I pay $20 a month for tidal hifi and haven’t played a cd for 2 yrs now, there’s only a few cd’s in my collection that can’t be found on there. And the new music shows up the same day it drops!
Qobuz is another one on the same level, I haven’t tried it yet but I’d like to.
It’s always good to back up your collection but it’s really almost redundant at this point in time.
Qobuz is another one on the same level, I haven’t tried it yet but I’d like to.
It’s always good to back up your collection but it’s really almost redundant at this point in time.
Qobuz (IMO) is a wonderful service. However, their catalog of the music I like (generally, US Classic Rock) is much more limited than Tidal's when comparing US to US subscriptions. Qobuz through a UK subscription (although costing more) has a larger catalog of the music I like.
The only thing I have found with Tidal that I don't care for... is the SQ on SOME songs. This has been rumored to be due to some sort of digital watermarking that I can't even begin to comprehend. However, there are a very few tracks I've found that have a "warble" or other weird things that just aren't present in songs from my own ripped library or other streaming services. Is it enough to worry me or keep me away from it... no... am I curious... yes. Also Tidal's interface (if you use their comparative apps) is much better than Qobuz, IMO. Either way, give Qobuz a shot. They usually have a free trial.
The only thing I have found with Tidal that I don't care for... is the SQ on SOME songs. This has been rumored to be due to some sort of digital watermarking that I can't even begin to comprehend. However, there are a very few tracks I've found that have a "warble" or other weird things that just aren't present in songs from my own ripped library or other streaming services. Is it enough to worry me or keep me away from it... no... am I curious... yes. Also Tidal's interface (if you use their comparative apps) is much better than Qobuz, IMO. Either way, give Qobuz a shot. They usually have a free trial.
You had mentioned earlier in the thread that you may want to digitize your analog collection. That's generally more challenging than ripping CDs (digital to digital).
No, you don't have to re-buy your music. However, if you use a streaming service, you may find it worth your while in time vs. money vs. quality. As soldermizer said though - if those services don't have the old mix tape you made back in the day, and you want it preserved or that super-rare cut you love on LP... you're outta luck.
Have fun! You've started an awesome conversation.
I suppose the first step would be to rip the CD collection to WAV. Once you have WAV files, you'll decide later if you want to play with compression.
One of the ways to stream your freshly ripped CD collection is to use a laptop.
If you want to build a DAC, try to decide if you like R-2R sound (and maybe NOS approach), or you want to go multibit.
There are still options to build the 1704-based DAC's with the corresponding glue-logic to use them with I2S.
Or, you can get the DDDAC motherboard and few DAC decks. Even better, you can still get the WaverI/O boards that will allow you to stream your ripped collection using the laptop USB connector and have that signal converted to I2S by WaveI/O XMOS. Lorain can even build one board for you using a very low phase noise oscillators (SDA's).
When playing the music on the laptop, try to force the CPU to work at the lowest possible frequency.
WaveI/O board has the isolator onboard.
This will get you going nicely, and you'll be able to play with various options (and power supplies
) for a year or so... which could be just what the doctor prescribed during these worrying times."When playing the music on the laptop, try to force the CPU to work at the lowest possible frequency."
WHY is that?
"If you want to build a DAC, try to decide if you like R-2R sound (and maybe NOS approach), or you want to go multibit."
How do I determine that? What's the difference? Is one more $$$ than the other?
WHY is that?
"If you want to build a DAC, try to decide if you like R-2R sound (and maybe NOS approach), or you want to go multibit."
How do I determine that? What's the difference? Is one more $$$ than the other?
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Digital reproduction requires switching, unfortunately. That switching is the enemy No1 in digital audio reproduction. It all comes down to how successfully can that switching noise be controlled (and how cleanly can that digital stream be sampled in the time domain); however, prevention is the best cure. With a decently resolving system, it can be easily noticed that the sound will appear more natural and relaxed if the CPU is forced to work at its minimal possible running frequency.
