I want to build a Thermopile to generate usable electricity with a heat source, like a small fire or something,
I can build something like this but, I only get 1 mA and an ant of a volt. And it subjected to 1700C blow torch, it sucks.
So does anyone have some info about that, would be nice, to light a candle and then your able to watch a DVD
I can build something like this but, I only get 1 mA and an ant of a volt. And it subjected to 1700C blow torch, it sucks.
So does anyone have some info about that, would be nice, to light a candle and then your able to watch a DVD
Jacques, please do some research, and read up on the laws of thermodynamics. This is, in principle, no different to any of your questions from your other threads.
Here is a good place to start.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_of_thermodynamics
Here is a good place to start.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_of_thermodynamics
And just so I don't seem totally negative, here is your best bet for getting energy from heat.
Yip, thanks pinkmouse, I’ve already checked out Laws of thermodynamics and also have tried to build a Stirling engine, but did not work so nice, I’m looking something more into solid state device and for something with a high wattage output.
How I see it, it sucks up a lot of watts to heat up n heating element, say like 1000W heater. But if you apply 1000W heat source to some thermocouples, you will newer get that 1000W back, I belief if you can covert something to another thing, then you can surely convert it back with at least 100% back in theory, but mostly we strive near
How I see it, it sucks up a lot of watts to heat up n heating element, say like 1000W heater. But if you apply 1000W heat source to some thermocouples, you will newer get that 1000W back, I belief if you can covert something to another thing, then you can surely convert it back with at least 100% back in theory, but mostly we strive near
[geeky, boring scientist mode]
Thermocouple power sources are horrendoulsy inefficient- about 10%. Therefore, you cannot get 'at least 100% back'. Not possible. The thermo couple is a heat engine:
____________
| Heat Source|
_____|_______
(Heat engine)-------> |useful work|
_____|___
|Heat sink|
(I apologise at my first attempt at ASCII drawing)
The heat energy moves from the heat source through the heat engine, where it produces useful work, and then the waste energy goes to the heat sink.
In a perfect heat engine, once the useful work is produced, there are no more losses, but in practice this is not the case (E.g. friction in an Internal Combustion Engine (ICE)).
The maximum theoretical effiecency of a 'perfect heat engine' is:
1- Temperature of 'heat sink'
__ Temperature of heat source.
All temperatures for this formula must be in Kelvin, not F or C.
To increase the output of the thermocouple, increase the area of the junction between the dissimilar metals, heat the hot end more and cool the 'cold' side (one metal on each 'side'). The first will increase the amount of electricity, but not the efficiency, the second two will improve the efficiency.
The Stirling engine is a more complex bit of kit, but can be significantly more efficeient (e.g. 20-30% or more).
However, running your TV and DVD player from a candle just isn't going to happen. Not possible. There is just not enough power from the flame (approx 40 watts, so using a realistic 5% thermocouple, you get 2 watts of electricity).
It would be lovely to convert energy from one form to another very efficiently, but it is extremely difficult. It is easier and more efficient to go from a 'high level' energy type (Electricity) to a low form (heat, light) than it is to go the other way. This is because to go from heat to another form of energy, you have to make use of a heat engine (see above)- you can't just heat a wire and expect electricity.
The best heat engines of today- multi-stage steam turbines in power stations and 'Cathedral Diesels' (Huge, 15M tall, 50-100rpm ship diesels) work at about 50% efficiency.
[/geeky, boring scientist mode]
If you want 'clean' electricity and heat, then grow your own wood (e.g. short rotation willow coppice), and then use a wood gasifier. You can then use the wood gas to run a stirling engine or even an ICE to produce electricity. The waste heat from the engine's 'cold' side (exhaust, cooled end of Stirling or thermocouple) can then be used for domestic heating. There is a lot of work involved though.
James
Thermocouple power sources are horrendoulsy inefficient- about 10%. Therefore, you cannot get 'at least 100% back'. Not possible. The thermo couple is a heat engine:
____________
| Heat Source|
_____|_______
(Heat engine)-------> |useful work|
_____|___
|Heat sink|
(I apologise at my first attempt at ASCII drawing)
The heat energy moves from the heat source through the heat engine, where it produces useful work, and then the waste energy goes to the heat sink.
In a perfect heat engine, once the useful work is produced, there are no more losses, but in practice this is not the case (E.g. friction in an Internal Combustion Engine (ICE)).
