Anyone know of a North American source for a motor for my Systemdek llX? It died yesterday. I checked with Audionote but no reply.
If I can't find one I guess its time for e bay but if I buy a used llX I may soon be in this same situation again.
I have checked this website but have been unable to find anything.
Any help would be appreciated.
If I can't find one I guess its time for e bay but if I buy a used llX I may soon be in this same situation again.
I have checked this website but have been unable to find anything.
Any help would be appreciated.
Some possible sources
Hi,
These synchronous motors are pretty standard for turntable use; formerly known as Airpax, they are now made under the Premotec name in Holland. The UK agent, Mclennan Servo Systems, lists the motor specifically for turntables as the model 9904 111 31813. It's at the bottom of this page. I couldn't see this on Premotec's own site
, but fortunately Mclennan supply the U.S. and Canadian markets direct from the UK. The motor is designed to operate at 110/117v as easily as at 230v.
Your main practical problem, IMHO, will be removing the pulley from the old motor, and fitting it to the new one. For the first task, a small gear-puller, as used in model-making, might work with care. When fitting the pulley, it's important to ensure the motor shaft is supported from below, so it is not pressed down hard. This would damage the motor. Some thin rod or spigot needs to be resting against the bottom of the shaft, where it is visible within the lower bronze bearing, to take the pressure.
BTW, I take it you have eliminated all other possibilities before concluding the motor has failed? For example, the start/ phase capacitor in the motor circuit has been known to give up after long service.
HTH,
Mark
Hi,
These synchronous motors are pretty standard for turntable use; formerly known as Airpax, they are now made under the Premotec name in Holland. The UK agent, Mclennan Servo Systems, lists the motor specifically for turntables as the model 9904 111 31813. It's at the bottom of this page. I couldn't see this on Premotec's own site
, but fortunately Mclennan supply the U.S. and Canadian markets direct from the UK. The motor is designed to operate at 110/117v as easily as at 230v.Your main practical problem, IMHO, will be removing the pulley from the old motor, and fitting it to the new one. For the first task, a small gear-puller, as used in model-making, might work with care. When fitting the pulley, it's important to ensure the motor shaft is supported from below, so it is not pressed down hard. This would damage the motor. Some thin rod or spigot needs to be resting against the bottom of the shaft, where it is visible within the lower bronze bearing, to take the pressure.
BTW, I take it you have eliminated all other possibilities before concluding the motor has failed? For example, the start/ phase capacitor in the motor circuit has been known to give up after long service.
HTH,
Mark
Mark:
Thanks for the great information.
The problem where I live is that there is no one around familiar with the Systemdek. Also I would not want to screw up the new motor installing the old pulley. I found one guy in Toronto but he says its been more than 8 years since he last worked on one and doesn't do it any more. He said he had three motors on a shelf until the spring and lost them in a fire.
I smelled something burning in the turntable a week ago. It stopped briefly and then picked up speed again but I shut it down. The next morning when I turned it on it started briefly and then died.
I figured it was the motor because if it was the electronics I would think it would have just died ....period.
I was in Toronto last weekend and was looking at the new Rega. I think, given the price, I will be better off with the new Rega than fixing a 20 year old Systemdek. Its been a great turntable, especially with the Rega 300 arm. But I think its time to cut the cord....so to speak.
Thanks for the great information.
The problem where I live is that there is no one around familiar with the Systemdek. Also I would not want to screw up the new motor installing the old pulley. I found one guy in Toronto but he says its been more than 8 years since he last worked on one and doesn't do it any more. He said he had three motors on a shelf until the spring and lost them in a fire.
I smelled something burning in the turntable a week ago. It stopped briefly and then picked up speed again but I shut it down. The next morning when I turned it on it started briefly and then died.
I figured it was the motor because if it was the electronics I would think it would have just died ....period.
I was in Toronto last weekend and was looking at the new Rega. I think, given the price, I will be better off with the new Rega than fixing a 20 year old Systemdek. Its been a great turntable, especially with the Rega 300 arm. But I think its time to cut the cord....so to speak.
Hi,
Yes, I take your point about finding someone to work on the deck. However, it still seems possible to me that it's something in the circuit supplying the motor that has gone wrong. There may be a resistor as well as a capacitor in the power supply, and these sometimes overheat. Maybe that was the cause of the burning smell. Failing components can lead to all kinds of intermittent starting - even causing the motor to run backwards on some decks!
I used to have a Systemdek II, BTW (the model with a round metal plinth), and, though it's now 25 years old, it still gives good service with a friend. I actually replaced the start capacitor on this, not because of a failure but in a search for better performance (noticed little difference, however).
So far as a replacement Rega deck is concerned, IMHO you'd be looking at a P3-24 as a minimum if you wanted to match the Systemdek/RB300's performance - this deck is fitted with an updated version of the RB300, of course.
