I have posted a question there on Ebay:
"A TK2050 amplifier, however efficient still needs to get rid of it's heat. This cigar box 'solution' more than raises my eyebrows.... "
This is what I got back:
"It's simple, it runs with the lid open."
I guess this guy will sell you an electric car with an extension chord...
"A TK2050 amplifier, however efficient still needs to get rid of it's heat. This cigar box 'solution' more than raises my eyebrows.... "
This is what I got back:
"It's simple, it runs with the lid open."
I guess this guy will sell you an electric car with an extension chord...
I know this has been talked about in gripracer's thread, but...
"Mods will put your WineClone 100% on par with the real thing." - What is the real thing? The real WineClone? Virtue Audio? Or a real Sure amp?
Also, things could have been smaller and cheaper if he didn't use 250V MKPs and 50V electrolytics with 24V supply. Unless being big is a benefit.
"Mods will put your WineClone 100% on par with the real thing." - What is the real thing? The real WineClone? Virtue Audio? Or a real Sure amp?
Also, things could have been smaller and cheaper if he didn't use 250V MKPs and 50V electrolytics with 24V supply. Unless being big is a benefit.
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Hi Troupes, time has come to tackle the cores. But a bit at a loss for which ferrite rings I should buy. Maplin's ones are too big - 35mm wide. Jab electronics have a page of them, any of these suitable ?
JAB Electronics Micrometals & Farite Cores
BTW: replaced the Obbligato input caps with Claritycap SA's, wonderful improvement.
JAB Electronics Micrometals & Farite Cores
BTW: replaced the Obbligato input caps with Claritycap SA's, wonderful improvement.
Observation of Microphonic?
A few days ago I posted that although I had placed the fan on the amps heatsink on a separate battery and regulator I could still hear some residual noise of the fan through the speakers (very low level).
I thought at the time this was caused by electrical issues, maybe the radiation being picked up by some part of the board, so I tried caps across the fan inputs, re-routing the fan supply wires, but it now seems to be not the case.
If one presses the heatsink pushing it harder against the chip, or indeed just holding the heatsink between thumb and forefingers the noise is gone. In other words the noise/vibration of the fan is somehow mechanically picked up by the chip and them amplified.
Further checking shows that If I tap around the board with my finger nail with my ear to the speaker drivers I can in fact hear any noise my finger makes amplified through the drivers. Once again this is at a very low level but it makes one think.
I suspect that as the heatsink is basically spring loaded to the chip the contact is not as good as it could be at the interface, (probably not ideal for heat dissipation purposes either) and this may be the cause of the issues minor though it is.
If somehow these amps are microphonic then at high volume levels or when the amp is placed in a speaker cabinet to drive the speakers direct we may in fact be getting some feedback at certain frequencies colouring the sound which would not be heard at idle or low volumes.
It might also be an issue with large coils as if they are simply flopping in the breeze they will provide a potentially large vibration source.
I will look into ways to de-couple the fan mechanically and perhaps get a better connection of the heatsink and then see what residual vibration effects exist after that.
A few days ago I posted that although I had placed the fan on the amps heatsink on a separate battery and regulator I could still hear some residual noise of the fan through the speakers (very low level).
I thought at the time this was caused by electrical issues, maybe the radiation being picked up by some part of the board, so I tried caps across the fan inputs, re-routing the fan supply wires, but it now seems to be not the case.
If one presses the heatsink pushing it harder against the chip, or indeed just holding the heatsink between thumb and forefingers the noise is gone. In other words the noise/vibration of the fan is somehow mechanically picked up by the chip and them amplified.
Further checking shows that If I tap around the board with my finger nail with my ear to the speaker drivers I can in fact hear any noise my finger makes amplified through the drivers. Once again this is at a very low level but it makes one think.
I suspect that as the heatsink is basically spring loaded to the chip the contact is not as good as it could be at the interface, (probably not ideal for heat dissipation purposes either) and this may be the cause of the issues minor though it is.
If somehow these amps are microphonic then at high volume levels or when the amp is placed in a speaker cabinet to drive the speakers direct we may in fact be getting some feedback at certain frequencies colouring the sound which would not be heard at idle or low volumes.
