which PCB material sounds best ???

[mikelm]

I'm just designing my first ever PCB....🙂

Any opinions on which board SOUNDS best ?

Have you noticed any different sound qualities with different materials ?

 

[lineup]

Best if PCB makes as little sound as possible.
If it does, tell it to:

Shut up!

😀

 

[AKSA]

Teflon substrate. Lowest dielectric constant, very high insulation resistance, so lowest parasitics.

Downside: Expensive, somewhat plastic, tends to 'flow'.

But good layout remains the most important factor.

Cheers,

Hugh

 

[anatech]

Experiment: Use ceramic standoffs and go point to point in sensitive areas. Air dielectric.

Now if you get all secretive and pot the entire works, It'll sound different. 😀

-Chris

 

[Steve Eddy]

I'm just designing my first ever PCB....🙂

Any opinions on which board SOUNDS best ?

Don't care much for the glass/epoxy or Teflon boards. I actually rather prefer FR-2, which is a paper/phenolic laminate. Have some cotton/phenolic I'm looking to experiment with but haven't used it yet. Can't find it in copper clad so I plan to use eyelets and point wiring for a sort of hybrid approach.

se

 

[forr]

An advice from Hiraga twenty years ago.
Best material for PCB : air. No PCB at all.

~~~~~~~~ Forr

§§§

 

[mastertech]

I'll tell you what base material i like best phenolic and various variants that i have
come across from france and germany they have enough strength not to cause
mechanical problems and are soft to frabricate (cutting,drilling,punching,etc)
i dont like fibre-class especially for protos and diy work but i guess these do have
their applications too

cheers

 

[anatech]

Gee ...

Almost everything I prototype and build is either FR4 or G10. All my older stuff I build in the 70's on phenolic (proto's) has warped. I always found the copper came off easily. Not good for prototyping. The epoxy boards don't seem to have that problem.

-Chris

 

[Peter Daniel]

You may check this post: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=423953#post423953

 

[pinkmouse]

Mine's a purely practical reply, Mike. 😉

For a new design, you will go through at least half a dozen prototypes to get it right. Use cheap phenolic to start, then, when the layout is right, that's when you can start thinking exotic.

al/has a strange suspicion that the thread will conclude with the most expensive material decided to sound the best...

 

[Peter Daniel]

Hey Al, the air is free after all😉

My early GC were p2p, later I started using boards and I didn't find that I was loosing anything in terms of sound signature. Actually one person reported it sounded better with the boards.

I'm still not sure how much gold plating affects the sound though.

 

[anatech]

Hi Al,
No question about that! I tend to perfect stages and modify the heck out of each board before designing another with what I've learned. I have cut down the number of boards immensely.

Still, not much difference in labour between "glass epoxy" and "rigid paper". The holes are neater with epoxy, not blown out on one side (in a hurry). I have a tiny tablesaw that measures roughly 4" X 6" to cut small boards with. I wish I could find some replacement blades for it.

-Chris

 

[pinkmouse]

Hey Al, the air is free after all😉

Only 'till "they" can work out how to charge us for it!

I'm still not sure how much gold plating affects the sound though.

Nether am I, but it sure looks cool! 😉

I must admit, I like pcb designing, it gives me real satisfaction. But then every now and again, I remember my P2P GCs, and a tear comes to my eye...

 

[pinkmouse]

Chris

The main difference is economic, phenolic is about 2/3 the price over here, and it doesn't kill drill bits quite so quickly either!

What dimension/kind of blades are they? I have a really good tool supplier locally.

 

[anatech]

Hi Al,
When I find it Maybe here post 246.
I'll take a picture of blade and machine with measurements. I haven't seen anything like it (was bought in the 'states too!).

Thanks for the assist!

I don't see phenolic around here, although someone must sell it.

So how about this idea for great sounding boards ... first you take a glass plate, carefully drilling the component holes. Then you take pure silver formed into tracks and .... It should sound very transparent. Possibly a touch on the brittle side, but very revealing ...
Okay, I'll stop. It's poobah's turn anyway.

-Chris

 

[mikelm]

Thanks guys - I think I use cheap paper based board and keep some critical stuff off the board

cheers...🙂

mike

 

[Jay]

Experiment: Use ceramic standoffs and go point to point in sensitive areas. Air dielectric.

I have done this or things similar (Also "master" PCBs that can be used for many kind of topologies). Actualy this is the most practical way I can find. It is difficult in the beginning but once experienced, it is quite easy.

Ordering PCB was very expensive and it was a pain preparing the gerber etc. Making my own PCB was also a pain, especially in making the holes. And it is often "hummy", or soundwise completely worse than "quick" PTP.

My idea is making IC with discrete components.

The problem I have is I still not quite sure about "sensitive" areas. I still not sure how to lay out the components for best result. For example, only lately I "coupled" transistors in differential ccs for negative and positive rails. It is just based on guess or intuition, that this should be better (don't have time to compare).

Another one I'm not sure with is, I still accept long path between component in ccs and devider resistors in diff transistor pair. But I keep the resistors as close possible to the transistors.

 

[poobah]

Anatech & Pinkmouse make the best points,

If you are making the board yourself... start with phenolic (Bakelite) and finish in glass (G10/FR4).

If you are having a board shop do it, do your homework and get it right the first time (bread board)... if you are un-sure about circuit options; include extra spaces for components/changes in your design.

Save your money, avoid exotics... they all have problems... they are built for special purposes, heat, high freqency (gHx) etc... You can improve audio quality by going to the record store and buying more music.

If you have teflon & silver speaker cables, and $30 capacitors... forget this post.



😀 😉

 

[Tweeker]

Tortilla-Board.

 

[poobah]

Tweeker,

You're a good man...

You do all know that the term "bread-board" came from the fact that people actually used to do P-P wiring on slabs of dried bread? It's true.

😀