like I need a subwoofer driver like the velodyne whre can i find them...?
it must have a magnet weight of about not less than 20 pounds...
12 inch......
any website...?
it must have a magnet weight of about not less than 20 pounds...
12 inch......
any website...?
Why would you need so much magnet weight? 20lbs is ALOT for just a magnet.
but Digital Designs, audio que and ascendant(son the 12"s will be out) and other extreme SPL car subs have huge magnets.
but Digital Designs, audio que and ascendant(son the 12"s will be out) and other extreme SPL car subs have huge magnets.
Thats more a function of the box than the magnet size, deep bass comes from a low FS and a large low tund box.
Velodyne subs have seriously huge magnets..
Bag End have the same large magnet and deep bass. Theres one on ebay: http://tinyurl.com/6clrb
Im sure there are some other brands I havent heard of though.
Bag End have the same large magnet and deep bass. Theres one on ebay: http://tinyurl.com/6clrb
Im sure there are some other brands I havent heard of though.
You could look at the Brahma 12" from Adire Audio
http://www.adireaudio.com/
Look in the Mobile section, the woofer weights 39 pounds in the 12" version.
http://www.adireaudio.com/
Look in the Mobile section, the woofer weights 39 pounds in the 12" version.
Magnet weight is basically meaningless. Its all about the grade of magnets being used, the BL flux factor inductance, and a number of other parameters will actually tell you something. But NEVER judge a driver on magnet size alone. Look at the JL w7 for example. Huge magnet, Huge overhung coil, high inductance. Now they call it 'tight' too, suckers. But theyre still decent subs. I would rather look for subs based on maximum displacement, mid qts and low fs!
BassAwdyO said:
Well said BassAwdy,
The size of the magnet is not as important as the type and stability of the magnets, plus the B gap and plates and yoke used.
There are so many magnet types and to me they yield different sounds in a sense.
Deep bass is more to do with bass alingment and the music and formate used, deep bass does not come from having big magnets, in fact bigger or more powerful magnets systems tend to have tighter more focused bass, this is what i have noticed from my tests.
Peerless have some nice models that are locally avalible to you in India i think.
I think Velodyn are no more?
If you can get the power to run a w7 you'd be a happy person....price is kinda killer though. I paid $550 retail for my 10" for my car and it needs a good 500-700w to get moving. I was sending 1100w to it and it really kicked ***. It's very accurate and never distorts.
I"ve heard DD subs in home theater apps and they sound great in the right box. I'd look at Adire for some damn fine subs too
I"ve heard DD subs in home theater apps and they sound great in the right box. I'd look at Adire for some damn fine subs too
cody6766 said:
ECA represent... lol...
Anyways, the problem with the W7, is that JL is stupid, and gave it a 3 ohm rating. With amps making max power at 4, 2, or 1 ohm, you're wasting availible power.
no ****. that' makes it a bit of a PITA to match it with anything than JL. But JL said it "sounds better" with a 3 ohm load. I doubt it makes one bit of a difference though.
diy,
All of as at some point had weird ideas about what makes a good sub that we have ditched in the light of a better understanding of theory and a bit more experience. Since you are still in the "weird ideas phase" I'd suggest hunting around a little more before you go and buy something. Too many people make a bad buying decision, then have something that can't really be made to work particularly well, when they could have bought something much better yet perhaps even cheaper.
I would suggest in choosing a sub, you would consider these factors as most important:
* price and value for money (considering also the amp you will need to drive it and how much it will cost)
* output capability (considering xmax and thermally limited power and simulated max SPL)
* motor design to reduce distortion and achieve linearity over its xmax range (shorting rings or XBL2 motors or competing technologies)
* suitability - required box size, if it can suit your requirements and alignment preferences
Other factors:
* construction quality of the driver
* appearance of the driver (does it look good?) - personal taste
The list goes on but I would focus on these things. Magnet size is a means to an end, and not really a valid criteria for choosing a driver from a performance point of view.
A good site to look at:
www.diysubwoofers.org
All of as at some point had weird ideas about what makes a good sub that we have ditched in the light of a better understanding of theory and a bit more experience. Since you are still in the "weird ideas phase" I'd suggest hunting around a little more before you go and buy something. Too many people make a bad buying decision, then have something that can't really be made to work particularly well, when they could have bought something much better yet perhaps even cheaper.
