Hi, new here, i've searched the forum and didn't find anything (maybe missed something)
I have upgraded front door speakers from factory OEM 2 years ago with JBL 609C and Alpine UTE72BT (i know entry level HU) but it had bluetooth so it was better at that time (for gf of course :😂
Speakers played for the last 2 years okay-ish, i've head JBL's before, but not as powerful as these. JBL claims it can handle up to 200W RMS at the best, and i see they do, but with a catch.
ADDED AMP: Edge Eda 350.2 - 2 x 200W RMS 4ohm / 2 x 350W RMS 2ohm (not recomending the amp if you're heat sensitive, you can fry eggs on it) VIBE upgraded their version for lower heating. (Edge being their lower price products for Russian market, VIBE for UK and EU)
Wires ALL OFC. Main power 16mm ESX wire Kit. Speaker wires Stinger 2mm OFC. RCA - Ground Zero Triple shielded- Routed on the other side of the car, of course frm the Power Cable.
Now, the issue is it doesn't play loud for my expectation.
I've changed the amp with a CRUNCH GTX 4800 with a 4 x 110 W RMS 4ohm / 4 x 200 W RMS 2ohm. This Amp indeed lowered the volume because of the 4x110W. I can't understand why it didn't switched to 2ohms for the full 200W RMS / channel. But this had a NICE sound. Warm and enjoyable. I liked it.
Switched back to Edge 350.2 for the power. Rear door will receive later on speakers, now don't have. So, 2 ch amp is ok at the moment.
Can anyone if had experience with the JBL 609C how loud they play and maybe some more settings up to do?
Now, the problem: it doesn't sound loud enough, for my expectations. Ok, it plays loud without distortion (like playing directly from 22w/channel HU)
I've tried multiple Amp setups with the multimeter setting gains, but didn't had very much succes in the Loud and Powerful department.
Tried the rule of 75% volume gain set, set the volume to 33 from 35, set the volume to 16, anyway didn't get loud enough, for good sound.
I play a lot from spotify (Galaxy S10+) and keep the volume up to 70-75% until the volume logo on my Galaxy S10+ turns red when increasing. It has last 3 or 4 volume steps with red. So i keep my volume on the last "safe" step or the first red step.
If i am turning the volume on spotify to the max, i am getting so pops in the speakers. Probably the coil hits the bottom? Although it doesn't distort, sound is clear/good. Of course some songs can be played up to 24, others up to 30, others up to 20. It depends on the song. Although is not nice to listen loud on a song and the next when starts to crack your speakers with those scarry pops.
Of course even on USB it depends from song to song, that it's common sense.
My doors are fully isolated with CTK 2mm bitum-AL, 6mm sound special foam CTK Elastic (exterior door pannel) / - CTK 2mm bitum for middle AL pannel which is the window mec
Is there a way i can make the speakers play at their loudest volume without these scarry pops and benefit from those 200W RMS / channel? Right now i don't see the advantage over most speakers that are around 100W/channel (not talking about PRO Audio)
I am thinking in buying an osciloscope (will use in the future anyway) to set up the amp and HU for better quality without clipping.
I have upgraded front door speakers from factory OEM 2 years ago with JBL 609C and Alpine UTE72BT (i know entry level HU) but it had bluetooth so it was better at that time (for gf of course :😂
Speakers played for the last 2 years okay-ish, i've head JBL's before, but not as powerful as these. JBL claims it can handle up to 200W RMS at the best, and i see they do, but with a catch.
ADDED AMP: Edge Eda 350.2 - 2 x 200W RMS 4ohm / 2 x 350W RMS 2ohm (not recomending the amp if you're heat sensitive, you can fry eggs on it) VIBE upgraded their version for lower heating. (Edge being their lower price products for Russian market, VIBE for UK and EU)
Wires ALL OFC. Main power 16mm ESX wire Kit. Speaker wires Stinger 2mm OFC. RCA - Ground Zero Triple shielded- Routed on the other side of the car, of course frm the Power Cable.
Now, the issue is it doesn't play loud for my expectation.
I've changed the amp with a CRUNCH GTX 4800 with a 4 x 110 W RMS 4ohm / 4 x 200 W RMS 2ohm. This Amp indeed lowered the volume because of the 4x110W. I can't understand why it didn't switched to 2ohms for the full 200W RMS / channel. But this had a NICE sound. Warm and enjoyable. I liked it.
Switched back to Edge 350.2 for the power. Rear door will receive later on speakers, now don't have. So, 2 ch amp is ok at the moment.
Can anyone if had experience with the JBL 609C how loud they play and maybe some more settings up to do?
Now, the problem: it doesn't sound loud enough, for my expectations. Ok, it plays loud without distortion (like playing directly from 22w/channel HU)
I've tried multiple Amp setups with the multimeter setting gains, but didn't had very much succes in the Loud and Powerful department.
Tried the rule of 75% volume gain set, set the volume to 33 from 35, set the volume to 16, anyway didn't get loud enough, for good sound.
