Hi All,
I haven't set up a TT in ages, and I'm sure that when I did it - it wasn't properly done. Establishing myself as a noob that just barely knows the terms surrounding TTs and components.
Onto it...
My brother has a Denon DP3000 table with a Grace 707 arm and an as-yet unidentified cartridge / stylus.
He's the 2nd owner and has had it for 30ish years. He thinks he got it in 89.
Lately, he's said that it just doesn't sound quite "right". I'm hoping I can help him out a bit. He's gone to a local person (purportedly familiar with the arm etc.) to have the relevant physical settings adjusted.
No particular improvement to his ears. However, the person doing the alignment etc. (to the best of my knowledge) did not check the stylus or cartridge condition. I also don't know if the phono stage was ever set up properly for the cartridge. However, I assume it was. The sound was marvelous years ago to my ears.
Set up -
Stylus and Cartridge - Unidentified. Pics attached.
Arm - Grace 707
Table - Denon DP3000
Phono Stage - Forte FP 1
Pre - Forte 44
Amp - Forte 4
Speakers - Vandersteen 2C
First - could anyone help in identifying the cartridge? I tried to get a look at the back and bottom to no avail. I did not see any markings. Since he just paid to have it all re-done, I'd hate to loosen it and take it off.
Second - Any advice re: simple places to look and/or check to see if the stylus / cartridge is performing "properly"? I read an article re: stylus wear. That may require a more skilled person for evaluation than I. It plays music, but I do agree after all these years that some of the "life" has gone out of the music. With CDs etc. and other sources, the chain is just fine. So, I'm narrowing the search down to components directly related to the turntable / phono stage.
Third - Do phono pres potentially need any loving care? I had the power amplifier re-capped about 6 or 7 years ago due to an electrolytic failure.
I'd truly appreciate any insight. It's a lovely system, but the record collection is collecting dust at the moment.
I haven't set up a TT in ages, and I'm sure that when I did it - it wasn't properly done. Establishing myself as a noob that just barely knows the terms surrounding TTs and components.
Onto it...
My brother has a Denon DP3000 table with a Grace 707 arm and an as-yet unidentified cartridge / stylus.
He's the 2nd owner and has had it for 30ish years. He thinks he got it in 89.
Lately, he's said that it just doesn't sound quite "right". I'm hoping I can help him out a bit. He's gone to a local person (purportedly familiar with the arm etc.) to have the relevant physical settings adjusted.
No particular improvement to his ears. However, the person doing the alignment etc. (to the best of my knowledge) did not check the stylus or cartridge condition. I also don't know if the phono stage was ever set up properly for the cartridge. However, I assume it was. The sound was marvelous years ago to my ears.
Set up -
Stylus and Cartridge - Unidentified. Pics attached.
Arm - Grace 707
Table - Denon DP3000
Phono Stage - Forte FP 1
Pre - Forte 44
Amp - Forte 4
Speakers - Vandersteen 2C
First - could anyone help in identifying the cartridge? I tried to get a look at the back and bottom to no avail. I did not see any markings. Since he just paid to have it all re-done, I'd hate to loosen it and take it off.
Second - Any advice re: simple places to look and/or check to see if the stylus / cartridge is performing "properly"? I read an article re: stylus wear. That may require a more skilled person for evaluation than I. It plays music, but I do agree after all these years that some of the "life" has gone out of the music. With CDs etc. and other sources, the chain is just fine. So, I'm narrowing the search down to components directly related to the turntable / phono stage.
Third - Do phono pres potentially need any loving care? I had the power amplifier re-capped about 6 or 7 years ago due to an electrolytic failure.
I'd truly appreciate any insight. It's a lovely system, but the record collection is collecting dust at the moment.
Attachments
Kind of looks like an ADC cartridge body with a generic replacement stylus in it.
The "work" done recently (or perhaps earlier) may have been to install that generic stylus.
How much did he pay for the turntable work?
The Grace 707 tone arm is a very good arm, keep that even if you end up getting a new cartridge.
An original stylus for a 30 year old cartridge is not available, and generics are usually inferior.
