Go Back   Home > Forums > >
Home Forums Rules Articles diyAudio Store Blogs Gallery Wiki Register Donations FAQ Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Class D Switching Power Amplifiers and Power D/A conversion

Hypex Ncore
Hypex Ncore
Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 4th March 2016, 08:43 PM   #10401
badman is offline badman  United States
diyAudio Member
 
badman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Ashland, MA
Quote:
Originally Posted by Omholt View Post
I'm a little surprised it's not totally flat with a simulated loudspeaker load.
well, .25dB/Div scale makes it pretty clear just how small these deviations are-That variance could come from a lot of places.
__________________
"The dawn of Bose created the "Man Cave" and reduced testoterone levels worldwide by 18.5 per cent" Peteleoni
 
Old 4th March 2016, 09:08 PM   #10402
Omholt is offline Omholt  Norway
diyAudio Member
 
Omholt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Hypex Ncore
Quote:
Originally Posted by pos View Post
Intersting!
Did you use a buffer on the anaview?
As is it looks like they are quite sensitive to the source output characteristics.
No buffer was used. I used Hypex DLCP as DAC and preamp.
 
Old 4th March 2016, 11:14 PM   #10403
NATDBERG is offline NATDBERG  United Kingdom
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by akasha View Post
I don't think your disrespect, and judgement of peoples lack of technical knowledge is appropriate, it's what people hear (or measures) that matters, or whatever makes their day.
I think you're reading between the lines and extrapolating what I said.

People who lack technical knowledge or aren't willing to get into that side of things etc etc will then judge by ear (as that's all they otherwise have time for).

It is not logical to conclude from that statement, the inverse! - that therefore people who judge by ear are doing so because they lack technical knowledge. That's what I'm understanding you find disrespectful? But I neither said nor intended to express that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by akasha View Post
Musicallity has nothing to do with being colored, it's being able to reveal colors, but mostly timing and dynamics
I have to disagree there - and it's probably down to the ill defined language of sound we use, nothing more..

Dynamics and timing and "colour" (I guess by that you mean a tonal richness?) are there in the sound naturally (whether it's music or not - hence musicality is something different) and transparency in gear allows that to come through.

What people do when they are creating art is they tweak those unnatturally in order to emphasise parts of the sound which sound nice, they make them more prominent than is natural. In other ways they will reduce aspects of sound which are not so easy to listen to (in some instances - this is generalised). e.g. real trumpet played loud is hard to listen to for long as it involves such dynamics and metalic harmonics that grate. Therefore engineers use outboard equipment (mic choice, pre-amps, mixers, compressors etc) to lessen those aspects, make the sound rounded off, emphasise certain mid-range frequencies - a process which could be described as making it sound more "musical". Or it could be described as "colouring" the sound (i.e. making it more pleasing but less real).

What people consider to be "real" though is a mostly a figure of their imagination IMO. Get Wynton Marsalis to REALLY play in your living room and I bet many "fans" would secretly wish he'd shut the fut up! But play a recording which has been artistically produced for enjoyment and they will celebrate how real it sounds and how they could listen for hours on end to his beautiful playing, musicality etc..

But when we come to monitoring amplification, you need - and audio engineers look for - transparency.

As I see it, music is a humanised subset of sound and one only other humans can define (my cat doesn't relate to music as far as I can tell, indeed some humans with irregular or damaged brains also cannot differentiate between music and any other noise). Musicality, as I understand the word is down to the listener - it's a description applied afterwards and implies human interaction. It is not really a description of sound per se else musicality would be found in natural sounds too, yet it wouldn't be music (because it's not related to human culture - when natural sound IS described as music, it's a poetic twist on the real meaning of the word).

Anyway... blah blah blah off topic as has been pointed out ( personally I see going off topic as giving character to a forum! It's up to those who run it as they wish though..).

Last edited by NATDBERG; 4th March 2016 at 11:36 PM.
 
Old 4th March 2016, 11:38 PM   #10404
NATDBERG is offline NATDBERG  United Kingdom
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
I know this will be hard to do as the nc500 isn't so readily available..

But what are people's impressions of the differences between the nc400 and nc500, either sonically speaking or in techincal terms of loudspeaker control?
 
Old 5th March 2016, 12:09 AM   #10405
Julf is offline Julf  Europe
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Amsterdam, The Netherlands
Quote:
Originally Posted by NATDBERG View Post
But what are people's impressions of the differences between the nc400 and nc500, either sonically speaking or in techincal terms of loudspeaker control?
I think the difference in technical terms has been pretty much discussed to death. At reasonable power levels, with reasonable loudspeaker loads, they should sound identical. The nc500 can supply slightly more power, the nc400 can drive a lower load impedance.
 
Old 5th March 2016, 12:23 AM   #10406
bavmike is offline bavmike  Canada
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: In the forest
Default Hypex Ncore

Quote:
Originally Posted by Julf View Post
I think the difference in technical terms has been pretty much discussed to death. At reasonable power levels, with reasonable loudspeaker loads, they should sound identical. The nc500 can supply slightly more power, the nc400 can drive a lower load impedance.

More like in 95% of applications the NC500 can supply almost double the power, (8 ohm output 200w vs 400w, 4 ohm output 400w vs 700w. And the 2 ohm output is 580w vs 550w) Both are 2 ohm stable.

