the 3 above run <$80/pr.
The recent skyrocketing of the price of neopdymium has pushed some nice drivers out of your price range. Tangband for instance. Some of their drivers have close to dounbled in price. And even thou they have come back down a bit (likely due to not selling at the higher prices) they are still high.
Another new driver that holds potential is the Fostex FF125wk. It may or may not have the FExxxEn family penchant for showing warts but early audions (in boxes not designed got them) are promising. Its smaller sibling, the FF85wk, is definitly a keeper, but with very limited bass.
dave
Damn, i'm sorry. I haven't checked before posting.
---
Would the 103 be enough for a room that size?
toylocost,
Dave has mentioned a number of driver choices - given your room size a dual driver design would be probably better - less pressure on the drivers and higher potential SPL. In this regard the Micro Towers can be a design you can look into. Some members have done recent builds and are happy. Folks have built with EL70, and IIRC the new CHP 70 also performs well in that cabinet. The higher ohms of the CHP70 gen 2 should allow for parallel wiring too.
http://homepage.mac.com/tlinespeakers/FAL/downloads/microTower-maps-150909.pdf
The build is also relatively simple.
Dave has mentioned a number of driver choices - given your room size a dual driver design would be probably better - less pressure on the drivers and higher potential SPL. In this regard the Micro Towers can be a design you can look into. Some members have done recent builds and are happy. Folks have built with EL70, and IIRC the new CHP 70 also performs well in that cabinet. The higher ohms of the CHP70 gen 2 should allow for parallel wiring too.
http://homepage.mac.com/tlinespeakers/FAL/downloads/microTower-maps-150909.pdf
The build is also relatively simple.
When we looked at the FE103e we decided that since FE127 was only a couple bucks more we'd work with that... once the 7k peak was dealt with FE193 had no advantages.
Today i would tend to look at the FF1265wk instead of FE103En
dave
for those not familiar with Fostex model line, or Dave's notorious fast and furious fat finger typos - the earlier post should read as corrected above
FWIW, if size is a factor based on what I've recently heard, I'd even take the FF85WK over the FE103E
and shame on me for not jumping on the opportunity before Zia did of suggesting the "castle" MicroTower with either CHP or EL70s for a room your size - as he said, it's a relatively simple build and works very well at filling a big space
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I blame it not on fat fingers, but on decidin in 1970 i would never need to know how to type and taking Grade 11 math instead of Grade 10 typing.
An FF1265 would be interesting... a 50" driver
(gotta add an addition to my listening room). Given that the 31" is pushing $4k, a 50" would decidely be out of the budget range.dave
Well thank you for that post! The EL70 and Windmere combination seem to be peaking my interests.
A dual driver setup would probably be better but I don't want to spend the money on 4 speakers.
Thanks to all you guys for your help, I will probably be ordering the speakers within the next few days then I will post up some pictures when I start building the boxes.
A very very popular (in Europe) first time DIY horn speaker design is the German "Das Viech" ("The Beast") design. I made it together with and for a friend. It uses the very affordable Beyma 8/AGN speaker.
Result are enormous dynamics, and a nice holographic soundstage.
While quite satisfactory for most music, I would recommend to eventually add a super tweeter.
Link with all the info:
Cyburgs-Viech von Berndt Burghard
This page shows the last iteration of the speaker - many have experimented with the best place to add damping in the horn. We did it as on the page, it's the designer's preferred method: black damping sheet (you know, the sheets with all the "mountains", for sound isolation) on the panel behind the driver, and a tight roll of white damping material just below the driver. That worked very well.
Finally, there was a DiyAudio thread on this speaker when it was just designed. Do note that the damping material in the drawing was in the original location, later moved to the tight roll below the driver:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/50153-beyma-8ag-n-horn-viech.html
(EDIT): An addition: it is well known that the Viech works rather well with several loudspeaker drivers, so there is an upgrade path to for example a pair of Fostex FE206En - in which case you'll have to add an extra panel in front as this driver is deeper than the original Beyma.
Result are enormous dynamics, and a nice holographic soundstage.
While quite satisfactory for most music, I would recommend to eventually add a super tweeter.
Link with all the info:
Cyburgs-Viech von Berndt Burghard
This page shows the last iteration of the speaker - many have experimented with the best place to add damping in the horn. We did it as on the page, it's the designer's preferred method: black damping sheet (you know, the sheets with all the "mountains", for sound isolation) on the panel behind the driver, and a tight roll of white damping material just below the driver. That worked very well.
Finally, there was a DiyAudio thread on this speaker when it was just designed. Do note that the damping material in the drawing was in the original location, later moved to the tight roll below the driver:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/50153-beyma-8ag-n-horn-viech.html
(EDIT): An addition: it is well known that the Viech works rather well with several loudspeaker drivers, so there is an upgrade path to for example a pair of Fostex FE206En - in which case you'll have to add an extra panel in front as this driver is deeper than the original Beyma.
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I was wondering the same thing myself - even if you had actually ordered for 2 drivers per cabinet, you can easily wire them in series for an approx 8 ohm net load.
If your concern is running a full HT 5.1 array with 4 ohm wide-band drivers, I can attest that my Denon AVR1601 has yet to have problems with my all-Alpair ( 7 & 6M) set-up.
I didnt think my amp was 4 ohm stable. It says 6 is the lowest in the specs page here...
http://www.onkyousa.com/model.cfm?m=TX-SR508&class=Receiver&p=s
http://www.onkyousa.com/model.cfm?m=TX-SR508&class=Receiver&p=s
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