I would suggest in choosing a sub, you would consider these factors as most important:
* price and value for money (considering also the amp you will need to drive it and how much it will cost)
* output capability (considering xmax and thermally limited power and simulated max SPL)
* motor design to reduce distortion and achieve linearity over its xmax range (shorting rings or XBL2 motors or competing technologies)
* suitability - required box size, if it can suit your requirements and alignment preferences
Other factors:
* construction quality of the driver
* appearance of the driver (does it look good?) - personal taste
The list goes on but I would focus on these things. Magnet size is a means to an end, and not really a valid criteria for choosing a driver from a performance point of view.
A good site to look at:
www.diysubwoofers.org
I think the www.reaudio.com MT has the biggest motor ive seen, personally.
the 12" XXX weighs literally 50 lbs (i had one)..so the MT probably weighs 60+ lbs!
but for something that gets low, your probably going to want a larger driver.
www.AscendantAudio.com > Products > Avalanche 18"
that would probably be your best bet at getting super low bass at a good price...
the 12" XXX weighs literally 50 lbs (i had one)..so the MT probably weighs 60+ lbs!
but for something that gets low, your probably going to want a larger driver.
www.AscendantAudio.com > Products > Avalanche 18"
that would probably be your best bet at getting super low bass at a good price...
If getting tighter more forceful bass was merely a matter of using a bigger magnet, then drivers with bigger magnets would be better and there would be more subs with big magnets. There is no sense in this at all.
The XLS has a bigger magnet than the Shiva, yet the Shiva in typical designs achieves a lower F3. Magnet size is not the point!!!
Sure, a bigger magent looks better, but in a box you won't see it. Look at the parameters of a driver, simulate its performance before you decide that "bigger is better" with magnets.
Good design is about engineering compromises.
If you want a big magnet for the looks, thats fine, but using that approach you most likely won't get the best value for money.
The XLS has a bigger magnet than the Shiva, yet the Shiva in typical designs achieves a lower F3. Magnet size is not the point!!!
Sure, a bigger magent looks better, but in a box you won't see it. Look at the parameters of a driver, simulate its performance before you decide that "bigger is better" with magnets.
Good design is about engineering compromises.
If you want a big magnet for the looks, thats fine, but using that approach you most likely won't get the best value for money.
magnet design/size(sometimes) plays as big a part as any other driver spec as far as accuracy and in most cases it takes a powerful (not necessarily heavy) magnet to get the cone control you need to have tight bass. I think size plays more of a role in car audio than home audo because of the ammounts of power you're dealing with. Most home subs will never see 1 or 2kw on a daily basis, but most of the subs that have been disucssed here can do just that. I think the XXX has an RMS rating at some 1200 or 1600watts and the w7 can easily take 1kw on all models (not sure about the 8) and the 13 needs somewhere around 1.5kw to reach it's peak performance.
I don't think it's a matter of just slapping a big *** magnet on a poorly designed woofer, rather a well designed woofer for these power ranges needs a large magnet to control the large ammounts of power the woofers see. A woofer with a 125w RMS wouldn't need the same magnet power as a 1000w RMS woofer.
I think everyone in this thread is discussing the different points of the same argument😉
hope I didn't leave any thoughts out....I've had a few drinks. I'll check back in the morning
I don't think it's a matter of just slapping a big *** magnet on a poorly designed woofer, rather a well designed woofer for these power ranges needs a large magnet to control the large ammounts of power the woofers see. A woofer with a 125w RMS wouldn't need the same magnet power as a 1000w RMS woofer.
I think everyone in this thread is discussing the different points of the same argument😉
hope I didn't leave any thoughts out....I've had a few drinks. I'll check back in the morning
Cody,
I find it pretty backward that people put more power into their car audio subs than their home subs! A small midbass driver in a car can easily get the kind of bass you would get with a half decent sub in the house! But perhaps I'm overlooking the fact that there might not be anyone to complain in the car about the volume ...
That depends on what type of power you are talking about. There is thermally limited power and excursion limited power. To get greater excursion, you usually have a greater VC height. However all VCs are not created equal since XBL2 drivers have a much shorter VC for a given xmax - the p-p xmax can be nearly 2.5x the VC height, in contrast to a typical driver in which the xmax p-p is usually the VC minus the gap plate height.
