Hi folks, I've been reading a lot about the Fostex, and different cabinet design. I'm looking to replace my modest bookshelf (PSB Alpha B) with a pair of Fostex.
I have very specific requirements when it comes to tonality. I absolutely HATE shouty/honky/nasal mid range. A slightly recessed mid range is ok as I prefer for the speaker to have expansive soundstage and depth. The last thing I want is to have voices in the face where I have to turn the volume down, hence drowning all the micro details.
What'd be the best driver for me? I've been looking at 166e ad 206e. I'd contemplated BLH but was reading that most horn designs are generally shouty but great with sound stage. I'm leaning towards MLTL since it is easier to construct.
For reference, I much prefer the Sennheiser HD600 (headphones) kind of tonal quality. Am I at the right track with Fostex?
I have very specific requirements when it comes to tonality. I absolutely HATE shouty/honky/nasal mid range. A slightly recessed mid range is ok as I prefer for the speaker to have expansive soundstage and depth. The last thing I want is to have voices in the face where I have to turn the volume down, hence drowning all the micro details.
What'd be the best driver for me? I've been looking at 166e ad 206e. I'd contemplated BLH but was reading that most horn designs are generally shouty but great with sound stage. I'm leaning towards MLTL since it is easier to construct.
For reference, I much prefer the Sennheiser HD600 (headphones) kind of tonal quality. Am I at the right track with Fostex?
kin0kin said:
Not many stock Fostex that fit your criterion (modified ones are another matter entirely)
Budget?
FE103/83/87, FX120, F120A, F200A. None of the ones you've mentioned unless modified considerably (and all those mentioned can be made better too)
I'll let others talk about modded drivers since that is what i make & sell.
dave
kin0kin said:
I'd opine that if you plan on switching between back and forth between the Senns and any Full-range driver, you've set yourself an interesting goal.
Recommending a driver or enclosure type without knowing a bit more about your room/associated equipment/listening tastes and habits is risky business.
Having said that, my first suggestion would be the F120A, in either an MLTL, or if you're up to the challenge, the Planet10 "Fonkensteen" resistively ported design. During a few weeks of living with a pair of these drivers in a custom commissioned design, the only downside I could find is the sensitivity and limited maximum SPL - not for head-bangers.
Second to that would be either the FF165K in BIB or FE167E in Scottmoose's Half Chili or the Planet10 floorstanding Fonken . In a smaller room, the FE127E in any of several designs is my favorite.
I'd imagine it very likely that any of the "xx6" series of Fostex drivers would not be your cup of tea
I'm currently renting and the speakers will be put in the living room. The room is not treated by any means and distance from my TV/speaker would be approximately 8ft away. (fairly nearfield) The room is about 40 ft long. So it's really not an ideal listening area. I have no problems building bass traps, absorption panels, and etc, if need to.
My equipment is very modest for home setup due to the fact that I am currently renting and do not intend to disturb my neighbors. For the same reason, I've been a head-fi for many many years. After testing over 70 headphones, I've decided that the Senns/AKG701 have the tonality that I prefer. That is what I go for when I listen to speakers.a
My source is fed from my htpc, powered by an EMU1212m sound card to my Yamaha HTR6160 receiver (previously to a Benchmark DAC-1). Medias are mostly redbooks and FLACs.
I do plan on picking up the DAC-1 again very soon and it'd be toned down a little with a tube amp of some sort. (recommendation is greatly welcome! *diy please*)
I'm leaning towards the MLTL design, due to the simplicity, small foot print enclosure. But a small footprint BLH can also be considered. I don't listen to music at loud volume at home. It all comes down to tonality, and detail. Wide soundstage and great depth is probably very hard to achieve with my listening area and with small cabinet.
I listen to a wide variety of music. RnB and bass heavy stuff are usually played in the car. High res recordings are usually through my senns. Everything else would go through the speakers. In general I mostly listen to stuff from the 90's *that's when all the good recordings + music were made!* (dire straits, eagles, M.J, Eric clapton, and etc)
As far as budget is concerned, most of them Fostex don't cost too much anyway. I'd say $100 per driver more or less. But since I've never actually listened to any of the Fostex, it'd be best to keep the $$ low, just to get my my toe in the water. Sound, unfortunately, isn't something that's universally agreeable, just like taste in woman.
Most of the fostex have a faily flat curve. My reference curve looks like the attached - recessed midrange.
My equipment is very modest for home setup due to the fact that I am currently renting and do not intend to disturb my neighbors. For the same reason, I've been a head-fi for many many years. After testing over 70 headphones, I've decided that the Senns/AKG701 have the tonality that I prefer. That is what I go for when I listen to speakers.a
My source is fed from my htpc, powered by an EMU1212m sound card to my Yamaha HTR6160 receiver (previously to a Benchmark DAC-1). Medias are mostly redbooks and FLACs.
I do plan on picking up the DAC-1 again very soon and it'd be toned down a little with a tube amp of some sort. (recommendation is greatly welcome! *diy please*)
I'm leaning towards the MLTL design, due to the simplicity, small foot print enclosure. But a small footprint BLH can also be considered. I don't listen to music at loud volume at home. It all comes down to tonality, and detail. Wide soundstage and great depth is probably very hard to achieve with my listening area and with small cabinet.
I listen to a wide variety of music. RnB and bass heavy stuff are usually played in the car. High res recordings are usually through my senns. Everything else would go through the speakers. In general I mostly listen to stuff from the 90's *that's when all the good recordings + music were made!* (dire straits, eagles, M.J, Eric clapton, and etc)
As far as budget is concerned, most of them Fostex don't cost too much anyway. I'd say $100 per driver more or less. But since I've never actually listened to any of the Fostex, it'd be best to keep the $$ low, just to get my my toe in the water. Sound, unfortunately, isn't something that's universally agreeable, just like taste in woman.
