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Old 4th December 2020, 12:49 AM   #31
akomarek is offline akomarek  United States
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Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: Minnesota
My situation sounds pretty familiar to yours. I have been into audio since age seven or so. Wanted to work in the auto industry so I got a mechanical engineering degree and then did a MSME focusing on vibration and acoustics. I was able to combine my passion for sound with passion for cars and other mechanical things so I really enjoy what I do for a living. I also have been into RC cars, built seven tube guitar amps, a tube headphone amp, and countless guitar effects pedals. Built a new home three years ago and am finally finishing our basement and putting together a system nicer than anything I've ever had, or even thought I would have. It's nothing crazy but I'm running Focal Chora 826 floor standing speakers in the front with a pair of SVS SB-2000 Pro subwoofers flanking the Focals. I also bought a Fluance RT-85 to give vinyl "one more shot" since I've had turntables in the past but never really got into it. Well, after trying the RT-85, I went head over heels for the whole vinyl experience and have a feeling I'm doing things a little backwards. I have a Hana ML cartridge on the Fluance now and am running that through a Parasound ZPhono XRM phono stage and my amp is a Lexicon RV-6 since it has to pull occasional home theater duties.

I've been playing the isolation / damping game to try to rid some low frequency resonances in the Fluance and am ready to go all-in and jump to a VPI. I was about ready to pull the trigger on the VPI Super Prime Scout package that Upscale Audio in California puts together for $2899 and then we got word that the owner of the lake cabin next to my parents was thinking of selling her place so turntable money went *poof* and will now be going towards less exciting things like a new roof for the cabin. So, now I'm designing my own turntable and am using the VPI Avenger as somewhat of a design reference. I'm fortunate enough to have some good machinist friends so I'm going to give it a shot.

I'm starting with the Anaheim Automations brushless DC motor and am building Phoenix's DIY 4-Phase Sinewave Generator as well as the motor drive board - all project files are on this site. DIY 4 Phase Sinewave Generator for Turntable Motor Drive Hat's off to Phoenix and others for making all of this information available and so easy to order.

Once I get the motor / controller running, I'll move onto the platter / bearing design challenge. Maybe some drill rod from McMaster, sintered bronze bushing, chrome ball running on a Vespel or PEEK disc and then lap it together so tolerances are stupid tight.
Platter and plinth should be fairly straightforward. I'll have to suck it up and buy a good tonearm but I think the rest of the build should be a lot of fun given my vibration / noise control expertise. I'm thinking I can build something similar to the VPI Avenger (minus tonearm) for around $1500 or so. Will it work as well? Who knows, but I'll be learning and enjoying myself along the way so we'll see.

Oh, I just got the 45 RPM Diana Krall Live in Paris today from AcousticSounds. I already had the 33rpm version so I'll spin the 45 tonight and see how it compares. If you like Diana Krall - try Vanessa Fernandez. Especially "Here but I'm gone" track - awesome mix and vocals are so front and center that when I put my son in the sweet spot and cranked it up for him, he whipped his head around with a big smile when the vocals came in. Incredible.
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Old 30th December 2020, 03:24 PM   #32
Pattyt is offline Pattyt
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Well, update, after very much searching and thoughts, I bought a used rega planer 2 (vintage) with out a tonearm and needs a belt. Way I see it, you can completely build this table with 100% aftermarket hop ups. Ill build a DIY tonearm, and slap on of my MM carts on it for now, and build my marantz TT7007 plinth, and as budget allows, get the 24v motor upgrade, get the neo for convienant speed changes, a aluminum sub platter, maybe a better platter, build a MC phono amp, get a nice MC cart.....
Nice that there's parts availability, and a upgrade path.
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Old 31st December 2020, 03:28 PM   #33
Pattyt is offline Pattyt
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Join Date: Oct 2020
Quote:
Originally Posted by akomarek View Post

Oh, I just got the 45 RPM Diana Krall Live in Paris today from AcousticSounds. I already had the 33rpm version so I'll spin the 45 tonight and see how it compares. If you like Diana Krall - try Vanessa Fernandez. Especially "Here but I'm gone" track - awesome mix and vocals are so front and center that when I put my son in the sweet spot and cranked it up for him, he whipped his head around with a big smile when the vocals came in. Incredible.
Good luck with your build! How does the 45 compare to the 33 on the fluance? Often wondered if its really worth it as I don't have a $1.5 million system lol. I'm sure I've heard vanessa, ill have to look her up!
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Old 31st December 2020, 09:02 PM   #34
warrjon is offline warrjon  Australia
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Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Terang Vic
Quote:
Originally Posted by hweb View Post
IMHO stay away from direct drive. Folks point to all kinds of "flaws" with DD - cogging, torque pulsing, longevity of the feedback loop electronics, etc. But to me the main advantage of belt drive is that you can easily suspend the tone arm and platter together separately from the motor and base. This gets the vibration of the motor, and more importantly, the room off the record (and ultimately the needle).