Re: the sound of different DAC chips... that is highly individual... there are websites where the members make the decision on spending thousands of dollars purely based on measurements alone.... not gonna comment... try to listen to different DAC's and arrive at your own decision. You may even like 1541 properly implemented... (I did!).
Re: the sound of different DAC chips... that is highly individual... there are websites where the members make the decision on spending thousands of dollars purely based on measurements alone.... not gonna comment... try to listen to different DAC's and arrive at your own decision. You may even like 1541 properly implemented... (I did!).
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I am most interested in HIGH-fidelity music (rather than accessibility and variety). So, what would be your recommended chain of reproducing music given a restricted budget (most bang for the buck).
@ Francois
The cheapest solution would be to buy a used Squeezebox, like this:
Logitech Squeezebox (Classic, C-RH62) | eBay
This gives you access to internet-radio, and your own ripped music in the quality of your choice, using the free software available for your computer or NAS:
My Media - Welcome to mysqueezebox.com!
If you should chose to improve the sound quality at a later stage, the Squeezebox has both optical and SPDIF -out, so you can connect a better DAC of your liking.
I have been using this for ages, and it still works perfect with my old Threshold gear!
The cheapest solution would be to buy a used Squeezebox, like this:
Logitech Squeezebox (Classic, C-RH62) | eBay
This gives you access to internet-radio, and your own ripped music in the quality of your choice, using the free software available for your computer or NAS:
My Media - Welcome to mysqueezebox.com!
If you should chose to improve the sound quality at a later stage, the Squeezebox has both optical and SPDIF -out, so you can connect a better DAC of your liking.
I have been using this for ages, and it still works perfect with my old Threshold gear!
This is not how the mechanism of digital audio streaming or reproduction functions.
Indiglo, +1. I spit my tea a bit.
Francois G - A bit more information from your side would help tremendously.
I know your question was directed at Extreme_Boky, but given some of their answers, I can't help but chime in. If you only want that opinion, you can ignore below.
"Bang for buck" is really hard. As with all things audio, IMO, things start reaching diminishing returns pretty quickly. If you'd be willing to share:
1) Not to be gauche, but do you have a preferred short term / longer term budget you'd be willing to share? If you are against paying a monthly fee for any streaming service, I totally understand. However, it would be very helpful to know if you see that as a current need or plausible future option.
2) What gear do you have that could potentially be repurposed or be used in combination?
3) Preferences
4) What pre-amp or other component will you be using? Must the streaming device connected to your equipment have balanced outputs? Is that a preference?
5) Music and metadata cataloging
If you can help us with prioritizing what's important to you, we can make some more meaningful recommendations getting you closer to a solution you'll enjoy. As you've seen, there are a plethora of options for different budgets, needs, and tastes.
Others will surely chime in with things they've run across. That list is only from my experiences and making different choices as new software and hardware became known to me along with my own needs and preferences changing over time. I'll summarize it this way... my current streaming system sounds as good or better TO ME and has far more capability at a 10th of the budget I allocated over 15 years ago. The difference in "Sound Quality" has been from playing with different DACs and using their capabilities. The "Fidelity" on the digital side to me is entirely irrelevant at this point and in this day and age when streaming using FLACs ripped carefully from CDs and comparing to the original CD from whence it was ripped. Yes, there are things to consider, but IMO, you can achieve a very nice streaming option for less than the original retail price of a quality CD player from the 80's or 90s or lower.
One experience...
My brother has a reputable/older CD player with a tube output stage. That's his preference, and he likes the "warm tone closer to vinyl" that it gave when comparing to his TT rig. He originally hated CDs and is still a vinyl junky, but he loves that CD player. Parts for that CD player are becoming scarce, and he wanted to reduce its use. He was unconvinced that any streaming could approach the sound, a skeptic.
At my urging, several years ago, he ripped a small portion of his CDs to ALAC. We tried running iTunes out of an old Mac Mini he already had directly connected through the analog output of the Mac Mini into his pre-amp. As many would imagine, he was nonplussed with the sound, but he did like the convenience.