An entire new cartridge is only a little more cost than a replacement stylus for it would be.
The "work" done recently (or perhaps earlier) may have been to install that generic stylus.
How much did he pay for the turntable work?
The Grace 707 tone arm is a very good arm, keep that even if you end up getting a new cartridge.
An original stylus for a 30 year old cartridge is not available, and generics are usually inferior.
An entire new cartridge is only a little more cost than a replacement stylus for it would be.
Last edited:
@rayma -
Thank you so much. Fortunately, I am sitting with my brother at the moment.
Your eyes are dead on. I asked my brother, and the sequence was:
1) After a move to a new home - he took it to have the physical things all set up. The shop (he does not remember the name and is sadly out of business) noticed that a stylus was needed, and did in-fact replace it. Total charge estimated between $75 and $100.
2) Some years later (ballpark 5 years ago) after wondering why sound wasn't quite as good, had same person re-look at physical settings after moving to a new rack. Cost - free (he thinks).
If a new cartridge is likely a good starting point, that should not be a worry. It's wonderful to have the information that a new stylus cannot be done and/or would not be cost effective.
Now for the loaded question.... Anyone have some recommendations for a cartridge / stylus combination that may pair well with this table? Cost <$600 USD. $500 target, but we all know we'll spend a wee bit more if there is a compelling reason.
If it helps... 99% of music is classic rock. All vinyl is stereo, 33rpm LPs. I think that matters, even if I'm not sure why.
Thank you so much. Fortunately, I am sitting with my brother at the moment.
Your eyes are dead on. I asked my brother, and the sequence was:
1) After a move to a new home - he took it to have the physical things all set up. The shop (he does not remember the name and is sadly out of business) noticed that a stylus was needed, and did in-fact replace it. Total charge estimated between $75 and $100.
2) Some years later (ballpark 5 years ago) after wondering why sound wasn't quite as good, had same person re-look at physical settings after moving to a new rack. Cost - free (he thinks).
If a new cartridge is likely a good starting point, that should not be a worry. It's wonderful to have the information that a new stylus cannot be done and/or would not be cost effective.
Now for the loaded question.... Anyone have some recommendations for a cartridge / stylus combination that may pair well with this table? Cost <$600 USD. $500 target, but we all know we'll spend a wee bit more if there is a compelling reason.
If it helps... 99% of music is classic rock. All vinyl is stereo, 33rpm LPs. I think that matters, even if I'm not sure why.
Not sure if this is the correct place to even ask...
Reviews are always tricky at best. With amplifiers and other components, honestly my opinions often differ from reviewers.
The most obvious choices in the Grado line seem to be the Opus3, the Platinum 3, and the Sonata3 at $275, $400, and $600 respectively. All are certainly options.
If you were spending our money and know that we don't want to / won't read through a zillion pages of reviews... which would you go with to find a balance of performance to price fitting with the quality of the table / arm etc.? Also know that we will call upon a pro to install and set it up. I've read the manual for the phono stage, and all seem to be compatible. However, do we go with low output or high output? The phono stage seems to have appropriate gain for either.
Once again, thank you for the replies. Neither of us know diddly about TTs, and I'd rather get information here than from a magazine that paired various cartridges with zillion dollar tables etc. or used wildly differing phono stages.
Ease of set-up and a level of user friendliness re: maintaining settings or replacing styli over time would be welcome if those are factors. "Drop in" for the installer, so we don't potentially get surprised with a need for a new arm or retrofitting etc, would be wonderful if that's remotely practical.
All suggestions are welcome.
Happy to provide any other relevant info.
Greatly appreciated.
Edited for clarity.
Reviews are always tricky at best. With amplifiers and other components, honestly my opinions often differ from reviewers.
The most obvious choices in the Grado line seem to be the Opus3, the Platinum 3, and the Sonata3 at $275, $400, and $600 respectively. All are certainly options.
If you were spending our money and know that we don't want to / won't read through a zillion pages of reviews... which would you go with to find a balance of performance to price fitting with the quality of the table / arm etc.? Also know that we will call upon a pro to install and set it up. I've read the manual for the phono stage, and all seem to be compatible. However, do we go with low output or high output? The phono stage seems to have appropriate gain for either.