Most of the fostex have a faily flat curve. My reference curve looks like the attached - recessed midrange.
planet10 said:
EnABL paints over the problem too - and fixes it!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
G'day kin0kin,
You really should do some reading about EnABL.
Then choose to either buy dave's EN drivers which come with the planet10 mod's plus the full EnABL treatment OR buy Ed's EnABL kit and some Mod Podge and DIY.
While you're deciding why not try some cabinet EnABL with your existing speakers?
Cheers,
Alex
From what I've seen, if you wanted an FR driver based system, I'd be inclined to go with Dave's upgraded P10127eNs in a Fonken or Brynn cabinet. I think you meant the 1970s, rather than the 1990s BTW...
Very, very few FR drivers have a recessed midband (i.e. the trad BBC dip) -that's mostly the province of multiways. So if that's what you desire, you may end up being better off with a more conventional 2 way. The aforementioned upgraded / modified 127s probably get closest -they really don't have much in common sonically with the stock Fostex drivers. Otherwise, you might want to look at one of Zaph's 2 ways or something on those lines.
Very, very few FR drivers have a recessed midband (i.e. the trad BBC dip) -that's mostly the province of multiways. So if that's what you desire, you may end up being better off with a more conventional 2 way. The aforementioned upgraded / modified 127s probably get closest -they really don't have much in common sonically with the stock Fostex drivers. Otherwise, you might want to look at one of Zaph's 2 ways or something on those lines.
Have you looked at Fostex's Sigma drivers? I had the 168E Sigma's for quite a while and really liked them. They are more layed back, but can't really say the mid-range is necessarily recessed. Top end is a touch rolled off, but a very enjoy, listenable sound.
I tried them in both BIBs and OB and liked them in both places. I will say that the qts seemed a bit more than the supplied measurements, once well broken in. Even on OB, the had a decent enough low end.
I had heard them in 1/4 wave folded pipes and was blown away by the low end. Very capable drivers.
I tried them in both BIBs and OB and liked them in both places. I will say that the qts seemed a bit more than the supplied measurements, once well broken in. Even on OB, the had a decent enough low end.
I had heard them in 1/4 wave folded pipes and was blown away by the low end. Very capable drivers.
No I don't hate the SR80. The SR80 is essentially the SR60 with minor upgrades. I use the Koss KSC75 (budget king) in the office all day, and I can live with it without a problem. I've also enjoyed the Etymotic ER4 which many ppl find very bright. I looked at many freq response curve and they do seem to have a very similar sound signature to the grado (on the paper), aggressive, but with less peak on harmonics and less bass.
@Scott,
Well the original recordings were done in the 70s or so but those that I listen to are the unplugged versions from the 90s. I prefer them to the original.
I can't go with BIB/OB/Huge Horn. It has to be something with small foot print. I prefer tower just for aesthetic purpose. If I had to build the Fonken(steen), I'd likely build it like a tower and load the bottom with sand.
I'm contemplating the 127e and fx120. Their response curve look extremely similar with the fx120 a tad brighter on the extreme. Still thinking on the box.
@Scott,
Well the original recordings were done in the 70s or so
but those that I listen to are the unplugged versions from the 90s. I prefer them to the original.I can't go with BIB/OB/Huge Horn. It has to be something with small foot print. I prefer tower just for aesthetic purpose. If I had to build the Fonken(steen), I'd likely build it like a tower and load the bottom with sand.
I'm contemplating the 127e and fx120. Their response curve look extremely similar with the fx120 a tad brighter on the extreme. Still thinking on the box.
Ok I think I've narrowed it down to:
1) 127e in Fonken, built as a tower and sand fill the bottom
2) 127e in Brynn
3) 167e in Fonken-steen, built as a tower and sand fill bottom
4) 167e in half chilli
167 seems to have more peak on 10khz+, I'd imagine that'd make it more lively. What should I go for? (almost there!)
1) 127e in Fonken, built as a tower and sand fill the bottom
2) 127e in Brynn
3) 167e in Fonken-steen, built as a tower and sand fill bottom
4) 167e in half chilli
167 seems to have more peak on 10khz+, I'd imagine that'd make it more lively. What should I go for?
(almost there!)
kin0kin said:
Fostex's published curves are heavily smoothed. FE127e has a 7k peak that really annoys some people. This can mostly be modded out. The FX120 is smoother and i didn't find it any brighter. It doesn't have the downward dynamic range of FE127eN, but is quite a bit better then FE127e. FX120 goes lower too, but at the expense of efficiency.
dave
kin0kin said:Ok I think I've narrowed it down to:
1) 127e in Fonken, built as a tower and sand fill the bottom
2) 127e in Brynn
3) 167e in Fonken-steen, built as a tower and sand fill bottom
4) 167e in half chilli
167 seems to have more peak on 10khz+, I'd imagine that'd make it more lively. What should I go for?
I've had a fair degree of experience with all the designs on the amended short list of :
1) FE127E in 3 models of Fonkens (i.e. "Prime" Floorstanding tower & millie)
2) FE127E in Brynn & Mileva
3) FE167E in floorstanding Fonken ( by the time we got around to these, we ran out of cute names, so just Fonken167 for now)
4) F120A in Fonkensteen
I'd say that the recommendation would be very room dependent. In a small space and with the right amplifier, the F120A would be very hard to beat, (in my case the Wright Sound Mono7 was the charm), but as Dave notes, the full zoot EnABLed FE127E with a nice 3-8 watts of SET is no slug either.
Be advised that any of the "true" Fonkens are not a simple weekend build, while either the Brynn or Half Chili could be - and please use only Baltic Birch or equivalent (Apple Ply, etc) plywood
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