We have a friend who plan to pay $25K to make hifi system with car equipments? These equipments are:
1. Audison Thesis TH Quatro
Thesis TH quattro | Audison - car audio processors, amplifiers and speakers
2.Focal Utopia Car Drivers + Enclosure design cost to an engineer.
3.A HiFi Network DAC .
Some peoples claim it is possible to make a home audio system with car audio components.
How do you explain TECHNICALLY is it not possible or it is ?
Best Regards
1. Audison Thesis TH Quatro
Thesis TH quattro | Audison - car audio processors, amplifiers and speakers
2.Focal Utopia Car Drivers + Enclosure design cost to an engineer.
3.A HiFi Network DAC .
Some peoples claim it is possible to make a home audio system with car audio components.
How do you explain TECHNICALLY is it not possible or it is ?
Best Regards
Technically possible.
I have friends whose household power source is a small hydroelectric generator. They store the power in batteries and their home audio system runs off of car amps. Sounds great. They didn't use car speakers though, as far as I know, but I don't think there would be any issue.
If your friends do not have large banks of batteries to run the car amps off of, they would need to get them and a way to charge them. Most battery chargers are electrically noisy, so there is a good chance they'd need some kind of power filtering also. Or perhaps they could get very large AC to DC power supplies, but that's outside of my own experience.
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Why do they want to do this? Is he still in his 20s and impressed by the well equipped ladies advertising them in the car mags? Or was there some experience in a vehicle he can't recreate at home, unless he builds a room on springs.
Can you get them to a car audio shop to demo, then a hifi shop to demo. I'm guessing the hifi shop will need lots of subs, not high end gear.
I have done the car shows many times. Over 3 days camping you get to spend a bit of time everywhere. Nothing has ever been outstanding. It's been mid-fi at best. Waves of bass though. Tuneless mostly, but waves of bass really impress the kids. Midrange seems totally unimportant. With too much treble added to balance the monstrous bass.
Focal make hifi speakers you realise. So a focal dealer should be the next stop perhaps. So he can hear what focal drivers sound like in proper boxes in a house. No need to get a pro to design and build first. Which would nail his budget. It's already been done
Can you get them to a car audio shop to demo, then a hifi shop to demo. I'm guessing the hifi shop will need lots of subs, not high end gear.
I have done the car shows many times. Over 3 days camping you get to spend a bit of time everywhere. Nothing has ever been outstanding. It's been mid-fi at best. Waves of bass though. Tuneless mostly, but waves of bass really impress the kids. Midrange seems totally unimportant. With too much treble added to balance the monstrous bass.
Focal make hifi speakers you realise. So a focal dealer should be the next stop perhaps. So he can hear what focal drivers sound like in proper boxes in a house. No need to get a pro to design and build first. Which would nail his budget. It's already been done
Car audio equipment has to function within a very confined space and must contend with a reflective, resonant and noisy environment. It therefore has to be designed to overcome these disadvantages.
A neutral, uncoloured frequency response may be neither achievable nor desirable in car audio systems.
In home hifi systems, which operate in a more revealing acoustic environment, low levels of noise and distortion and a flat frequency response are the prime design considerations.
It's a case of horses for courses!
Hi Alchamist,
I'll disagree with most people here. A car audio system can be quite good actually. The last system I had in a car was made up of Nakamichi head unit (tape and radio) and a pair of Nakamichi amplifiers, another Denon head unit (for the CD). I used a souped up MTX electronic crossover and Vifa drivers. They really do freeze in the winter, it's not a joke!
Before this I have used Marantz and Concord head units, and MGT amplifiers (MGT-2100). I got out of car audio once it became about "boom - tick". I've also used the Peerless 8" woofers in sealed boxes (8 of them), and that sounded awesome!
So it is entirely possible to get excellent sound from a car audio system. If I were to do this again with new equipment, I don' think it would sound as good as those older systems. Note that I did modify, align and upgrade each system, so they weren't stock.
-Chris
I'll disagree with most people here. A car audio system can be quite good actually. The last system I had in a car was made up of Nakamichi head unit (tape and radio) and a pair of Nakamichi amplifiers, another Denon head unit (for the CD). I used a souped up MTX electronic crossover and Vifa drivers. They really do freeze in the winter, it's not a joke!
