Go Back   Home > Forums > >
Home Forums Rules Articles diyAudio Store Blogs Gallery Wiki Register Donations FAQ Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Analog Line Level Preamplifiers , Passive Pre-amps, Crossovers, etc.

Commercial crossover or DIY?
Commercial crossover or DIY?
Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 2nd April 2015, 10:03 PM   #1
Trileru is offline Trileru  Romania
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Default Commercial crossover or DIY?

Hello,
I want to biamp my speakers (Wharfedale Diamond 10.1) and I need a crossover.
My amp is a Marantz 4230 (quadradial) and it has 4 separate amplifiers inside, as well as 4 inputs for each.
So I was thinking of either diy-ing a Linkwitz-Riley 4th order active crossover that I can set the crossover frequency like my speakers passive crossover did, or buying a commercial one like a Behringer CX2300 (not cx2310!).
I don't have a lot of cash and I can get the CX2300 for 50$. It's upgradeable as well, all through hole components. Has more features than the diy route, and also a case. That's what bothers me the most at diy, cases. Expensive to buy separate.
Diy route I can try and get the pcb done locally for 5$ or so, or order from FusionPCB 10 pieces for 20$ and have a double sided pcb. Then there's the cost of the capacitors. Can't get away with less than 10-12$ only for them. Then power supply / transformer etc.
Even if I replace some parts in the cx2300 I still have a case/knobs/leds
Behringer CX2310 is a joke inside, lunchbox:
http://dcx2496.caraudiotechnique.com...300-cx2310.jpg
Behringer CX2300 is something else:
http://84.255.203.119/cx2300/IMG_0001.JPG
I can also upgrade it with output transformers from a Behringer DI4000 if I find a cheap one (has 4 Behringer OT-1 transformers inside that fit on the crossover board). If that would make any improvement to the crossover. Can experiment though.
Also the CX2300 is claimed to have a Linkwitz-Riley 24 dB/octave inside.
I also found the complete schematics for it.
I already diy-ied a Linkwitz-Riley crossover pcb about one year ago but for 2.1 output. That is not useful in this situation as I need 2x2 channels output.
I would also get the nice XLR connectors with the CX2300 (not that they are useful at the moment, maybe later when I have a balanced source).
Being knob adjusted I'd have at first to check the crossover point on oscilloscope but then it's fixed.
Also with the CX2300 I can adjust each channel gain as there's a 5db difference between the SPL of tweeter/midbass drivers. At least that's what the passive speaker crossover tells me.
Crossover frequency with level offset for the tweeter works out at about 1.85KHz.
I attached the difference between speaker passive/low level active crossover. There's no contest, and phase is great with active.
Attached Images
File Type: png passive.png (296.2 KB, 198 views)
File Type: png active.png (252.1 KB, 195 views)
  Reply With Quote
Old 2nd April 2015, 10:27 PM   #2
sesebe is offline sesebe  Romania
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Iasi
If you like so much why you not buy?
  Reply With Quote
Old 2nd April 2015, 10:37 PM   #3
sreten is offline sreten  United Kingdom
R.I.P.
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Brighton UK
Hi,

How do you handle the inevitable BSC for the bassmid ?

rgds, sreten.
  Reply With Quote
Old 2nd April 2015, 10:39 PM   #4
Trileru is offline Trileru  Romania
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Well, the Behringer design is actually a State Variable Crossover that is also presented on Rod Elliott's site. Project 148 to be more exact. What I wanted to build is Project 09.
I see that Rod Elliott himself said he used the state variable design until he upgraded it to the project 9 design.
Also weirdly enough I see that he presents the state variable crossover as 12db/octave while Behringer says it's 24db/octave. I had a look at the datasheet and it looks very close to the Rod Elliot's design.
I'm not sure if the overall result would be better (sq wise) by building myself project 9 or upgrading the cx2300. I would have all the extra features (like a case for starters )
  Reply With Quote
Old 2nd April 2015, 10:40 PM   #5
jplesset is offline jplesset  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Oregon City, Oregon
You may want to consider a mini-dsp. There you get crossover AND BSC you can program. I've gone digital simply for the accuracy over my DIY 2.1 LR 4 I did 20 years ago.
  Reply With Quote
Old 2nd April 2015, 10:48 PM   #6
Trileru is offline Trileru  Romania
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by sreten View Post
Hi,

How do you handle the inevitable BSC for the bassmid ?

rgds, sreten.
I didn't think of that actually

I presume this would be a good start?

An externally hosted image should be here but it no longer works. Please upload images instead of linking to them to prevent this.
  Reply With Quote
Old 2nd April 2015, 10:52 PM   #7
Trileru is offline Trileru  Romania
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by jplesset View Post
You may want to consider a mini-dsp. There you get crossover AND BSC you can program. I've gone digital simply for the accuracy over my DIY 2.1 LR 4 I did 20 years ago.
Indeed but it's only 48kHz at my price point.
I would prefer to get a DCX2496 if I had the cash...
  Reply With Quote
Old 2nd April 2015, 11:02 PM   #8
sreten is offline sreten  United Kingdom
R.I.P.
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Brighton UK
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trileru View Post
I didn't think of that actually

I presume this would be a good start?

An externally hosted image should be here but it no longer works. Please upload images instead of linking to them to prevent this.
Hi,

Could be built into the active x/o, but like RE's site electrical
L/R 4th order is nearly always wrong due to the drivers.
Proper acoustic 4th order x/o's are nothing like electrical.
Look at Zaphs site : zaphaudio.com

rgds, sreten.
  Reply With Quote
Old 2nd April 2015, 11:12 PM   #9
Trileru is offline Trileru  Romania
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Thanks Sreten,
I see that this speaker's drivers are a bit buried inside the enclosure at least 5mm deep.
Will check out Zaphs site.
So you say to research 4th order passive?
  Reply With Quote
Old 2nd April 2015, 11:21 PM   #10
Trileru is offline Trileru  Romania
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
This is the original passive crossover of the speaker. Values are as measured, not as noted on the parts.
Attached Images
File Type: png Screen Shot 2015-04-03 at 02.19.59.png (116.9 KB, 163 views)
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Commercial crossover or DIY?Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
DIY to compete with commercial soundwavesteve Tubes / Valves 20 21st November 2014 02:05 AM
DIY repackaging of a commercial amplifier? jkuetemann Solid State 0 10th July 2013 11:50 PM
Upgrade from DIY to commercial pixpop Analogue Source 12 18th September 2012 03:58 AM
DIY or just buy commercial? Jussi Multi-Way 27 2nd May 2011 02:42 PM
Commercial or DIY amps Dr_EM Solid State 48 20th May 2008 06:12 AM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 11:42 AM.


Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Resources saved on this page: MySQL 14.29%
vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright ©1999-2020 diyAudio
Wiki