Another factor is the type of motor design - overhung, underhung, XBL2 etc.
If you are talking about thermally limited power, then this is influenced by the means of heatsinking the coil as well as the coil diameter, etc.
A larger magnet does not necessarily mean more excursion or more power. Quite often PA drivers have very high power (thermal), without having particularly large magnets. This is often because they have a larger diameter VC and they don't require the same extension as a home audio sub.
Car subs need to focus on more thermal power rather than excursion limited power, since due to cabin gain, they are typically thermal power limited rather than excursion limited. Although I'm not that much into car audio, when I have simulated subs for car use factoring in cabin gain, for both vented and sealed boxes, they ran out of thermal power long before all the excursion was used.
I believe magnet size is also related to Qts, so that, all other things being equal, a larger magnet will also mean a lower Qts. This will affect the suitable alignment and so it should be noted again that "bigger is not always better."
Also it pays to pay more attention to BL rather than the actual physical size of the magnet.
Here's some food for thought from
http://www.tcsounds.com/TC7.htm
re: TC7 drivers:
"The low moving mass, and low BL product make for low back EMF - in turn, lowering 2nd order harmonics."
This driver has a fairly low BL around 12 and a fairly high Qts of 0.6 which makes it suitable for infinite baffle or sealed boxes. The TC2 on the other hand, looks like it has a smaller magnet, but in fact the BL is higher! The TC9 has a bigger magnet again and a BL of 20, which also shows up in the low Qts of 0.2. It has a slightly higher thermal rating than the other drivers and is designed for small vented boxes.
All this is coming back to my main point, that "bigger is better" with magnets is not necessarily true. It's a bit simplistic, and magnet size is not really the deciding factor. Yes, good quality drivers often need big magnets. The Adire Sadhara has a very large magnet for a 12" driver. But it does not follow that a bigger magnet is better.
I find it pretty backward that people put more power into their car audio subs than their home subs! A small midbass driver in a car can easily get the kind of bass you would get with a half decent sub in the house! But perhaps I'm overlooking the fact that there might not be anyone to complain in the car about the volume ...
That depends on what type of power you are talking about. There is thermally limited power and excursion limited power. To get greater excursion, you usually have a greater VC height. However all VCs are not created equal since XBL2 drivers have a much shorter VC for a given xmax - the p-p xmax can be nearly 2.5x the VC height, in contrast to a typical driver in which the xmax p-p is usually the VC minus the gap plate height.
Another factor is the type of motor design - overhung, underhung, XBL2 etc.
If you are talking about thermally limited power, then this is influenced by the means of heatsinking the coil as well as the coil diameter, etc.
A larger magnet does not necessarily mean more excursion or more power. Quite often PA drivers have very high power (thermal), without having particularly large magnets. This is often because they have a larger diameter VC and they don't require the same extension as a home audio sub.
Car subs need to focus on more thermal power rather than excursion limited power, since due to cabin gain, they are typically thermal power limited rather than excursion limited. Although I'm not that much into car audio, when I have simulated subs for car use factoring in cabin gain, for both vented and sealed boxes, they ran out of thermal power long before all the excursion was used.
I believe magnet size is also related to Qts, so that, all other things being equal, a larger magnet will also mean a lower Qts. This will affect the suitable alignment and so it should be noted again that "bigger is not always better."
Also it pays to pay more attention to BL rather than the actual physical size of the magnet.
Here's some food for thought from
http://www.tcsounds.com/TC7.htm
re: TC7 drivers:
"The low moving mass, and low BL product make for low back EMF - in turn, lowering 2nd order harmonics."
This driver has a fairly low BL around 12 and a fairly high Qts of 0.6 which makes it suitable for infinite baffle or sealed boxes. The TC2 on the other hand, looks like it has a smaller magnet, but in fact the BL is higher! The TC9 has a bigger magnet again and a BL of 20, which also shows up in the low Qts of 0.2. It has a slightly higher thermal rating than the other drivers and is designed for small vented boxes.
All this is coming back to my main point, that "bigger is better" with magnets is not necessarily true. It's a bit simplistic, and magnet size is not really the deciding factor. Yes, good quality drivers often need big magnets. The Adire Sadhara has a very large magnet for a 12" driver. But it does not follow that a bigger magnet is better.
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