Before this I have used Marantz and Concord head units, and MGT amplifiers (MGT-2100). I got out of car audio once it became about "boom - tick". I've also used the Peerless 8" woofers in sealed boxes (8 of them), and that sounded awesome!
So it is entirely possible to get excellent sound from a car audio system. If I were to do this again with new equipment, I don' think it would sound as good as those older systems. Note that I did modify, align and upgrade each system, so they weren't stock.
-Chris
I am not in disagreement with those statements.
The point I was making is that a car audio system is designed to sound good in a car, whereas a hifi system is designed to sound good in the home.
The power supply is likely to be the biggest drawback. Getting a AC-DC converter for a powerful amp will be expensive. A regulated power supply is likely required for a good system. I'd recommend Astron but they're expensive. Pyramid makes decent supplies for cheap. A 50 amp supply is likely the minimum. If that is not enough, you can connect a battery in parallel. A Drycell would be best if used indoors due to it being sealed with no out-gassing during charging.
Odyssey Drycell Automotive Batteries
Astron Catalog Page #2 - Power Supplies
As a side note, the 12v supplies are available with and without meters, current and voltage control. The ones with all of those features will be more versatile and therefore have a much larger market if it may need to be sold in the future.
Odyssey Drycell Automotive Batteries
Astron Catalog Page #2 - Power Supplies
As a side note, the 12v supplies are available with and without meters, current and voltage control. The ones with all of those features will be more versatile and therefore have a much larger market if it may need to be sold in the future.
As far as power goes I run car audio off of converted server supplies in the home. Takes less than 20 minutes to make and spent about 60$ for 200amp regulated 12.8v power supplys in parallel with about .6v drop under full load.
RC Groups - View Single Post - A simple high quality 12Volt 100Amp Power Supply- Part1
RC Groups - View Single Post - A simple high quality 12Volt 100Amp Power Supply- Part1
I have had competition standard car audio. Ive heard nothing better. The best component by far was the Volkswagen that carried it. When I moved it to peugeots equivalent model it was disappointing. Obviously it didn't reach the point where I was giving the speakers a bit more toe-in. Or even where they were closer together than I was to either of them. To talk about a sweet spot would have my post deleted I hope. It didn't sound bad though. Even from the other side of the car park. As car audio goes, it was envied. Still wasn't hi-fi though.
Hi friendly1uk,
You really can create a home quality audio system in a car. It really helps to start with a large, quiet car or truck (a Suburban would be nice) that allows you the room for proper speaker boxes and equipment racks. A quality head unit is a must.
Ignore the boom - tick crowd. Advice from that quarter will only lead you to a competition type system, not a HiFi system.
-Chris
Well, that is the thing. To get HiFi, one has to design for HiFi. If you are designing for competitions, max SPL is one important factor. The best sounding systems in a car can be loud, but not nearly as loud as most installers target. The other thing you have to do is use good speakers (for home speakers, can be 4 ohm) in the properly sized box. B4 maximum order for tuning. The resulting system will normally be nicer to the car electrical system too. Use speakers designed for accuracy and efficiency, not for how much power they can dissipate. Use electronic crossovers instead of passive ones. Upgrade the electronics in the electronic crossover! Try to get a flat response before reaching for the DSP unit.
You really can create a home quality audio system in a car. It really helps to start with a large, quiet car or truck (a Suburban would be nice) that allows you the room for proper speaker boxes and equipment racks. A quality head unit is a must.
Ignore the boom - tick crowd. Advice from that quarter will only lead you to a competition type system, not a HiFi system.
-Chris
Hi Chris,
Personally i agree to Galu but your views are quite serious. Ones a time i listened a car CD player made by pcm1704. It was amazing. Now i have six same chips and i'm searching for balanced schematic to make a DAC to use at home. It is little ironic i guess
He said i already visit home hifi showroom. He still argue car components have better quality at the same costs.
Hi Alchamist,
Yes, my views are pretty strong. I used to have systems that better than some people's home systems where the components were designed to last a long time. What I have seen with the newer product was disappointing. It doesn't seem to be made to last at all.