I play a lot from spotify (Galaxy S10+) and keep the volume up to 70-75% until the volume logo on my Galaxy S10+ turns red when increasing. It has last 3 or 4 volume steps with red. So i keep my volume on the last "safe" step or the first red step.
If i am turning the volume on spotify to the max, i am getting so pops in the speakers. Probably the coil hits the bottom? Although it doesn't distort, sound is clear/good. Of course some songs can be played up to 24, others up to 30, others up to 20. It depends on the song. Although is not nice to listen loud on a song and the next when starts to crack your speakers with those scarry pops.
Of course even on USB it depends from song to song, that it's common sense.
My doors are fully isolated with CTK 2mm bitum-AL, 6mm sound special foam CTK Elastic (exterior door pannel) / - CTK 2mm bitum for middle AL pannel which is the window mec
Is there a way i can make the speakers play at their loudest volume without these scarry pops and benefit from those 200W RMS / channel? Right now i don't see the advantage over most speakers that are around 100W/channel (not talking about PRO Audio)
I am thinking in buying an osciloscope (will use in the future anyway) to set up the amp and HU for better quality without clipping.
Those very loud and hard pops is mostly the coil which is on it's mechanical endpoint. I don't know how high your expectations are? But before a speaker reaches it's mechanical endpoint, it's quite loud.
If you want more volume, you could add another set of speakers.
What you can also do, is load your doorspeakers in a box. Your doorspeakers are barely loaded at the moment.
Another more cheaper option (what I do in my car, I have a seperate subwoofer system), you can set your amplifier on 'Hi-pass'. You can turn the Hi-pass potentiometer until the very low frequencies are a little bit less powerful.
Then you can partially filter out the very low frequency sounds.
Because of this, your speaker will have less excursion at high volumes and can handle higher power without touching it mechanical endpoints.
I would only suggest this when you have a seperate subwoofer in the car. If you don't have this, it would lower your bass response and this would not be ideal.
If you want more volume, you could add another set of speakers.
What you can also do, is load your doorspeakers in a box. Your doorspeakers are barely loaded at the moment.
Another more cheaper option (what I do in my car, I have a seperate subwoofer system), you can set your amplifier on 'Hi-pass'. You can turn the Hi-pass potentiometer until the very low frequencies are a little bit less powerful.
Then you can partially filter out the very low frequency sounds.
Because of this, your speaker will have less excursion at high volumes and can handle higher power without touching it mechanical endpoints.
I would only suggest this when you have a seperate subwoofer in the car. If you don't have this, it would lower your bass response and this would not be ideal.
Thanks guys,
meanwhile i studied the problem in the last days, and came to the same conclusion. that the coil is reaching xmax and touching the magnet.
Also, i had the HU passed at 60Hz but guess that is not enough, wecause after 25/26 it pops, but still didn't get the kind of bass i would expect. With the HPF off it starts popping around 20-21 depends the song.
Right now i don't want to add a Sub, i like to keep my car very practical, probably the only sub i would add would be a shallow one for which i could fabricate a box in the trunk not very high, maybe 10-15cm.
Until adding the sub i was thinking to install in my rear doors The new DefBonce Machete LW-65A4 6.5" or 80A4 8" (if i can fit with no mods to the door) and also with proper sound deadening to hold the bass.
At this point even with the GTO 609C the roof vibrates when listening louder (even at 60hz hpf)
As i see these 2 way systems usually are not loud because lacking the 3rd mid-range speakers.
Besides my Passat i have another Golf V, with the 10 speakers 3 way in the from, 100% stock OEM, and damn i can hear it sounding better. Yeah it distorts at high volume but 3 way gives you another sound stage.
I'm kind of disapointed of these JBL GTO 609C. I was expecting something better.
Probably in my next car i would go with Pro Audio Components and a sub to get that clarity, sound stage and loudness. But then a Subwoofer would be a must in the system.
To have these regular Car Audio component speakers crossed at 100-120Hz doesn't worth the money since Pro Audio are much more efficient, more powerful and better sound quality in the mids and highs. Much more detailing sound. Unless you're not installing very high-end components which cost thousands of dollars.
meanwhile i studied the problem in the last days, and came to the same conclusion. that the coil is reaching xmax and touching the magnet.
Also, i had the HU passed at 60Hz but guess that is not enough, wecause after 25/26 it pops, but still didn't get the kind of bass i would expect. With the HPF off it starts popping around 20-21 depends the song.
Right now i don't want to add a Sub, i like to keep my car very practical, probably the only sub i would add would be a shallow one for which i could fabricate a box in the trunk not very high, maybe 10-15cm.
Until adding the sub i was thinking to install in my rear doors The new DefBonce Machete LW-65A4 6.5" or 80A4 8" (if i can fit with no mods to the door) and also with proper sound deadening to hold the bass.
At this point even with the GTO 609C the roof vibrates when listening louder (even at 60hz hpf)
As i see these 2 way systems usually are not loud because lacking the 3rd mid-range speakers.