The NC400 has a very good extremely transparent discrete input stage built onto the main board, which isn't bypassable. The NC500 has no buffer stage so the OEM is free to develop their own buffer stage to obtain any "house sound" signature they wish.

The output stages on both amps if driven within the range that they can both operate with top performance, should sound almost identical. But in order to get the identical sound out of them, the identical input buffer that the NC400 uses would need to be built for the NC500's.

Last edited by bavmike; 5th March 2016 at 12:30 AM.
 
Old 5th March 2016, 12:44 AM   #10407
Julf is offline Julf  Europe
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Amsterdam, The Netherlands
Quote:
Originally Posted by bavmike View Post
More like in 95% of applications the NC500 can supply almost double the power, (8 ohm output 200w vs 400w, 4 ohm output 400w vs 700w. And the 2 ohm output is 580w vs 550w)
To put that in perspective, that would be a difference of 3 dB, 2.4 dB and 0.2 dB respectively.

Quote:
Both are 2 ohm stable.
And the nc400 is 1 ohm stable.
 
Old 5th March 2016, 12:51 AM   #10408
bavmike is offline bavmike  Canada
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: In the forest
Default Hypex Ncore

Quote:
Originally Posted by Julf View Post
To put that in perspective, that would be a difference of 3 dB, 2.4 dB and 0.2 dB respectively.

And the nc400 is 1 ohm stable.

Just because the NC500 doesn't have a 1 ohm rating doesn't mean it will self destruct if it dips down to 1 ohm. The Mola Mola Kaluga doesn't have a 1 ohm rating either and this is what Bruno said about it:

"The 2 ohm spec only means it'll go full blast into that impedance while at lower impedances maximum power will reduce. It'll happily drive 1 ohm or even half an ohm but at that point you risk the amp cutting out (muting for one second) occasionally when you play very loud. Anyhow, just try it, you won't damage anything"

My experience with them driving Martin Logan's that dip down to 1 ohm was, even after 30 mins of continuous extremely high output, they were barely even warm.

Last edited by bavmike; 5th March 2016 at 12:54 AM.
 
Old 5th March 2016, 03:09 AM   #10409
ro9397 is offline ro9397  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: No. Utah
Per Hypex:

Single SMPS1200 (or two SMPS600) > two NC400: 200/400/600W @ 8/4/2 Ohm, 1 Ohm minimum
Single SMPS600 > one NC400 same as above
Single SMPS600 > two NC400: 200/400W @ 8/4 Ohm, 2 Ohm minimum

Single SMPS1200 > two NC500: 400/600/550W @ 8/4/2 Ohm, 1 Ohm minimum
Single SMPS1200 > one NC500: 400/700/550W @ 8/4/2 Ohm, 1 Ohm minimum

So the second PS and required larger chassis (estimate $300) nets .5 dB only @ 4 Ohm. That's an insanely high ratio of total cost for .5 dB only @ one narrow impedance.

NC500's 50W deficit only @ 2 Ohm seems virtually irrelevant.

I presume Hypex frown on any authorized OEM marketing NC500 modules to DIY market, if not outright disallow same. If true, there is no such thing as DIY NC500, only the retail market for fully built amps.
__________________
James
"Television is the poor man's whiskey." Russel Baker

Last edited by ro9397; 5th March 2016 at 03:20 AM.
 
Old 5th March 2016, 03:15 AM   #10410
bavmike is offline bavmike  Canada
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: In the forest
Default Hypex Ncore

Quote:
Originally Posted by ro9397 View Post
Per Hypex:

Single SMPS1200 (or two SMPS600) > two NC400: 200/400/600W @ 8/4/2 Ohm, 1 Ohm minimum
Single SMPS600 > one NC400 same as above
Single SMPS600 > two NC400: 200/400W @ 8/4 Ohm, 2 Ohm minimum

Single SMPS1200 > two NC500: 350/600/550W @ 8/4/2 Ohm, 1 Ohm minimum
Single SMPS1200 > one NC500: 350/700/550W @ 8/4/2 Ohm, 1 Ohm minimum

So the second PS and required larger chassis (estimate $300) nets .5 dB only @ 4 Ohm. That's an insanely high ratio of total cost for .5 dB only @ one narrow impedance.

Some NC500 resellers seem to quote 400W @ 8 Ohm, but not sure about that. I suspect that's wrong: NC500 doubles from 8 to 4 Ohm, and there appears to be universal agreement on the 700W @ 4 Ohm spec, which divided by 2 = 350W, the likely correct 8 Ohm spec.

NC500's 50W deficit only @ 2 Ohm seems virtually irrelevant.

I presume Hypex frown on any authorized OEM marketing NC500 modules to DIY market, if not outright disallow same, so it appears the only source for DIY is retail market, fully built amps.

Click the image to open in full size.
Click the image to open in full size.
 

Closed Thread


Hypex NcoreHide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Hypex UcD700 vs NCore Earbound Class D 27 20th October 2019 02:50 PM
Hypex Ncore vs. NAKSA AlliumPorrum Class D 1 26th May 2015 06:36 PM
Problem with Hypex Ncore Koifarm Class D 29 13th October 2014 06:32 AM
Any news on hypex ncore 2.0? JZatopa Class D 1 13th August 2013 10:30 AM
Building a Hypex Ncore... Jabbejokker Class D 0 7th March 2013 09:08 PM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 10:10 AM.


Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Resources saved on this page: MySQL 14.29%
vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright ©1999-2020 diyAudio
Wiki