After spending time playing with winISD and searching around, I found that I really don't know what is more of a priority or which has more of an impact on the final sound of the design I'd be creating. What does the Max SPL tell me, is it or the SPL graph more important?Or neither? For example I have a few designs where one sub has better low end extension, but has a lower max SPL compared to a different design with less low end but plays louder. (everything else being equal) What I`m asking is, which design would be better to get a good bass?
Speaker design if more often than not, a tradeoff. It's all a matter of what's important to YOU.
For me, being able to play loudly without distortion is more important that the bottom octave. Anyway, room gain is going to provide increased low frequency response that does not show up on the ISD plots.
There are plenty of woofers that will provide good low end extension and high SPL. Increase what you are willing to spend, buy a more powerful amp or add additional woofers. Those are all options. In my setup I have 2 12" per channel in sealed enclosures with an F3 for 50Hz. My bass is nice and tight and there is plenty of it.
Where most people might have a sofa, two chairs and a coffee table in the living room, I have a love seat, speakers, TV and room treatment. I want a system that won't give up the ghost when playing at rock concert levels. Those are my priorities. You'll have your own set. Define those first.
For me, being able to play loudly without distortion is more important that the bottom octave. Anyway, room gain is going to provide increased low frequency response that does not show up on the ISD plots.
There are plenty of woofers that will provide good low end extension and high SPL. Increase what you are willing to spend, buy a more powerful amp or add additional woofers. Those are all options. In my setup I have 2 12" per channel in sealed enclosures with an F3 for 50Hz. My bass is nice and tight and there is plenty of it.
Where most people might have a sofa, two chairs and a coffee table in the living room, I have a love seat, speakers, TV and room treatment. I want a system that won't give up the ghost when playing at rock concert levels. Those are my priorities. You'll have your own set. Define those first.
As Bill implies, 'good' will mean different things to each of us so there's no straight answer to your question.Theli said:
You need to know the approximate levels you listen to music, then the max SPL graph may help. I would say it's probably the least important however. I personally don't listen at ear shattering levels so low end is often more important to me. But then don't forget room gain as Bill mentions, and it's also pointless IMO to have low end extension with increased distortion - so this is where the excursion vs frequency graphs, port speed, and delay graphs will be useful. And lets's not forget the main one, a flat frequency response is generally accepted as better than a humpy one 😉
To answer your question...the 'Max SPL' plot tells you what the limits of the driver in that alignment are. The limits are either going to be the power handling limit or excursion limit depending on the driver and frequency. The 'SPL' plot tells you the spl with whatever power level you enter in the 'Signal' tab. Keep in mind that just because you put a certain wattage in doesn't mean the SPL levels in the plot are acheivable, it only tells you the theoretical SPL, refer to the Max SPL tab to see if the levels in your SPL plot are possible.
Of course there is room gain, amplifier transfer function, etc., but Win ISD does give you a good idea of what will happen.
Of course there is room gain, amplifier transfer function, etc., but Win ISD does give you a good idea of what will happen.
Can I add room gain in WinISD to see what will be the frequency response when it'll be in a room?
If you draw a straight line from 0db at 125Hz to +12db at 10Hz, that will approximate room gain - give or take.
Bill Fitzpatrick said:
what I`m trying to do is go for the unobtrusive look...I like the "clean" uncluttered look to my home..so I'm looking for small.compact. besides all I have is a micro system, it doesnt play very loud, and it doesn't need too 🙂 So I don't need huuuge bass 😀
Theli said:
Sorry, I don't know anything about car systems.
Theli said:
Sorry, I don't know anything about tiny systems.
Thank you for your estimation Bill, but can I enter that parameter into WinISD with an equalizer or something?
simon5 said:
should be able to do this in WinISD PRO with a parametric eq but i've not tried this so someone correct me if i'm wrong
it's dependant on 'Q'
look at this link - http://www.prosoundweb.com/studyhall/lastudyhall/bandwidthchart.pdf
10Hz to 120Hz is 4.5 octaves and has a Q of 0.22
in the EQ tab select parametric EQ and enter 10Hz 12dB and 0.22Q
HOWEVER this adds to the driver excursion so you'll have to disable the filter when checking cone excursion
Theli said:
I would haigly recommend a Peerless XLS 10" Passive radiator system. It can be made very small with good low end extension and decent SPL.
I tried your trick Synergy, it looks very good, thank you!
It just seems too good to be true... about 118 dB SPL from 18 Hz to 100 Hz ± 1 dB with a 250W amp... !!!
It just seems too good to be true... about 118 dB SPL from 18 Hz to 100 Hz ± 1 dB with a 250W amp... !!!
Well it looks exactly the same as the Adire curve supplied with the design. So the curve is correct but maybe SPL is a bit too high.
jjdche said:
well, looking at the specs, it seems that it would be overkill for my needs and my exiting system. But without having anything to compare it to, I`m not sure. But its definitely more than I want to spend at the moment 🙂
Room gain (An Old Thread Re-Animated [Hi Bill])
Is this irrespective of room size?
How did you calculate this? It certainly makes WinISD curves look good 🙂
Bill Fitzpatrick said:
Is this irrespective of room size?
How did you calculate this? It certainly makes WinISD curves look good 🙂
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