We then simply took the digital output from the MacMini into what I'd consider a very nice DAC for it's price. I also knew a bit of the sound he was trying to achieve. We then ran the analog output of the DAC into a tube buffer and into the pre-amp. With (definitely not scientifically rigorous) blind A/B testing and level matching to the best of our ability (using a phone app) - we both could discern the CD player from the streaming setup. Me being ever the skeptic also, I intentionally then ran the streaming set up at a slightly lower dB than the CD player just for another round. The streaming setup was the preferred sound to both of us in both cases using 10 selected portions of music each. Total out of pocket budget ... $400 or so. However, he also had the Mac Mini, and all the networking and storage in place. Is it in any way "ideal" or "optimized" - No. It's what HE likes at a budget that worked for me to provide it as a gift. We then subbed out Qobuz (using Audirvana as an interface / playback software) for his ripped CDs and listened to the same 10 selections blindly. Neither of us could discern the difference.
Hope you're having some fun.
Francois G - A bit more information from your side would help tremendously.
I know your question was directed at Extreme_Boky, but given some of their answers, I can't help but chime in. If you only want that opinion, you can ignore below.
"Bang for buck" is really hard. As with all things audio, IMO, things start reaching diminishing returns pretty quickly. If you'd be willing to share:
1) Not to be gauche, but do you have a preferred short term / longer term budget you'd be willing to share? If you are against paying a monthly fee for any streaming service, I totally understand. However, it would be very helpful to know if you see that as a current need or plausible future option.
2) What gear do you have that could potentially be repurposed or be used in combination?
a. Desktop / Laptop - OS (or preference of OS)
b. Storage? Is it network addressable?
c. Controller? Do you want to use a phone / tablet? Monitor and/or Keyboard?
d. Do you have hardwired cabling and/or decent WiFi close by your stereo?
e. Do you have any type of older streaming device around? An old Chromecast or AppleTV?
b. Storage? Is it network addressable?
c. Controller? Do you want to use a phone / tablet? Monitor and/or Keyboard?
d. Do you have hardwired cabling and/or decent WiFi close by your stereo?
e. Do you have any type of older streaming device around? An old Chromecast or AppleTV?
3) Preferences
a. Do you need or see the future need for multiple zones?
b. Size requirements - Do you want a computer or laptop of any kind directly connected to your stereo or would a much smaller device (<6" x 6" x 6") be more to your liking?
c. Would the device near your stereo need to have a display or any controls for playback?
d. You emphasize "HIGH Fidelity". If we are going for true fidelity vs. some other ambiguous definition of sound quality - believe it or not, that makes it easier. It's been proven time and again that streaming can be at least equal in fidelity to playback from a CD player without going to any tough measure. No issues there. It may be the most challenging mental block to get past, but technically, that problem is solved to my satisfaction. It's over, and done. I won't get into comparing digital to analog sources. Different topic altogether and one that's oft debated / discussed.
b. Size requirements - Do you want a computer or laptop of any kind directly connected to your stereo or would a much smaller device (<6" x 6" x 6") be more to your liking?
c. Would the device near your stereo need to have a display or any controls for playback?
d. You emphasize "HIGH Fidelity". If we are going for true fidelity vs. some other ambiguous definition of sound quality - believe it or not, that makes it easier. It's been proven time and again that streaming can be at least equal in fidelity to playback from a CD player without going to any tough measure. No issues there. It may be the most challenging mental block to get past, but technically, that problem is solved to my satisfaction. It's over, and done. I won't get into comparing digital to analog sources. Different topic altogether and one that's oft debated / discussed.
4) What pre-amp or other component will you be using? Must the streaming device connected to your equipment have balanced outputs? Is that a preference?