The requirement for lead-free solder used in today's systems pretty much guaranties a short life and quick trip into landfill. Even the bearings used in motors and any pulleys are too light for the job they do. Parts for older head units are no longer available on top of that. Then there are the amplifiers. After seeing some of them, I can see where they will have a much higher failure rate for broken solder connections. This is especially true for amplifiers mounted onto the subwoofer box.
I'll put this old equipment into the next car I get that is used as a "winter beater" up here. Possibly that means a truck in order to get a vehicle that lasts. Newer vehicles have too much integration with the audio system, so I'd have to use the existing head unit. I'm thinking the actual audio performance is probably pretty grim.
Looking back over the past years, it seems that, like home audio, the best years have past us. Please show me I'm wrong about this.
-Chris
Yes, my views are pretty strong. I used to have systems that better than some people's home systems where the components were designed to last a long time. What I have seen with the newer product was disappointing. It doesn't seem to be made to last at all.
The requirement for lead-free solder used in today's systems pretty much guaranties a short life and quick trip into landfill. Even the bearings used in motors and any pulleys are too light for the job they do. Parts for older head units are no longer available on top of that. Then there are the amplifiers. After seeing some of them, I can see where they will have a much higher failure rate for broken solder connections. This is especially true for amplifiers mounted onto the subwoofer box.
I'll put this old equipment into the next car I get that is used as a "winter beater" up here. Possibly that means a truck in order to get a vehicle that lasts. Newer vehicles have too much integration with the audio system, so I'd have to use the existing head unit. I'm thinking the actual audio performance is probably pretty grim.
Looking back over the past years, it seems that, like home audio, the best years have past us. Please show me I'm wrong about this.
-Chris
If he thinks car audio costs the cams as home audio, he didn't visit a showroom with McIntosh or Mark Levinson equipment.
Remind him that the FETs in an amp often fail with lots of fireworks, even when properly fused. One example:
http://www.bcae1.com/allbointup/IMG_0872.JPG
Remind him that the FETs in an amp often fail with lots of fireworks, even when properly fused. One example:
http://www.bcae1.com/allbointup/IMG_0872.JPG
Hi Perry,
I've seen similar damage in both automotive and commercial systems. Usually mosfets but sometimes with BJTs. I wish digital cameras existed earlier in time, but we had a Carver PM1.5t come in where an output burned through not only the case (TO-3, metal), but also the case of the amplifier on the bottom. It was plugged into a 550 VAC circuit. The amplifier was a write-off. Car product tends to blow like your picture more commonly than home or commercial systems.
So, would you repair that one, or BER (beyond economical repair)?
-Chris
I've seen similar damage in both automotive and commercial systems. Usually mosfets but sometimes with BJTs. I wish digital cameras existed earlier in time, but we had a Carver PM1.5t come in where an output burned through not only the case (TO-3, metal), but also the case of the amplifier on the bottom. It was plugged into a 550 VAC circuit. The amplifier was a write-off. Car product tends to blow like your picture more commonly than home or commercial systems.
So, would you repair that one, or BER (beyond economical repair)?
-Chris
There was actually very little damage after the board was cleaned up. Many times, when the FETs begin to fail, the source-die wire burns and starts an arc that can melt the clamps and make a huge smoky mess. When conditions are perfect, this happens. When the FETs have nothing covering their face, you rarely see anything like this. It's the trapped arc that's allowed to grow to produce all of the heat.
Of course, there are times when the boards are too close to the arc and they burn to a crisp.
As a side note, one of the coolest things I've seen with a burned board is when it carbonizes between the power and ground pours on the board. It will light up intensely and glow until it burns its way away from one of the copper pours. This used to happen quite often. The amp would fail and the owner would leave it it hooked up and it would slowly burn. I guess the FR rating of new boards is higher.
Of course, there are times when the boards are too close to the arc and they burn to a crisp.
As a side note, one of the coolest things I've seen with a burned board is when it carbonizes between the power and ground pours on the board. It will light up intensely and glow until it burns its way away from one of the copper pours. This used to happen quite often. The amp would fail and the owner would leave it it hooked up and it would slowly burn. I guess the FR rating of new boards is higher.
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