It might also be an issue with large coils as if they are simply flopping in the breeze they will provide a potentially large vibration source.
I will look into ways to de-couple the fan mechanically and perhaps get a better connection of the heatsink and then see what residual vibration effects exist after that.
Hi V Bro
Got to say I am a bit surprised, mind you I am talking about very low levels, but tapping and scratching around the amp certainly translated through to the bass driver in particular and holding the heatsink killed the residual fan noise.
I suspect it is the heatsink causing the issue, perhaps small padding pieces in the fins might help or indeed a different heatsink.
If microphonics are there we would also need to be careful about cable connections as well.
I will do some further investigations in the quite of night.
a week back was that when I had the amp sitting on the top of one of the speakers (very solid one too) I was sure I could feel a fair amount of vibration in the amp that seemed greater than the speaker and 12 v battery it was sitting on.
I felt that later when I moved the amp another room and sat it on a bench, still hooked up to the same speakers that the bass was less strong....but then I thought it was likely just room acoustics or speaker position, but maybe not....it might have been feedback of the bass vibrations through the amp. Got me thinking anyway.
Of course I might be going mad too!
Got to say I am a bit surprised, mind you I am talking about very low levels, but tapping and scratching around the amp certainly translated through to the bass driver in particular and holding the heatsink killed the residual fan noise.
I suspect it is the heatsink causing the issue, perhaps small padding pieces in the fins might help or indeed a different heatsink.
If microphonics are there we would also need to be careful about cable connections as well.
I will do some further investigations in the quite of night.
a week back was that when I had the amp sitting on the top of one of the speakers (very solid one too) I was sure I could feel a fair amount of vibration in the amp that seemed greater than the speaker and 12 v battery it was sitting on.
I felt that later when I moved the amp another room and sat it on a bench, still hooked up to the same speakers that the bass was less strong....but then I thought it was likely just room acoustics or speaker position, but maybe not....it might have been feedback of the bass vibrations through the amp. Got me thinking anyway.
Of course I might be going mad too!
Hiss...
Hi to all,
My board arived. It is excellent. As power supply I use 2 caps, each 18000uF connected to 18V from transformer and that is it. Is it enough? Is it better to use switching power supply?
Also there is hiss. I can her it from my speakers when idle. Is it common isue? How to mee it totaly silent?
I chenged input caps for Philips MKT 3.3uF (I had these already). Should I change resistor after input caps to 18k or 20k, or to leave it 22k?
Thanks and best regards friends
Hi to all,
My board arived. It is excellent. As power supply I use 2 caps, each 18000uF connected to 18V from transformer and that is it. Is it enough? Is it better to use switching power supply?
Also there is hiss. I can her it from my speakers when idle. Is it common isue? How to mee it totaly silent?
I chenged input caps for Philips MKT 3.3uF (I had these already). Should I change resistor after input caps to 18k or 20k, or to leave it 22k?
Thanks and best regards friends
I'm planning on starting my mods tonight. I'm thinking about the input cap and coil mods. I'd like to do one channel at a time and use a splitter to run the same signal through both channels and see what the differences are. I was also thinking about adding the zobel. I got some Dayton caps .47uF for the zobel and 1.5uF and 2.2uF caps for the input. I'm going to try the Coilcraft ser1360 series, Coilcraft SER1360 Power Inductors , as my output filter inductors.
Question is what would people suggest as the ideal order of test? I'd like to do one step at a time and test it. Should I do coils first? Input caps? Zobel?
Question is what would people suggest as the ideal order of test? I'd like to do one step at a time and test it. Should I do coils first? Input caps? Zobel?
Hi Mfong, I agree sitting the amp on top of the speaker would have far more to do with speaker vibration than the fan, as said to me it seemed the music had more bass, likely bloom I would now guess.
Last night I did a bit of checking and I feel that you can just detect a vibration through the heatsink that is in unison with the music and quite separate from the fan, it is also volume dependent. I am not sure it this is mechanical feedback through the air and into the amp board or coming from the board itself, it seems impossible it could come from the board, but a test the bench the board is sitting on reveals no perceptible vibration.
So where am I with this, basically I feel there is some microphonics at play and it is likely it effects the overall final sound to a very small degree, but for me it something I intend to deal with in my search for the purest sound reproduction.