Good luck!
Mark
Yes, I take your point about finding someone to work on the deck. However, it still seems possible to me that it's something in the circuit supplying the motor that has gone wrong. There may be a resistor as well as a capacitor in the power supply, and these sometimes overheat. Maybe that was the cause of the burning smell. Failing components can lead to all kinds of intermittent starting - even causing the motor to run backwards on some decks!
I used to have a Systemdek II, BTW (the model with a round metal plinth), and, though it's now 25 years old, it still gives good service with a friend. I actually replaced the start capacitor on this, not because of a failure but in a search for better performance (noticed little difference, however).
So far as a replacement Rega deck is concerned, IMHO you'd be looking at a P3-24 as a minimum if you wanted to match the Systemdek/RB300's performance - this deck is fitted with an updated version of the RB300, of course.
Good luck!
Mark
Mark:
I'm having second thoughts about the Rega and may end up trying to salvage the Systemdek.
I will take your advice about the power supply resistor and capacitor and have it checked out. I looked at the circuit board next to the motor and everything looks OK there.
I also got a reply on the motor from the link you sent me. They want me to order it through their US distributor who in turn will have to make a special order through the same fella I was talking to!
That's when I started thinking about checking to really make sure the motor is shot.
I'll let you know how things work out.
Once again I appreciate your help.
I'm having second thoughts about the Rega and may end up trying to salvage the Systemdek.
I will take your advice about the power supply resistor and capacitor and have it checked out. I looked at the circuit board next to the motor and everything looks OK there.
I also got a reply on the motor from the link you sent me. They want me to order it through their US distributor who in turn will have to make a special order through the same fella I was talking to!
That's when I started thinking about checking to really make sure the motor is shot.
I'll let you know how things work out.
Once again I appreciate your help.
Hi Watchvet,
I was randomly reading posts on diyaudio and landed on yours, the name systemdek is not one that everydody knows today...
Anyway, I once bought a JVC QL-A7 with a "bad" motor for I think 25$, turned out it was the motor connector that was bad. Goes to say that an experienced person can sometimes diagnose easily what seems like the obvious, serious problem.
If you'd like, ship me the board and motor and I will look at it and if I end up repairing it, it won't cost you anything. I do this as a hobby and am glad to provide my services to anybody.
Let me know.
I was randomly reading posts on diyaudio and landed on yours, the name systemdek is not one that everydody knows today...
Anyway, I once bought a JVC QL-A7 with a "bad" motor for I think 25$, turned out it was the motor connector that was bad. Goes to say that an experienced person can sometimes diagnose easily what seems like the obvious, serious problem.
If you'd like, ship me the board and motor and I will look at it and if I end up repairing it, it won't cost you anything. I do this as a hobby and am glad to provide my services to anybody.
Let me know.
gain-wire:
Thanks for the generous offer....but I took it in to a TV repair place here in town on Friday. They have a guy there who still works on turntables. The owner of a local vinyl store told me about him.
We chatted for a few minutes. Seems to know his stuff. He is checking the motor and the capacitor and resisistor.
I should know in a few days what burned. I hope its the capacitor because ordering a motor seems to be more trouble than organizing a wedding.
I appreciate the help. I'll post when I find out what the problem is.
Thanks for the generous offer....but I took it in to a TV repair place here in town on Friday. They have a guy there who still works on turntables. The owner of a local vinyl store told me about him.
We chatted for a few minutes. Seems to know his stuff. He is checking the motor and the capacitor and resisistor.
I should know in a few days what burned. I hope its the capacitor because ordering a motor seems to be more trouble than organizing a wedding.
I appreciate the help. I'll post when I find out what the problem is.
OK watchvet, that seems a lot simpler and convenient for you! I also hope it's the resistor or capacitor, because, like you said... LOL
there might be a possibility it's the winding in the motor, in which case it would impossible, at least visually, to see that. the failing capacitor seems like a much more likely failure.
there might be a possibility it's the winding in the motor, in which case it would impossible, at least visually, to see that. the failing capacitor seems like a much more likely failure.
I did a quick search on the net, which led me back to good old diyaudio, check this link out: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=352532
I think the value they mention is a bit high, but I have only a tapedeck synchronous motor to compare to... So 3,3kohms seems like as good a value as any, albeit around 5 to 7 watts. He said 3 watts worked for him, but I'm thinking reliability here... His cap value is 0.2 microfarads at 250V (polyester type if that makes any difference, although I have seem electrolytics serving this role also).
I hope that helps!
I think the value they mention is a bit high, but I have only a tapedeck synchronous motor to compare to... So 3,3kohms seems like as good a value as any, albeit around 5 to 7 watts. He said 3 watts worked for him, but I'm thinking reliability here... His cap value is 0.2 microfarads at 250V (polyester type if that makes any difference, although I have seem electrolytics serving this role also).