The maximum theoretical effiecency of a 'perfect heat engine' is:
1- Temperature of 'heat sink'
__ Temperature of heat source.
All temperatures for this formula must be in Kelvin, not F or C.
To increase the output of the thermocouple, increase the area of the junction between the dissimilar metals, heat the hot end more and cool the 'cold' side (one metal on each 'side'). The first will increase the amount of electricity, but not the efficiency, the second two will improve the efficiency.
The Stirling engine is a more complex bit of kit, but can be significantly more efficeient (e.g. 20-30% or more).
However, running your TV and DVD player from a candle just isn't going to happen. Not possible. There is just not enough power from the flame (approx 40 watts, so using a realistic 5% thermocouple, you get 2 watts of electricity).
It would be lovely to convert energy from one form to another very efficiently, but it is extremely difficult. It is easier and more efficient to go from a 'high level' energy type (Electricity) to a low form (heat, light) than it is to go the other way. This is because to go from heat to another form of energy, you have to make use of a heat engine (see above)- you can't just heat a wire and expect electricity.
The best heat engines of today- multi-stage steam turbines in power stations and 'Cathedral Diesels' (Huge, 15M tall, 50-100rpm ship diesels) work at about 50% efficiency.
[/geeky, boring scientist mode]
If you want 'clean' electricity and heat, then grow your own wood (e.g. short rotation willow coppice), and then use a wood gasifier. You can then use the wood gas to run a stirling engine or even an ICE to produce electricity. The waste heat from the engine's 'cold' side (exhaust, cooled end of Stirling or thermocouple) can then be used for domestic heating. There is a lot of work involved though.
James
I think Jacques needs to tap into an otherwise wasted power source. Like water running down a drain or downspout or the heat that goes up the flue of a gas heater or little children and pets on a treadmill or something that gives infinite return as it is otherwise wasted. So far he has only requested the holy grail.
How many thousands of trained, skilled and forethinking individuals do you think are looking for the same thing right now? Jacques, if the things you are looking for existed, do you really think you'd find those ideas here? For free?
Shake thy head man.
How many thousands of trained, skilled and forethinking individuals do you think are looking for the same thing right now? Jacques, if the things you are looking for existed, do you really think you'd find those ideas here? For free?
Shake thy head man.
I_Forgot said:
Inverse square law (go twice the distance from the sun, get a quarter the power per square inch) kicks in with a vengeance past the orbit of Mars, plus it also works against you for radio transmitters.
Jupiter is a bit more than five times Earth's distance from the sun, so you get about 4% of solar power available here. It's worse for Saturn. Forget Uranus, and at Neptune the sun is merely a very bright star.
I’m getting the idea NASA already solve the problem with thermocouples, because they have some clever people working at high peak and getting big pays to solve this kind of problems, 5% efficient for heat to electricity is just crap, useless
I know in today’s life, we are all generating electricity from motion, via alternators and spinning rotors, but one of the nice thing are starting to get popular, sonar energy, solid state, that’s nice man. It’s starting to get more efficient with our new technology in progress.
Your right man, I probably won’t find a thing, what will give me more that 1 mA at 1700C, but maybe, you never know, just maybe someone founds the right thing, and decides to share it with us, that would be nice but not impossible.
The Nasa thermocouples have the benefit of having an extremely low external temperature- about 3K. Also, they are inefficient, but they don't provide a lot of energy.
If you read my post, you will see that i suggest that you increase the surface area of your thermocouple, and cool one side of it to increase the output.
james
If you read my post, you will see that i suggest that you increase the surface area of your thermocouple, and cool one side of it to increase the output.
james
" increase the surface area of your thermocouple, and cool one side of it to increase the output. "
Yip, like adding a heat sink to the one side and a flame to the other side, that’s my plan.
" The Nasa thermocouples have the benefit of having an extremely low external temperature- about 3K "
So how can I be able to make one end freeze by only using electricity ? I’ve seen a example on a “Peltier effect” CPU cooler, it uses electricity to cool down something, without any vacuum pump and some condensers and all the necessary stuff. And it’s just a flat piece of white pad that freezes. Weird, can I make something like that, it can also be used to reverse the effect
Yip, like adding a heat sink to the one side and a flame to the other side, that’s my plan.
