It's hard to find a full ranger that does "air". To date the one driver that came closest is the W3-871s - I actually did a side by side with some 2 way speakers (The ARhc6 which got some pretty good reviews back in the day, as well as a pair of NHT's, can't remember the model) and the highs of the TB were almost as good, the 2 ways had more "air" but the 871s was very close.
Hi everybody,
I also tried TB871 in the needles with the recommended nocth filter and I think they are almost perfect concerning the “air” issue. But (there is always a but
) I felt that part of the music was in a second plane, some what receded from the rest of the music. Never the less, it was one of the fullranges that really convinced me.
One parameter that I think is of the most importance in a fullrange is it’s off axis response. You can get a perfect response on axis. But if the off axis response is not linear (or smoothed rolled off at a high frequency as possible) the perceived balance will not be “linear”. It turns always peaky (or deep) some where in the frequency response. In this matter, there are three important factors to be considered:
- the frequency response of the fullrange it self, on axis and off axis;
- a correct baffle design (dimensions, shape and absorbing material) so that the on and off axis response are as linear as possible mainly in the region of 1 to 4kHz. A correct design will make it easier to implement a notch filter
- the room integration (due to reflections)
Finally, I understand that many of you may have different opinions on the sound quality of the same fullrange. It will always depend on your ears, on your room and the way the fullrange is implemented on its box.
I also tried TB871 in the needles with the recommended nocth filter and I think they are almost perfect concerning the “air” issue. But (there is always a but
) I felt that part of the music was in a second plane, some what receded from the rest of the music. Never the less, it was one of the fullranges that really convinced me. One parameter that I think is of the most importance in a fullrange is it’s off axis response. You can get a perfect response on axis. But if the off axis response is not linear (or smoothed rolled off at a high frequency as possible) the perceived balance will not be “linear”. It turns always peaky (or deep) some where in the frequency response. In this matter, there are three important factors to be considered:
- the frequency response of the fullrange it self, on axis and off axis;
- a correct baffle design (dimensions, shape and absorbing material) so that the on and off axis response are as linear as possible mainly in the region of 1 to 4kHz. A correct design will make it easier to implement a notch filter
- the room integration (due to reflections)
Finally, I understand that many of you may have different opinions on the sound quality of the same fullrange. It will always depend on your ears
, on your room and the way the fullrange is implemented on its box.
flat TB has the best off axis response of all fullrangers on this planet!
and it has magical Ambience, Imaging and Soundstage
I really don't understand why is there almost nothing about them in Forums, I have about 12 Widerangers and those flat cones are among the best, but what they can do- that can no other Wideranger, of course in FAST arrangement(with helper Woofer)
and it has magical Ambience, Imaging and Soundstage
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
I really don't understand why is there almost nothing about them in Forums, I have about 12 Widerangers and those flat cones are among the best, but what they can do- that can no other Wideranger, of course in FAST arrangement(with helper Woofer)
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flat TB has the best off axis response of all fullrangers on this planet!
The graph doesn't really show that. It does show a broad 5+ dB lift from 4-10k and then a shelved down top octave (~ -5dB).
dave
@planet10
the graph shows that on 30 deegre is almost like on axis, look better
and please, if you haven't heard them don't try to make conclusions from the graphs
I will open a new Thread because they deserved it, but I think there is allready a thread about them, I will look
the cone is alu honeymesh(simmilar to the best sounding car woofer Phase Aliante), and MMS is 4gr what in theory can't sound good, but theory and praxis are two different things
grill is for me cheap looking because it's not silver, but that grill has also its function, it behaves like a lens
the graph shows that on 30 deegre is almost like on axis, look better
and please, if you haven't heard them don't try to make conclusions from the graphs
I will open a new Thread because they deserved it, but I think there is allready a thread about them, I will look
the cone is alu honeymesh(simmilar to the best sounding car woofer Phase Aliante), and MMS is 4gr what in theory can't sound good, but theory and praxis are two different things
grill is for me cheap looking because it's not silver, but that grill has also its function, it behaves like a lens
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I'm the last to try to judge a speaker by its graph...but in this case you seemed to be using it as proof of dispersion. Good off axis should mirror the shape of the main curve, but with a gradually increasing gap as you go up in frequency. This off-axis is flatter 30 degrees off than the main, until about 10k then shows some significant ringing.
Here is a nice looking off-axis response. Almost textbook Toole:
The skyrocketing price of neo is pushing these 3" beyond consideration ($95 each), fortunately i got the W5-1611 before the blast off.
dave
lol here's the thread
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/179734-tang-band-w3-1797-s-flat-diaphram-full-range.html
I will add some words later
and I have the A7 also(very very good FR), but NOTHING can come near to those flat TB in what they can do
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/179734-tang-band-w3-1797-s-flat-diaphram-full-range.html
I will add some words later
and I have the A7 also(very very good FR), but NOTHING can come near to those flat TB in what they can do
I think it more likely that it is there for protection like the diamond or ceramic cones... ie won't survive much "fondling". Makes it hard to EnABL them.
dave
Yes maybe for those that haven't heard them
Believe it or not for that money no other Driver can give you that feeling, I was stunned as the first tones came from them
It's a whole new dimension that they throw at you, a new experience(and it's not as the new experience when you try a new FR driver, it's beyond that)
(and all that out of the original package "enclosures" that behave like passive radiators
)PS: I borrowed them to a friend and he refuses to give them back, and he stayed true to the source- made enclosures from a nokia mobile phone packages
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Hi,
Going back to the theme FR88EX. In regard to what I referred on FR89EX and FR88EX I must correct some of my previous sound impressions, mainly on FR88EX.
I installed the FR88EX in a small wide baffle (similar to Martello) with the recommended notch filter (8,2uF//0,33mH//4,7ohm). The sound is almost perfect. One of the best I heard for a fullrange. The top end is a bit “strident” but the overall sound is very very good (with air!). I guess I missed on the filter that I previously used….
In regard to the FR89EX I’m still working on it but I think it has less highs. It is difficult to compare them because they are in different baffle dimension (FR89EX on a bit wider baffle.
Esaú
Going back to the theme FR88EX. In regard to what I referred on FR89EX and FR88EX I must correct some of my previous sound impressions, mainly on FR88EX.
I installed the FR88EX in a small wide baffle (similar to Martello) with the recommended notch filter (8,2uF//0,33mH//4,7ohm). The sound is almost perfect. One of the best I heard for a fullrange. The top end is a bit “strident” but the overall sound is very very good (with air!). I guess I missed on the filter that I previously used….
In regard to the FR89EX I’m still working on it but I think it has less highs. It is difficult to compare them because they are in different baffle dimension (FR89EX on a bit wider baffle.
Esaú
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