Besides my Passat i have another Golf V, with the 10 speakers 3 way in the from, 100% stock OEM, and damn i can hear it sounding better. Yeah it distorts at high volume but 3 way gives you another sound stage.
I'm kind of disapointed of these JBL GTO 609C. I was expecting something better.
Probably in my next car i would go with Pro Audio Components and a sub to get that clarity, sound stage and loudness. But then a Subwoofer would be a must in the system.
To have these regular Car Audio component speakers crossed at 100-120Hz doesn't worth the money since Pro Audio are much more efficient, more powerful and better sound quality in the mids and highs. Much more detailing sound. Unless you're not installing very high-end components which cost thousands of dollars.
The composet is around 100USD I see, often at that price level it isn't the most fantastic composet and mostly with a small sharp sounding little tweeter.
2.5 years ago I had a Sundown Audio Zv5 12inch sub pushing 4000w RMS power, the air movement made my clothes shake. I had only one 2 way composet installed in the car at that time. It was a 2-way Hertz Mille set. That speakers could juuust deliver the sound to be stable with the subwoofer (it should not be louder otherwise it couldn't).
It really depends on your car and what type of music you listen to. Every door reacts different to a composet, and there is also a wide variation of composet frequency responding.
Try to look for a bit more boomy (low frequency response) and a higher price level composet if you really have expectations in SQ and bass together.
It is a little investment, but will probably be a good one afterwards. Don't expect to reach crazy bass sound with only composets, or you need to build a box in your cars door.
You said your roof vibrate already, if your car is well isolated, this should be quite a volume for your speakers in that case. I would suggest putting a small subwoofer in your car if this still dissapoints you. it's so much more efficient and sometimes cheaper than customizing your whole doors with custom made speaker boxes.
Now I went a big step back, and I personally now have a Focal KRX2 set. It's the best composet I ever had. It's boomy, it's super crystal clear and very well balanced, but also around 1200-1100USD.
If you want super quality, try to look for something around 250USD. This is the best price/quality range in my opinion. But in this case, everybody has a different definition in quality and budget.
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At first i wanted a pair of Infinity Kappa 6.5 top of their range but despite being a bit expensive over my GTO's i couldn't find them anywhere on our market in Romania at that time. I know they are a step-up over GTO's in terms of SQ.
Right now, i think i'm just too picky. And i can take loud music if well balanced with the EQ, most people should i guess, not to have head aches from highs and stuff.
Mainly i play rock-blues, rnb, hip-hop. Not trance/electro and so on. That's why i choose JBL long time ago, i think they pair ok with these genres. Even in Home Audio JBL's are recomended for rock music and hip-hop. Plus the Legacy. I also looked on Focal and Hertz at the time, but were twice the price, so didn't thought actually will add amplifier and sub at that time, not even fully deaden the doors.
The Machete 6.5 i will buy actually ONLY to play as "small subs" and because they have a real low Fs30Hz and can add a punch to my system. I have time to plan this matter until spring, if i will get these and leave the system as it is or if i will add another pair of components for the back doors and add a shallow sub in the trunk.
Adding a Real sub will be quite beneficial but challenging in placing and building the box. I use my car full not to mention in the winter going to ski/snowboarding and putting the blades in the trunk.
Actually my amplifier is mounted in the upper part of the trunk, upside down, on the frame shelf (don't know how to name it) that separates the back window and trunk. (it's a sedan)
I don't want amps/subs/cables in the way, and also don't want them stashed under the trunk in the spare wheel place or somewhere else. I want good ventilation for them and keep an eye always for safety reasons.
There are plenty of good quality brands out there also, like: Audison, DLS, Eton, Helix, Hybrid Audio Tech, Scanpeak, and so on. It's a matter of budget and long term plan with that particular car you want to upgrade.
Hi, i've played around with HP filter, but even at 120hz, if i turn all the way up loud they get to reach max and pop. It's true that i have my bass +3 level, mid +2 level.
I was just doing a simulation of how will the front sound when i will install a subwoofer.
Also i have my Spotify/ Galaxy S10+ EQ custom to a clear sound (not over 0dB in the bass) just a litte over 0dB from 1kHZ up depending the frequency.
Did this because the DSP will be the last piece of the puzzle being so expensive (a good one like Helix/zapco/Audison)
Building separate enclosure for the woofer is not possible is my daily and can't cut the door panel (VW passat has a middle panel with window mechanism that removes completely).
Just deadened the doors with vibro and silent coat on all 3 panels outside metal, window mechanism panel and interior panel).
I was just thinking if there is a way that coud stop the speaker bottoming out on lower FQ like 60 or 80hz?? This would be very good if possible.
Maybe this can be achieved with an amplifier having higher Damping Factor?
It's weird because music being dynamic, there are songs like hip-hop that have bass and can make speakers pop and other music genres like rock or pop that can crank the volume up to 100% max and no poping.
What's your guessing about stopping this phenomenon happening in the lower FQ?