5) Music and metadata cataloging
a. How big a collection? 100s, 1000s, 10s of thousands?
b. Any classical music you care deeply about? I ask this because of what's called "gapless playback". Also, there can be some challenges (not impossible or even difficult to overcome, but they need mentioning) with obtaining and maintaining proper metadata and artwork if that's important to you. Even with music that is not classical, I have several albums where tracks should run seamlessly into each other in order to not "break the experience". As examples - Load Out should run seamlessly into Stay... The entire Dark Side of the Moon album should play with no pauses etc. etc.
b. Any classical music you care deeply about? I ask this because of what's called "gapless playback". Also, there can be some challenges (not impossible or even difficult to overcome, but they need mentioning) with obtaining and maintaining proper metadata and artwork if that's important to you. Even with music that is not classical, I have several albums where tracks should run seamlessly into each other in order to not "break the experience". As examples - Load Out should run seamlessly into Stay... The entire Dark Side of the Moon album should play with no pauses etc. etc.
If you can help us with prioritizing what's important to you, we can make some more meaningful recommendations getting you closer to a solution you'll enjoy. As you've seen, there are a plethora of options for different budgets, needs, and tastes.
Others will surely chime in with things they've run across. That list is only from my experiences and making different choices as new software and hardware became known to me along with my own needs and preferences changing over time. I'll summarize it this way... my current streaming system sounds as good or better TO ME and has far more capability at a 10th of the budget I allocated over 15 years ago. The difference in "Sound Quality" has been from playing with different DACs and using their capabilities. The "Fidelity" on the digital side to me is entirely irrelevant at this point and in this day and age when streaming using FLACs ripped carefully from CDs and comparing to the original CD from whence it was ripped. Yes, there are things to consider, but IMO, you can achieve a very nice streaming option for less than the original retail price of a quality CD player from the 80's or 90s or lower.
One experience...
My brother has a reputable/older CD player with a tube output stage. That's his preference, and he likes the "warm tone closer to vinyl" that it gave when comparing to his TT rig. He originally hated CDs and is still a vinyl junky, but he loves that CD player. Parts for that CD player are becoming scarce, and he wanted to reduce its use. He was unconvinced that any streaming could approach the sound, a skeptic.
At my urging, several years ago, he ripped a small portion of his CDs to ALAC. We tried running iTunes out of an old Mac Mini he already had directly connected through the analog output of the Mac Mini into his pre-amp. As many would imagine, he was nonplussed with the sound, but he did like the convenience.
We then simply took the digital output from the MacMini into what I'd consider a very nice DAC for it's price. I also knew a bit of the sound he was trying to achieve. We then ran the analog output of the DAC into a tube buffer and into the pre-amp. With (definitely not scientifically rigorous) blind A/B testing and level matching to the best of our ability (using a phone app) - we both could discern the CD player from the streaming setup. Me being ever the skeptic also, I intentionally then ran the streaming set up at a slightly lower dB than the CD player just for another round. The streaming setup was the preferred sound to both of us in both cases using 10 selected portions of music each. Total out of pocket budget ... $400 or so. However, he also had the Mac Mini, and all the networking and storage in place. Is it in any way "ideal" or "optimized" - No. It's what HE likes at a budget that worked for me to provide it as a gift. We then subbed out Qobuz (using Audirvana as an interface / playback software) for his ripped CDs and listened to the same 10 selections blindly. Neither of us could discern the difference.
Hope you're having some fun.
To be honest, I never felt the urge to digitize my CD collection. Whenever I want to listen to music, I put on a CD. That said, I digitized a lot and stored on a NAS, just to try how can I play music on a smartphone, or on a PC as background music. And I copied a lot to pendrives, to play back in my car. Not for serious listening.
I bought a Zyxel NAS326 based on your mention - thanks! Have a 2T WD Green Label in it. Now I have "all the room in the world" for additional material. Was a breeze to setup and connect to my Win / Linux PC systems and rPi bedroom system.
This is a good example of how the forum helps me. Sometimes, it doesnt take a whole lot even just a casual mention of something. Please know it's appreciated.
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