cowanrg said:
Good audio sounds like whatever sounds good to any particular individual. Why feel sad for them? They're satisfied with their purchase and are obviously getting an immense amount of pleasure listening to music with them.
Who should we REALLY feel sad for? The happy white van purchaser who's kickin' back groovin' to some tunes with a big grin on their face or the "audiophile" who's never really satisfied with anything for any length of time and who spends more time fretting, tweaking and upgrading their gear than listening to music purely for the sake of music?
I wish I were an animator. I'd love to do a little vignette with the "audiophile" as Sisyphus, struggling, straining and agonizing trying to push his rock of an audio system to the top of the hill of Sonic Bliss.
After a moment the non-audiophile struts by with nothing but a cheap boom box, so wholly immersed in the music that he's totally oblivious to the Sisyphusian audiophile and just as happy as he could ever be.
So again, who should we REALLY feel sad for?
se
its very intersting to me why they chose speakers as a product? they probably looked at the company called bose, and realized if they can legitimately sell crap and have people LOVE it, then there has to be a future for them.
truth is, most people have NO idea what good speakers sound like.
ON-topic, there is nothing worth using in those things. i have a friend who is a repairguy for audio, and he gets them brought into his shop quite often, and he says there is really nothing you can do except replace the crossover, drivers, and cabinet. everything about them is bad.
truth is, most people have NO idea what good speakers sound like.
ON-topic, there is nothing worth using in those things. i have a friend who is a repairguy for audio, and he gets them brought into his shop quite often, and he says there is really nothing you can do except replace the crossover, drivers, and cabinet. everything about them is bad.
cowanrg said:
But what exactly constitutes a "good speaker"? What if a speaker sounds good to you, but doesn't sound so good to someone else? Does that make it a "good speaker"? By the same token, what if a speaker sounds good to someone else, but doesn't sound so good to you? Would that be a "good speaker" or a "bad speaker"?
se
Hi,
A Bose speaker obviously...they must be the best speaker and just like Adolf's Volkswagen they suit everyone's taste.
Good post isn't it?
Didn't think so...😉
A Bose speaker obviously...they must be the best speaker and just like Adolf's Volkswagen they suit everyone's taste.
Good post isn't it?
Didn't think so...😉
what i said was pretty clear and IMO should not have any confusion.
bose is not what a GOOD speaker sounds like. a good speaker is something that is able to properly reproduce what signal its getting. some speakers do this, others dont. there is a large difference between a speaker making sound, and one reproducing reality. IMO, bose simply turns the music into a sound, not really even trying to make it sound like the original.
there is taste to be applied in these assessments of what a speaker does, but i think to some degree, we could discount some things as "good" speakers (piezo buzzers, etc..) whereas they may produce sound indicative of the source, it is not a recreation of it, but merely a false representation of it.
bose is not what a GOOD speaker sounds like. a good speaker is something that is able to properly reproduce what signal its getting. some speakers do this, others dont. there is a large difference between a speaker making sound, and one reproducing reality. IMO, bose simply turns the music into a sound, not really even trying to make it sound like the original.
there is taste to be applied in these assessments of what a speaker does, but i think to some degree, we could discount some things as "good" speakers (piezo buzzers, etc..) whereas they may produce sound indicative of the source, it is not a recreation of it, but merely a false representation of it.
Hold on a minute!
Steve's not suggesting we go out and buy speakers from a van, necessarily. Remember how excited everyone got when it was discovered that the RS 40-1197 is actually a Fostex FE-103 in a stamped basket? What if this is one of those things? If somebody has a pair of these and they don't mind ripping into them, then let's find out what exactly they are. Steve could be right. With a little tweaking they might be great.
Steve,
At first I couldn't believe what I was reading after all that nonsense on that e-whatever forum. I like the way you think.
Steve's not suggesting we go out and buy speakers from a van, necessarily. Remember how excited everyone got when it was discovered that the RS 40-1197 is actually a Fostex FE-103 in a stamped basket? What if this is one of those things? If somebody has a pair of these and they don't mind ripping into them, then let's find out what exactly they are. Steve could be right. With a little tweaking they might be great.