" The Nasa thermocouples have the benefit of having an extremely low external temperature- about 3K "
So how can I be able to make one end freeze by only using electricity ? I’ve seen a example on a “Peltier effect” CPU cooler, it uses electricity to cool down something, without any vacuum pump and some condensers and all the necessary stuff. And it’s just a flat piece of white pad that freezes. Weird, can I make something like that, it can also be used to reverse the effect
It's called the Seebeck effect, and so yes, Peltier coolers do work in reverse. Fit a heatsink one side and warm the other, it'll be more efficient than your DIY attempt - but still pretty poor.
PS don't apply your blowtorch to a peltier in the hope of vast amounts of power... al the brazed joints will fall apart.
PS don't apply your blowtorch to a peltier in the hope of vast amounts of power... al the brazed joints will fall apart.
I must first get a peltier device but, Yes, I know, It will be pretty much screw it up if I do it.
I’ve got no idea how a peltier works inside and will like to build one, if it’s possible?
2 peltier devices, connected back to back, it could be nice to see what happens, one takes heat and the other one makes heat or cool again, it’s must be 100% efficient to get the best result of course, and it’s using only wires to transfer the heat, it would be interesting, to play around with it.
I’ve got no idea how a peltier works inside and will like to build one, if it’s possible?
2 peltier devices, connected back to back, it could be nice to see what happens, one takes heat and the other one makes heat or cool again, it’s must be 100% efficient to get the best result of course, and it’s using only wires to transfer the heat, it would be interesting, to play around with it.
I think I have seen this around before, so I'm sure I'm not sharing anything new with you, but have you thought about building yourself a free engergy device. Lots of Tesla's idea's work to a point, they just aren't that practical, and I have seen plans for some of his free engergy devices around before. We built one in school once, the device was essentially as tall as the school, and only gave us a few ma of current and a couple of volts, but hey, it was free. We were able to power an LED with it.
He also had a design for a pump which used the natural adhesion of water on a surface to create the necassary friction to move water along. It had a long series of smooth plates at a slight angle, and was able to move water or I believe gases with much better efficiency that most current designs. I remember reading about a group trying to market a modern manufactured version not that long ago, and they had built a very effecient generator from one as well.
He also had a design for a pump which used the natural adhesion of water on a surface to create the necassary friction to move water along. It had a long series of smooth plates at a slight angle, and was able to move water or I believe gases with much better efficiency that most current designs. I remember reading about a group trying to market a modern manufactured version not that long ago, and they had built a very effecient generator from one as well.
I’ve already tried to built a dozen but nothing works, so I want to built something that can work, and I don’t know any tesla workable devices, besides the telsa turbine, it’s just a turbine
“We built one in school once, the device was essentially as tall as the school, and only gave us a few ma of current and a couple of volts, but hey, it was free”
I would be glad, if you can give me some info how you made that device at that school project.?
Lol. “the device was essentially as tall as the school” for real ?
The only free energy I can get, will be to nick someone car battery
“We built one in school once, the device was essentially as tall as the school, and only gave us a few ma of current and a couple of volts, but hey, it was free”
I would be glad, if you can give me some info how you made that device at that school project.?
Lol. “the device was essentially as tall as the school” for real ?
The only free energy I can get, will be to nick someone car battery
jacquesl-
I don't mean to offend, but if you really want to get off the grid..in this lifetime..you need to start looking at what has already been tried..and failed. Nothing is free, and using all your energy chasing "pie in the sky" technoligies is great fun, as far as mental masturbation goes, but isn't going to get you any practical results any time soon.
Don't get me wrong, there are alternatives, but the ones you've been chasing have already been chased for a long time, by a lot of people. Of all the options I looked at (and I spent the better part of 10 years looking while I lived in the Cascade mountains),a little known invention by Wally Mento was the best option for a low tech, DIY option. Check it out...
http://amasci.com/freenrg/minto.html
-Casey
I don't mean to offend, but if you really want to get off the grid..in this lifetime..you need to start looking at what has already been tried..and failed. Nothing is free, and using all your energy chasing "pie in the sky" technoligies is great fun, as far as mental masturbation goes, but isn't going to get you any practical results any time soon.
Don't get me wrong, there are alternatives, but the ones you've been chasing have already been chased for a long time, by a lot of people. Of all the options I looked at (and I spent the better part of 10 years looking while I lived in the Cascade mountains),a little known invention by Wally Mento was the best option for a low tech, DIY option. Check it out...
http://amasci.com/freenrg/minto.html
-Casey
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