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Old 18th October 2017, 02:21 AM   #11
helitim is offline helitim  Canada
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Originally Posted by DF96 View Post
What is a "proven" design? ..... we possibly cannot even agree on that!
Perhaps I used the wrong word. I meant to say working design. As in a schematic that functions in real life. If members prefer AB, A, D, etc. or even if they think that it is a waste of time to study either of these classes, it would be irrelivent to the functions that each component contributed to the overall design of said schematic. In this case, the member could choose to not particiate in the discussion, and perhaps contribute to a learning forum of their own interest.

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Originally Posted by DF96 View Post

.....Some folk would want you to learn and understand Kirchoff's laws (for example). Others would want you to experiment with 'directional cables'. I am not trying to be awkward, but newcomers often think that things are simpler than they are.
I understand where you are coming from, and politely disagree . I believe that discussing schematics in a constructive way is different than taking about magical audiophile components that have no science behind them. Personally, I don't care if someone uses "directional cables" or not, I just want to understand the operation of the circuits they used them in. Wires made from fairy dust coated unicorn farts(patent pending), ASNE, or perhaps regular mil-spec wire provide the same electronics path on paper as far as the schematic is concerned.

All this aside, I personally find books by Bob Cordell, and Douglas Self to be very helpful in this regard. Sometimes however, I find an interactive discussion with more experienced members helps to clarify questions and concerns. If it wasn't for this forum, I wouldn't even have access to anybody envloved in audio (I live in a small town).

The absolute worst case scenario here is that it won't work, and will end up being the same as it already is. I believe its worth the gamble.

Last edited by helitim; 18th October 2017 at 02:23 AM.
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Old 18th October 2017, 09:39 AM   #12
DF96 is offline DF96  England
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You will find that some people cannot discuss a circuit sensibly:
"Feedback smears the sound"
"Degeneration is not feedback"
"An emitter follower does not use feedback"
"The coupling cap must be Brand X for transparent sound; the value does not matter too much, which is fortunate as I have no clue how to calculate it"

You seem to be asking for a forum area where circuits can be discussed sensibly without all the noise from those who do not understand circuits but regard their own ignorance as being a more advanced form of wisdom. I don't know how this can be policed without fundamentally changing the nature of the forum.
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Old 18th October 2017, 12:11 PM   #13
helitim is offline helitim  Canada
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Originally Posted by DF96 View Post
You seem to be asking for a forum area where circuits can be discussed sensibly without all the noise from those who do not understand circuits but regard their own ignorance as being a more advanced form of wisdom. I don't know how this can be policed without fundamentally changing the nature of the forum.
I think we agree on the problem for the most part. Although to be completely fair, I would subscribe to other points of view if people with "really good ears" could back up what they hear on a regular basis via double blind type study. We unfortunately live in a culture of "fake news" and "bogus science" . Of course throughout history there are a lot of examples of people validating false theories that they truly believed in out of stubbornness or pride.

One way, although perhaps not the best way to avoid these type of destructive conversations, could be to have rules for this theoretical sub-forum stating that the discussion is to be kept to the operation of circuit itself, and how it functions in its basic form and not about brands, etc.
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Old 18th October 2017, 01:52 PM   #14
traderbam is offline traderbam  Europe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by helitim View Post
I personally think it would be a great exercise/ learning opportunity if there was a thread, or thread section where we could discuss in detail; schematics and diagrams for various audio components. For example, a very basic audio amplifer circuit. As members learn, we could get into more advanced circuits and systems. Alot of people find it difficult reading schematics, and this could help in that regard. Personally I spend alot of time reading schematics at work, but I sometimes have difficulty with some of the more advanced designs on this webiste. The discussions could include "talking through the schematic" from the POV of the signal, or voltage, etc.
Good idea.

Quote:
This would of course be very dependent on experienced members or moderators overseeing the quality of the discussion,...
What specifically would you want the moderators/editors to achieve with regard to quality of information? Currently, there is no such moderation in the main forum, AFAIK.
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Old 18th October 2017, 06:25 PM   #15
helitim is offline helitim  Canada
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Originally Posted by traderbam View Post
What specifically would you want the moderators/editors to achieve with regard to quality of information? Currently, there is no such moderation in the main forum, AFAIK.
Sometimes good ideas get overlooked, or missed because of various communication differences. For example, sometimes new learners could be seen as being lazy, when they are actually just overwhelmed with new conflicting ideas.