Steve,
At first I couldn't believe what I was reading after all that nonsense on that e-whatever forum. I like the way you think.
and what im saying is that i have ripped into them, our store did an article for a local newspaper, as well as a friend who had contributed his experience (he repairs speakers). they really are worthless.
it would be cool if you could just brace them up, put in a nice crossover, etc.. but it wouldnt be worth it.
it would be cool if you could just brace them up, put in a nice crossover, etc.. but it wouldnt be worth it.
At the age of 14 I bought a "Swiss" watch from some guy in Frankfurt who claimed he was willing to sell it cheap because he had an "emergency" and needed the cash for train fare to Hamburg. I was embarrased afterward because I though I had taken unfare advantage of him. My dad explained what had really happened and told me to cheer up as it was cheap education.
Maybe that guy moved on from watches to speakers.
Maybe that guy moved on from watches to speakers.
cowanrg said:
Without any qualifications as to what constitutes a "good speaker" I found it rather ambiguous.
Ok. That's one definition. But what if the one listening to such a speaker doesn't particularly like it? Does that mean it's a bad speaker or a bad listener?
But it's ALL a false representation. Purely an illusion.
se
Re: Hold on a minute!
Nope. Wasn't suggesting that at all. Just saying that if someone buys a pair and enjoys listening to them, they're a "good speaker." Basically I'm just saying that "good speaker" is ultimately in the ear of the beholder. At least the only "good speaker" that has any particular meaning to the listener. All the objective specs and measurements are for naught if the listener doesn't enjoy the results.
Thank you for the kind words. Though I'm afraid you lost me on the "e-whatever forum" reference.
se
Timn8ter said:
Nope. Wasn't suggesting that at all. Just saying that if someone buys a pair and enjoys listening to them, they're a "good speaker." Basically I'm just saying that "good speaker" is ultimately in the ear of the beholder. At least the only "good speaker" that has any particular meaning to the listener. All the objective specs and measurements are for naught if the listener doesn't enjoy the results.
Thank you for the kind words. Though I'm afraid you lost me on the "e-whatever forum" reference.
se
Hi,
In this particular case it would make for a bad listener.
When was that appointment with that shrink again?
Wait a minute....as far as the Bose speakers are concerned you're spot on, they're absolutely false in the way they portray the source.
I guess you should prove that though....😉
In this particular case it would make for a bad listener.
When was that appointment with that shrink again?
Wait a minute....as far as the Bose speakers are concerned you're spot on, they're absolutely false in the way they portray the source.
I guess you should prove that though....😉
im not necessarily speaking in pure fact here, im just trying to see if its possible to nail down what makes a good and bad speaker.
surely, we could all agree tapping rythmically on the side of a cardboard box is a poor speaker, where a set of wilson audio ____'s would be a good speaker (maybe not YOUR taste, but certainly not a bad speaker, but in same way maybe not the BEST either).
in some ways, my definition is flawed. for instance, my favorite speaker right now is either my new maggies 🙂 , or the sonus fabre crenoma auditor. those babies are marvelous! the thing i like about them so much, more so than their realism, is the fact they make music sound enticing. they draw you in and make you LIKE what you are hearing (at least to me). its like they have charisma. whether or not its true to the source or not is another story, it doesnt really come into the assessment for me in this case.
i had a fellow co-worker that went to the infinity labs in california and heard their speakers tested in a anechoic chamber. he said they sounded IDENTICAL to their recording. (you would talk in the chamber, they record it, and play it back to you through their speakers). he was amazed how accurately they did this. i would not consider infinity the best speaker, and in some cases not even good. however, by my original definition it was good.
i think a new definition of a good speaker is in order. and im just not 100% sure about what it is, although i do know is that bose should be excluded from the category of good.
surely, we could all agree tapping rythmically on the side of a cardboard box is a poor speaker, where a set of wilson audio ____'s would be a good speaker (maybe not YOUR taste, but certainly not a bad speaker, but in same way maybe not the BEST either).