I hope that helps!
Hi Watchvet,
It's great news that only the resistor is burnt out !
I'm not able to help much on the specific resistor/ capacitor values, as I only know the UK figures. However, I think the capacitor value is likely to be in the region of 0.18µf, rather than the 0.22µf we are used to in Europe. That's because the motor will be running at 300 rpm, derived from the 60Hz line frequency, instead of the 250 rpm usual in the UK or Europe, where the line frequency is 50 Hz.
I defer to gain-wire on this, as he is based in Canada, though I'm not sure a tape motor is a suitable guide. It depends mainly on the voltage marked on the label at the bottom of the Systemdek's motor, which your tech should look at. If this says 110 volts, as many of these motors do, maybe 3.3 kohms is the correct resistor. If the deck came from our part of the world, it will, of course, have been fitted with a resistor as standard, and 6.8 kohms is the value suggested when connecting to a 230 volt supply.
HTH,
Mark
It's great news that only the resistor is burnt out
!I'm not able to help much on the specific resistor/ capacitor values, as I only know the UK figures. However, I think the capacitor value is likely to be in the region of 0.18µf, rather than the 0.22µf we are used to in Europe. That's because the motor will be running at 300 rpm, derived from the 60Hz line frequency, instead of the 250 rpm usual in the UK or Europe, where the line frequency is 50 Hz.
I defer to gain-wire on this, as he is based in Canada, though I'm not sure a tape motor is a suitable guide. It depends mainly on the voltage marked on the label at the bottom of the Systemdek's motor, which your tech should look at. If this says 110 volts, as many of these motors do, maybe 3.3 kohms is the correct resistor. If the deck came from our part of the world, it will, of course, have been fitted with a resistor as standard, and 6.8 kohms is the value suggested when connecting to a 230 volt supply.
HTH,
Mark
hmm, well thanks for telling me that, I wouldn't have guessed the resistor was there for THAT reason. funny cause I've seen synchronous motors use a series resistor before and those motors were not made to operate on 220V...
you're right on that capacitor thing though. Oh well I guess, go with the 0.18uF then, watchvet!
you're right on that capacitor thing though. Oh well I guess, go with the 0.18uF then, watchvet!
Systemdeck II Premotec Turntable Motor
The resistor in the drive circuit is there to reduce the voltage, which in turn reduces the torque and the amount of motor vibration. This obviously improves the drive to the platter!
The same circuit is used by Naim Audio in the Armageddon PSU for the Linn Sondek LP12. They have a 430VA toroid which drops the 230V to 110V, then feed it through a 3K3 5W resistor and use a 0.22uF 250V Polyester phase capacitor (blue phase), for 230V 50Hz operation.
You will need a 0.18uF 250V Polyester capacitor (blue phase) and 3K3 5W wire wound resistor for the 110V 60Hz mains your turntable is powered from. (without the transformer!) There should be around 85V RMS over the Red phase of the motor when you are done.
Hope this helps
Regards
Peter
The resistor in the drive circuit is there to reduce the voltage, which in turn reduces the torque and the amount of motor vibration. This obviously improves the drive to the platter!
The same circuit is used by Naim Audio in the Armageddon PSU for the Linn Sondek LP12. They have a 430VA toroid which drops the 230V to 110V, then feed it through a 3K3 5W resistor and use a 0.22uF 250V Polyester phase capacitor (blue phase), for 230V 50Hz operation.
You will need a 0.18uF 250V Polyester capacitor (blue phase) and 3K3 5W wire wound resistor for the 110V 60Hz mains your turntable is powered from. (without the transformer!) There should be around 85V RMS over the Red phase of the motor when you are done.
Hope this helps
Regards
Peter
Peter:
You were right on the money with the capacitor and resistor values.
I gave the tech a copy of your post and that's what he ordered. After handing over 50 bucks, I got the turntable back yesterday and I am now sitting here enjoying that wonderful analog music again!
So thanks a million to you in South Africa..... and to markinuk and gain-wire in Ottawa who made suggestions and pointed out it may not have been the motor after all.
This website and all you folks saved me about 600 bucks for a new turntable that I would have needed to get the same quality I have been used to with the Systemdek/Rega 300/Linn K9 combination.
I'll make a donation.
Martin.
You were right on the money with the capacitor and resistor values.
I gave the tech a copy of your post and that's what he ordered. After handing over 50 bucks, I got the turntable back yesterday and I am now sitting here enjoying that wonderful analog music again!
So thanks a million to you in South Africa..... and to markinuk and gain-wire in Ottawa who made suggestions and pointed out it may not have been the motor after all.
This website and all you folks saved me about 600 bucks for a new turntable that I would have needed to get the same quality I have been used to with the Systemdek/Rega 300/Linn K9 combination.
I'll make a donation.
Martin.
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