A good DD like the SP10 has W&F figures of 0.035% which is inaudible. Most of the W&F will be caused by LP warp and eccentricity and platter vertical/horizontal runout. If cogging was an issue W&F would be audible. There are lot of DD's still in use after 40 years so longevity is a non issue, and no belt to replace.



Even belt drive TT's cog. If the belt is not precision ground or there is dirt on the drive surfaces will increase speed instability. Precision ground belts are expensive.



I've had an LP12 and SP10 among others and the SP10 beats the LP12 hands down. Infact the SP10 is the best TT I have had and will be the last.



No system is perfect and you need to decide which compromises you are prepared to accept.
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Old 31st December 2020, 09:16 PM   #35
warrjon is offline warrjon  Australia
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Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Terang Vic
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pattyt View Post
Well, update, after very much searching and thoughts, I bought a used rega planer 2 (vintage) with out a tonearm and needs a belt. Way I see it, you can completely build this table with 100% aftermarket hop ups. Ill build a DIY tonearm, and slap on of my MM carts on it for now, and build my marantz TT7007 plinth, and as budget allows, get the 24v motor upgrade, get the neo for convienant speed changes, a aluminum sub platter, maybe a better platter, build a MC phono amp, get a nice MC cart.....
Nice that there's parts availability, and a upgrade path.

Good to see you settled on a TT. The older Rega's seem to be much better than the newer ones.

Don't waste your money on an MC. It's a total fallacy MC's are better than MM's. Buy a good MM, some of the vintage MM's are brilliant, Stanton 881s Technics EPC205 to name 2. Both of these will out perform MC's costing $1000's. I use the ECP205 with a Jico SAS ruby stylus and it out performs all of the high $$ MC's I have ever owned.

MC's were gaining popularity when I was an apprentice with Marantz. The manufacturers for the most part used better diamond profiles on their MC's than the MM's, there were a few exceptions 881, AT150MLX and EPC100/205, which were used by the great mastering engineers. I remember reading an interview with Doug Sax (who used a Stanton 881) and his comment was no MC he had heard sounded like the master tape.
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Old 2nd January 2021, 04:48 AM   #36
Pattyt is offline Pattyt
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Join Date: Oct 2020
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Originally Posted by warrjon View Post
Good to see you settled on a TT. The older Rega's seem to be much better than the newer ones.



Don't waste your money on an MC. It's a total fallacy MC's are better than MM's. Buy a good MM, some of the vintage MM's are brilliant, Stanton 881s Technics EPC205 to name 2. Both of these will out perform MC's costing $1000's. I use the ECP205 with a Jico SAS ruby stylus and it out performs all of the high $$ MC's I have ever owned.



MC's were gaining popularity when I was an apprentice with Marantz. The manufacturers for the most part used better diamond profiles on their MC's than the MM's, there were a few exceptions 881, AT150MLX and EPC100/205, which were used by the great mastering engineers. I remember reading an interview with Doug Sax (who used a Stanton 881) and his comment was no MC he had heard sounded like the master tape.
Thanks! Sorry it wasn't a DD, I just dont feel comfortable with them, never done a recap before and worried about parts availability, and taki g the full auto out and doing a manual conversion plinth. This is a project that I can mod over the years and upgrade, but still have the basic table and arms (one bearing the other unipivot) that me and mom built, and one more thing for me to remember her by. And will be interested in can I hear a difference in this or that upgrade.
For MC, I just keep seeing posts on the denon 110? I think..... I do see they have been making big steps in the mm game (only been into TTs for a few years) just made my first cart upgrade form the stock at95e to the new vm95ml, and can't wait to try a high cart on this project table. Gonna have a ton of questions about diy arms and plinths....

Last edited by Pattyt; 2nd January 2021 at 04:55 AM.
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Old 2nd January 2021, 07:23 AM   #37
warrjon is offline warrjon  Australia
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Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Terang Vic
I had a Linn K9 which was an AT95e and it was a great cartridge, bit sorry I sold it. With a replacement he stylus is bettered my Apheta 2. The ml should be even better. These cartridges punch well above their weight. The Denon is a good cartridge but why buy a cartridge that you can't replace the stylus that will not be better than what you have.

A trick with MM's is to either glue or use blu tack to hold the stylus in the cart body. My K9 had the stylus glued in with superglue still replaced it and re-glued the new stylus. My current EPC205 uses a very small bit of blu tack to hold the stylus.
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