in some ways, my definition is flawed. for instance, my favorite speaker right now is either my new maggies 🙂 , or the sonus fabre crenoma auditor. those babies are marvelous! the thing i like about them so much, more so than their realism, is the fact they make music sound enticing. they draw you in and make you LIKE what you are hearing (at least to me). its like they have charisma. whether or not its true to the source or not is another story, it doesnt really come into the assessment for me in this case.
i had a fellow co-worker that went to the infinity labs in california and heard their speakers tested in a anechoic chamber. he said they sounded IDENTICAL to their recording. (you would talk in the chamber, they record it, and play it back to you through their speakers). he was amazed how accurately they did this. i would not consider infinity the best speaker, and in some cases not even good. however, by my original definition it was good.
i think a new definition of a good speaker is in order. and im just not 100% sure about what it is, although i do know is that bose should be excluded from the category of good.
Hi,
All Sonus Fabers I heard are definitely coloured, the Maggies are better.
Nice treat but once in your room all that will be meaningless...
Cheers,😉
All Sonus Fabers I heard are definitely coloured, the Maggies are better.
Nice treat but once in your room all that will be meaningless...
Cheers,😉
fdegrove said:
So it's basically about elitism and looking down on those who may derive their pleasure from those things which you would not necessarily give you pleasure?
se
Just an observation here. Since it's not really possible for anyone to hear exactly what someone else hears, then is it not possible that everyones ears are different, maybe having more or less sensitivity at various frequencies.
If this is the case, then isn't it reasonable that if the speaker reproduces sound exactly true to the original, then it will sound natural, but a speaker which colours the sound in some way, may in fact sound better to the listener, if the colouration matches up with, and makes up for natural deficiencies in the listeners ears???
Not suggesting for a minute that really bad speakers are anything more than that, but maybe that would explain why it's so hard to say what makes a good speaker. All advice I have seen regarding buying commercial speakers, is that you should listen to as many as possible until you find one you like the sound of. Maybe that's because nothing is perfect, and you have to find which imperfection you prefer, but maybe there is more to it than that.
Regards,
Tony.
If this is the case, then isn't it reasonable that if the speaker reproduces sound exactly true to the original, then it will sound natural, but a speaker which colours the sound in some way, may in fact sound better to the listener, if the colouration matches up with, and makes up for natural deficiencies in the listeners ears???
Not suggesting for a minute that really bad speakers are anything more than that, but maybe that would explain why it's so hard to say what makes a good speaker. All advice I have seen regarding buying commercial speakers, is that you should listen to as many as possible until you find one you like the sound of. Maybe that's because nothing is perfect, and you have to find which imperfection you prefer, but maybe there is more to it than that.
Regards,
Tony.
cowanrg said:
How 'bout this definition:
A good speaker is whatever sounds good to any particular individual.
Conversely:
A bad speaker is whatever sounds bad to any particular individual.
What do you think?
se
Hi,
As far as I'm concerned you may just as well shut down the forum.
Enjoy listening to your casseroles as much as you can regardless of whether the sound has any bearing to the truth.
Elitism has no bearing to it AFAIC and I even resent that remark.
Cheers,😉
As far as I'm concerned you may just as well shut down the forum.
Enjoy listening to your casseroles as much as you can regardless of whether the sound has any bearing to the truth.
Elitism has no bearing to it AFAIC and I even resent that remark.
Cheers,😉
wintermute said:
That's certainly reasonable. But it also goes beyond physiological differences. Even if everyone had the exact same hearing acquity, there would still be differing personal tastes and preferences.
Just look at the wide variety out there. Everything from high sensitivity hornspeakers to low sensitivity dynamics and everything in between, including those dreadfully bad planarmagnetics (just seeing if cowanrg's awake 🙂 ).
se
fdegrove said:
As Keates once said, "Beauty is truth, truth is beauty." And as the unknown author once said, "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder."
I dunno, calling a listener who prefers something other than what you would prefer a "bad listener" sounds rather elitist to me.
se
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