Last night I did a bit of checking and I feel that you can just detect a vibration through the heatsink that is in unison with the music and quite separate from the fan, it is also volume dependent. I am not sure it this is mechanical feedback through the air and into the amp board or coming from the board itself, it seems impossible it could come from the board, but a test the bench the board is sitting on reveals no perceptible vibration.
So where am I with this, basically I feel there is some microphonics at play and it is likely it effects the overall final sound to a very small degree, but for me it something I intend to deal with in my search for the purest sound reproduction.
It could be that vibrations in the heatsink are inducing currents in wires, board traces, or chip legs through capacitance varations.
Just a thought.
-dr_vega
Zero ONe,
yeah, I remember when I was building speakers and the vogue was to put the passive crossover in a separate enclosure because of the physical and magnetic commotion inside the speaker box. It actually did make a difference, but for me it was a law of diminishing returns thing.
I'm still listening to my Sure in stock form. I may have the only one on this board with the original input caps. I guess the fan isn't a worry for me, yet.
I did notice that the Virtue Audio folk on their board at Audio Circle did say that the biggest single difference they noticed came with the amount of current in the power supply.I think Seth Krinsky said that it went way beyond any mods they did to their board.
That's the one thing I've played with and the differences are very striking. So far, I've tried 12 volt smps, 19.5 volt 3 amp smps, 24 volt ni-cad battery, and 31 volt 3 amp smps (HP printer power brick). the 31 volts is by far the best. It's obviously more dynamic, but it's also much more articulate. I'm sure there are any number of ways to improve the Sure, but w/ 31 volts as is, it's very good. The HP brick also lets me keep the power supply away from the amp board and I suspect that helps too. Transformers, even the good ones, vibrate.
For 60 dollars or so (Tap plastics acrylic for the front and back panel of an old steel box, rca connectors, speaker posts, Sure Board, and power supply), I have an amp that I could live with easily.
yeah, I remember when I was building speakers and the vogue was to put the passive crossover in a separate enclosure because of the physical and magnetic commotion inside the speaker box. It actually did make a difference, but for me it was a law of diminishing returns thing.
I'm still listening to my Sure in stock form. I may have the only one on this board with the original input caps. I guess the fan isn't a worry for me, yet.
I did notice that the Virtue Audio folk on their board at Audio Circle did say that the biggest single difference they noticed came with the amount of current in the power supply.I think Seth Krinsky said that it went way beyond any mods they did to their board.
That's the one thing I've played with and the differences are very striking. So far, I've tried 12 volt smps, 19.5 volt 3 amp smps, 24 volt ni-cad battery, and 31 volt 3 amp smps (HP printer power brick). the 31 volts is by far the best. It's obviously more dynamic, but it's also much more articulate. I'm sure there are any number of ways to improve the Sure, but w/ 31 volts as is, it's very good. The HP brick also lets me keep the power supply away from the amp board and I suspect that helps too. Transformers, even the good ones, vibrate.
For 60 dollars or so (Tap plastics acrylic for the front and back panel of an old steel box, rca connectors, speaker posts, Sure Board, and power supply), I have an amp that I could live with easily.
I can only recommend to buy or borrow an oscilloscope, it's a dead simple thing to measure....
So, have you adapted the feedback on all these different supply voltages?
It makes no sense making statements about the sound without having optimised the amplifier to the rail voltage.
Ok, smart to make a comparison between the channels, but on the other hand what you will eventually hear (though it may be pleasant for your ears) could very well be a rise or drop in the higher frequency range.(an effect common for these amps with changes to the output filter or load)
All I want to say is that without measuring what is happening it is next to impossible to make modifications that are truely for the better.
With only a pair of ears as measuring instruments I would advise not to go further than changing the input caps. When you are not planning on making a real investigation out of it this is still a 'safe' area. For coil mods I would strongly suggest to at least keep an eye on the current draw and even better to use a tone generator on the inputs to monitor possible saturation limits.
Without measuring what's happening it is hard to tell apart whether changes are really improvements, a lot of the functioning of the output filter has no first hand influence on the audio quality, but is just there to block the switching frequency and do this as best and linear as possible for a given load.
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