If the forum set aside a specific area where these questions were openly encouraged and discussed it may allow for a positive and forgiving environment, and free up these types of questions that take away from other threads specific to a particular project.

I've basically suggested a specific, organized environment(thread/s) for learning different circuits, topologies, etc. in detail. Without having to sift through radical ideas or information that is not specific to the function of the circuit. For example, If I wanted to learn about a differential input, I could simply post a schematic and ask questions about it (in the learning area of course), and anyone willing to help me understand the circuit could join in And Contribute to the discussion. The biggest problem I see, would be how to organize these discussions so that new users could find them rather then reposting the same circuit. I could suggest a tree/ ladder style menu system, but that's just one idea.

I like Jason's idea of a DIY Audio "University" platform, because a new learner could read the topics in a sequential order that makes sense for learning. Perhaps at the end of a topic, there could be a place to post schematics and discuss them(relevant to the topic that was covered in that section). This obviously is a huge project to accomplish.

Just a few thoughts.
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Old 2nd December 2017, 09:18 AM   #16
traderbam is offline traderbam  Europe
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Those are good ideas and I have a few of my own. Unfortunately, there appears to be little appetite from Jason to move this forward. It’s been 6 weeks since I messaged him.

I wonder whether this forum is the best place anyhow. It is a commercially funded forum with a structure that facilitates building things and selling stuff. Is a training college hosted by a bazaar ever going to work?

Wikipedia may be a better model: no egos, no personal attributions, no selling or advertising.
I fully support your desire to educate and, in my own way, I do a little of it here.
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Old 2nd December 2017, 10:50 PM   #17
Jason is offline Jason  Australia
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Plenty of appetite, but no time.

Several months ago I realized I was not making any progress on diyAudio development. All my time each day is consumed by administrative tasks across diyAudio, diyAudio store, and another business I run. As my mentor Jim Rohn says "If you will change then everything will change, if you won't change nothing's going to change".

In addition to having all my time consumed by admin, there is an addition drain associated with the kind of focus you have when working on 3 projects (actually 3.5). It's become clear to me (based on feedback from other people / mentors) that I have to focus on one thing in order to achieve great things.

To this end, I've identified clearly that I need to remove myself from admin tasks by creating processes and hiring admin help and soon directorial help so I can have razor sharp focus on diyAudio. I've found a great co-working space to base myself in, and just now I've just woken up after three 20 hour days moving apartment (and that was the easy part - the hard part in my city is finding something to rent). Still got a day to go to finish the move, but then my focus is 100% on freeing up my time to be able to implement these kinds of goals you're suggesting. Who knows if it will work but I believe that if you don't risk much, you'll never get much.

I admit that over the past few years I have been overly conservative with my approach to diyAudio (and the store, and my other business), and that has resulted in me taking on more and more work, everything has grown organically in size and admin requirements, I've been consumed by admin-land, turning the wheels of the machine and not really getting anywhere fast. For some members, they've enjoyed things "staying the same" but for me personally it has been very frustrating.

In regards to timing, I would expect at least to be waiting 3 months for "diyAudio university" to get started, or even a serious implementation discussion to get going. There's significant work to be done before that, including moving to XenForo.
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Old 2nd December 2017, 10:55 PM   #18
TonyTecson is offline TonyTecson  Philippines
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reading thru the posts of PRR alone taught me a lot about tube amps....
i think that we have already in place a good body of knowledge about things...
it is for learners to go thru all of them and discern what is trash and what is good learning...
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Old 2nd December 2017, 11:05 PM   #19
Jason is offline Jason  Australia
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Recently I have been using Confluence a lot. It's a brilliant wiki / documentation platform. Would love to speak to Atlassian about trying to organize an affordable license for diyAudio. I'm sure we could do a petition
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Old 3rd December 2017, 09:38 AM   #20
Dude111 is offline Dude111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason
Establishing a "diyAudio University" kind of thing is already on the roadmap and we're in the process right now of evaluating how we can best get that in place.
An excellent idea mate....... This is a GOOD site now,why not make it better??

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