Hi all,
I'm trying to design a sub to add a bit of bottom end to a pair of bookshelf speakers.
I'm using this for a bit of mp3 based home mixing, mostly with all sorts of dance music. It's gonna be in a small room, and doesn't need to be that loud. The problem is... what low frequency should I aim for?
I know as low as possible is best, but since sub size and cost increases rapidly with every extra Hz I drop, I'm looking for a resonable value that will allow most of the bass lines and bass drums to come through clearly.
So what do we think?? I initially guessed at 40Hz for the 3db value - but that looks quite hard to get, and I haven't seen much on the market that can go that low on a budget.
60-70Hz maybe?
I'm trying to design a sub to add a bit of bottom end to a pair of bookshelf speakers.
I'm using this for a bit of mp3 based home mixing, mostly with all sorts of dance music. It's gonna be in a small room, and doesn't need to be that loud. The problem is... what low frequency should I aim for?
I know as low as possible is best, but since sub size and cost increases rapidly with every extra Hz I drop, I'm looking for a resonable value that will allow most of the bass lines and bass drums to come through clearly.
So what do we think?? I initially guessed at 40Hz for the 3db value - but that looks quite hard to get, and I haven't seen much on the market that can go that low on a budget.
60-70Hz maybe?
What is your budget? For like 30$ or less you can get a budget 8 or 10 or 12 or 15 inches subwoofer driver that will be able to play down to 25 Hz easily.
Since it doesn't need to be that loud and you probably don't want a huge box, go with a 8 inch driver with a Fs around 30 Hz. I guess -3 dB at 25 Hz can be achieved cheaply but 30 Hz won't be that bad.
Since it doesn't need to be that loud and you probably don't want a huge box, go with a 8 inch driver with a Fs around 30 Hz. I guess -3 dB at 25 Hz can be achieved cheaply but 30 Hz won't be that bad.
But is there really much musical information at 30hz?? I'm after that 'punchy' range that most dance music has, which comes accross quite well on a lot of cheaper systems. I don't need it to sound like the local flyboys in their bassed out hatchbacks 😉.
I guess I should burn some test tones on to CD so I can get an idea of what frequencies I want.
Also, doining a frequency analysis on some dance music would help I suppose.
I realise big drivers are quite cheap if quality isn't too important - but the box material and size is still significant. I've also got to figure out how to power it all - but I'll work that one out later 🙂
I guess I should burn some test tones on to CD so I can get an idea of what frequencies I want.
Also, doining a frequency analysis on some dance music would help I suppose.
I realise big drivers are quite cheap if quality isn't too important - but the box material and size is still significant. I've also got to figure out how to power it all - but I'll work that one out later 🙂
On dance music, you get bass down to maybe 30-40 Hz. It's true that under 30 Hz on dance music there's not much sound. It's needed for movies, classical, techno, rap/hiphop and some other artists.
Given your circumstances and budget, I think you should go for 40-50 Hz. For a start, a small room has room gain beginning higher up, so going down to 30 Hz is probably going to sound wrong -- possibly even slow -- not to mention the difficulty in getting to that frequency to start with.
For dance music, the punchy sound is got by rolling off not too low and having a peak around 80-90 Hz. On a budget, I'd look to build a vented 8 or 10 inch driver 25-30 litre design, crossed over to your mains with a little overlap to gain some peakiness. A cheap 100W amp should be plenty.
For dance music, the punchy sound is got by rolling off not too low and having a peak around 80-90 Hz. On a budget, I'd look to build a vented 8 or 10 inch driver 25-30 litre design, crossed over to your mains with a little overlap to gain some peakiness. A cheap 100W amp should be plenty.
Ah - excelent news!
That's kind of the frequencies I was thinking of. I have an 8" driver somewhere too that might do the job.
Now as for a cheap 100W amp... any ideas of a UK suplier that does suitable modules (240v)?? If not I have enough bits to develop PCBs so I guess it could be homemade.
That's kind of the frequencies I was thinking of. I have an 8" driver somewhere too that might do the job.
Now as for a cheap 100W amp... any ideas of a UK suplier that does suitable modules (240v)?? If not I have enough bits to develop PCBs so I guess it could be homemade.
Since you don't like the guys in bassed out hatchbacks, I'm not sure you'll like a peaky response. The dance track is already peaky and if your speaker system is also peaky then it's double peaky...
I don't know if there's a store like partsexpress in England, but here you can get for 20$ a DAYTON DC200-8 8" CLASSIC WOOFER with Fs of 29 Hz and several drivers like that. You can get so easily good and flat bass response down to 30 Hz for cheap in a little ported enclosure...
I don't know if there's a store like partsexpress in England, but here you can get for 20$ a DAYTON DC200-8 8" CLASSIC WOOFER with Fs of 29 Hz and several drivers like that. You can get so easily good and flat bass response down to 30 Hz for cheap in a little ported enclosure...
By based out, I meant the ones where all you can hear is a deep uncontrolled rumble that supposed to be a bass line, which is so loud that the car itself is resonating.
I have a cheap bass tube in my car, and feel that actually sounds quite good when the cuttoff is set right. It can get a bit out on some bass lines when they go lower than it can handle, but other than that it does a good job, and if it wasn't for the 12v issue, I'd just drag it into my office/studio!
As for cheap parts in the uk - there's a plentiful supply of bass drivers aimed at the PA and car audio markets. Amplification is more of a problem, but looking through the chip-amp section of this site has given me a few ideas.
I have a cheap bass tube in my car, and feel that actually sounds quite good when the cuttoff is set right. It can get a bit out on some bass lines when they go lower than it can handle, but other than that it does a good job, and if it wasn't for the 12v issue, I'd just drag it into my office/studio!
As for cheap parts in the uk - there's a plentiful supply of bass drivers aimed at the PA and car audio markets. Amplification is more of a problem, but looking through the chip-amp section of this site has given me a few ideas.
Don't forget about the used market for your amplification needs...! eBay and the like can save the day!
If there's plentiful supply for PA and car audio, maybe you can find something comparable to Dayton in UK!
If there's plentiful supply for PA and car audio, maybe you can find something comparable to Dayton in UK!
Simon5 you have a point about the double peakiness, but I would make the low-pass filter adjustable and so be able to tune to some extent to the desired effect.
As for amp modules, you can't go wrong with the OMP100 from BK Electronics who also do some drive units...
As for amp modules, you can't go wrong with the OMP100 from BK Electronics who also do some drive units...
Yes - I was alway planning to use an active passover with adjustable cutoff - then I can use with a variety of speakers, including some rather naff jbl control-1's 🙁
But never considered it for creating the effect I'm after.. cunning 😉
That mosfet module looks ideal.
The only real downer is by the time I've bought the amp, the mdf, and all the other bits, I'm at the same price as a resonable 10" active sub. However - there's something strangly fun about building speakers and I can paint it whatever damn colour I want too!
Cheers all 😀 😀 😀
But never considered it for creating the effect I'm after.. cunning 😉
That mosfet module looks ideal.
The only real downer is by the time I've bought the amp, the mdf, and all the other bits, I'm at the same price as a resonable 10" active sub. However - there's something strangly fun about building speakers and I can paint it whatever damn colour I want too!
Cheers all 😀 😀 😀
While you're at bk's site check out the 10" xls peerless - At £89 it's a bargain compared to its 12" bigger brother.
Cheers,
Rob
http://www.bkelec.com/new/HiFi/Drive_Units/Peerless/XLS10.htm
Cheers,
Rob
http://www.bkelec.com/new/HiFi/Drive_Units/Peerless/XLS10.htm
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