Once again, thank you for the replies. Neither of us know diddly about TTs, and I'd rather get information here than from a magazine that paired various cartridges with zillion dollar tables etc. or used wildly differing phono stages.
Ease of set-up and a level of user friendliness re: maintaining settings or replacing styli over time would be welcome if those are factors. "Drop in" for the installer, so we don't potentially get surprised with a need for a new arm or retrofitting etc, would be wonderful if that's remotely practical.
All suggestions are welcome.
Happy to provide any other relevant info.
Greatly appreciated.
Edited for clarity.
Last edited:
Please keep the arm, and have an experienced professional install a new cartridge.
A cheaper cartridge properly installed will be better than a more expensive cartridge poorly installed.
If you're close to Minneapolis, go to Audio Perfection on Lyndale.
They will properly install a suitable good cartridge in the Grace arm for you.
It's likely that you will be able to hear the cartridge in one of their systems.
A cheaper cartridge properly installed will be better than a more expensive cartridge poorly installed.
If you're close to Minneapolis, go to Audio Perfection on Lyndale.
They will properly install a suitable good cartridge in the Grace arm for you.
It's likely that you will be able to hear the cartridge in one of their systems.
Last edited:
LOL! I know them well. At the moment, I am in Asheville NC visiting my brother. Recommendations in this area would be awesome. The shop he used to visit along with a shop I knew well in Greenville, SC are OOB.
Edited to add - BTW - Agree 100%. That's why I re-edited my other post to ensure clarity that we'll get a pro to do it.
Recommendations in this area would be awesome. The shop he used to visit along with a shop I knew well in Greenville, SC are OOB. Edited to add - BTW - Agree 100%. That's why I re-edited my other post to ensure clarity that we'll get a pro to do it.
Last edited:
Well, being impulsive and armed with some excellent advice from this incredible group and others, I've arranged for him to take the table to a well-regarded shop in NC. It's his birthday on Sunday, so I'm kicking in a bit. They're doing a full work up on the table, installing the cartridge / stylus and ensuring a good match.
For those that do like some "what to expect" costing - see below. I know I always appreciate knowing "real" vs. posted costs. They recommended a alternative cartridge (not "over" the Grados). However, it's purportedly a great bang for the buck. The gentleman that I spoke with on the phone gave me confidence that a Sumiko Blue Point was an excellent choice for the table / phono stage. They've offered to do all the work and test everything on-site and reset the DIPs appropriately on the phono stage (they said it's a different type of cartridge) and allow some listening prior to taking it home for a level of confidence. All inclusive for the posted retail price of the cartridge and stylus of $549. They'll credit the cost toward a different cartridge / installation if he's not happy.
Since I've dealt with that company prior for some other things when I lived in the Carolinas, and the gentleman on the phone gave me a high level of confidence that he "knew his stuff" - I went ahead and secured the work to be done on Tuesday before I head home.
If there's any huge red flags, please let me know - but I feel pretty good that his old TT and my old Vandersteens will sing together again.
Can't thank you guys enough!
For those that do like some "what to expect" costing - see below. I know I always appreciate knowing "real" vs. posted costs. They recommended a alternative cartridge (not "over" the Grados). However, it's purportedly a great bang for the buck. The gentleman that I spoke with on the phone gave me confidence that a Sumiko Blue Point was an excellent choice for the table / phono stage. They've offered to do all the work and test everything on-site and reset the DIPs appropriately on the phono stage (they said it's a different type of cartridge) and allow some listening prior to taking it home for a level of confidence. All inclusive for the posted retail price of the cartridge and stylus of $549. They'll credit the cost toward a different cartridge / installation if he's not happy.
Since I've dealt with that company prior for some other things when I lived in the Carolinas, and the gentleman on the phone gave me a high level of confidence that he "knew his stuff" - I went ahead and secured the work to be done on Tuesday before I head home.
If there's any huge red flags, please let me know - but I feel pretty good that his old TT and my old Vandersteens will sing together again.
Can't thank you guys enough!
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.