I took measurements in Soundeasy and went through the post processing of combining woofer responses and tweeter but have not yet had the chance to work the crossovers in Soundeasy and I will be travelling. I am nervous about bringing my Rockey so I would like to play around with the measurements in PCD. Does anyone know how to export the combined woofer responses (the tweeter response is less of an issue as it is unchanged) so that I can use it in PCD? It gets saved in the driver file but it seems to be saved as separate measurements that the program comes back and combines the way I told it to. Perhaps I am just too new with Soundeasy but everything else so far has gone smoothly.
I would also like to calibrate an uncalibrated mic with my calibrated one. I have measurements for both and after finding inconsistency in the nearfield but consistency in the farfield, I will likely build the chamber recommended at the ARTA site. Can anyone describe what software to use and how to find the difference between the two measurements and then combine this with the Calibration file from my calibrated mic?
Thanks,
Jay
I would also like to calibrate an uncalibrated mic with my calibrated one. I have measurements for both and after finding inconsistency in the nearfield but consistency in the farfield, I will likely build the chamber recommended at the ARTA site. Can anyone describe what software to use and how to find the difference between the two measurements and then combine this with the Calibration file from my calibrated mic?
Thanks,
Jay
Hi Jay,
I'm not sure what PCD is. I've used Soundeasy for a long time, and find its data handling to be very frustrating. I'd say you're likely to find the same. But look at the 'export' features. There are only a couple, so it will be easy to try.
Don't bother trying to calibrate your mike yourself - I don't think it is possible. Send your mike to Cross·Spectrum - Microphone Measurement Services - they do a great job, as does Kim Girardin. It is worth the $55 if you're serious about knowing what is going on acoustically, and is totally a deal when you consider how much time you'll save not fussing with it.
I'm not sure what PCD is. I've used Soundeasy for a long time, and find its data handling to be very frustrating. I'd say you're likely to find the same. But look at the 'export' features. There are only a couple, so it will be easy to try.
Don't bother trying to calibrate your mike yourself - I don't think it is possible. Send your mike to Cross·Spectrum - Microphone Measurement Services - they do a great job, as does Kim Girardin. It is worth the $55 if you're serious about knowing what is going on acoustically, and is totally a deal when you consider how much time you'll save not fussing with it.
I appreciate the feedback and I have tried the various export options without success in Soundeasy. Regarding mic calibration, it is really an exercise for me as I have a calibrated mic. I am practicing different methods and comparing results of my two ECM8000's, one of which Herb calibrated for me (at Cross Spectrum). Just looking for some additional direction, however.
Thanks,
Jay
Thanks,
Jay
There are several ways to export a driver's response with SE. Here is one way/
1) Open the driver file in question.
2) Go to the CAD screen and set up a simple circuit with an input node and the driver. It should look like this:
3) Open the Plotting screen and plot the response (in this example at node 0) INCLUDING DRIVER.
4) Go tot he Import/Export Data menu and select Export SPL /Phase at SPL dB (text File).
5) When the dialog screen opens save the file with a unique name.
The file will be saved with a TXT extension. So locate the file and change the extension to FRD and you should be all set.
1) Open the driver file in question.
2) Go to the CAD screen and set up a simple circuit with an input node and the driver. It should look like this:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
3) Open the Plotting screen and plot the response (in this example at node 0) INCLUDING DRIVER.
4) Go tot he Import/Export Data menu and select Export SPL /Phase at SPL dB (text File).
5) When the dialog screen opens save the file with a unique name.
The file will be saved with a TXT extension. So locate the file and change the extension to FRD and you should be all set.
If you have a calibrated mic and an uncalibrated mic, I would take a response curve of a good speaker out doors at 1 to 2 meters. Compare the two curves and see how much you would need to shift the uncalibrated measurement to get the best overlay between the two curves. (A lot of measuring software will let you level shift. How many dBs of shift give best overlay?) Some software lets you subtract one curve from another. This would ideally give a straight line difference (both mics same curve) with the shift of the straight line (from zero) equalling the calibration difference.
If you have discrepencies between near field and far field then rely on the far field. Take care when you switch mics to repeat exactly with the mics in the same exact position. If the curves vary in shape then lean towards the mid frequency level difference over the differences at the frequency extremes.
I have calibrated an omni condensor and True RTA to an Ivie IE35 that way and get good tracking between the two.
David S.
If you have discrepencies between near field and far field then rely on the far field. Take care when you switch mics to repeat exactly with the mics in the same exact position. If the curves vary in shape then lean towards the mid frequency level difference over the differences at the frequency extremes.
I have calibrated an omni condensor and True RTA to an Ivie IE35 that way and get good tracking between the two.
David S.
Thanks, John. I will do that but I would love to see Bohdan make it easier to export a combined curve without going through the extra steps.
Dave, I appreciate your response but I think that you really answered how to determine a difference in mic sensitivity. I have a mic calibration curve for one mic and measurements (nearfield, farfield, and even ground plane) for the calibrated mic and the uncalibrated mic with care being taken to measure at the same positions. I guess I am wondering what software to use to subtract the difference and then add to the calibrated curve. Unfortuneately, the number of samples is substantially larger for my calibration curve so just importing into excel won't work unless there is an excel work around.
Jay
Dave, I appreciate your response but I think that you really answered how to determine a difference in mic sensitivity. I have a mic calibration curve for one mic and measurements (nearfield, farfield, and even ground plane) for the calibrated mic and the uncalibrated mic with care being taken to measure at the same positions. I guess I am wondering what software to use to subtract the difference and then add to the calibrated curve. Unfortuneately, the number of samples is substantially larger for my calibration curve so just importing into excel won't work unless there is an excel work around.
Jay
I see. Try this SPL Tools They have a program called SPL View that lets you reintrpolate a curve to a new point spacing. I have used their software to both trace a curve and also to change point spacing. It works with a little effort. Once you have your curves with the same frequency spacing you can subtract in most measurement packages or, as you say, in excel.
Most good mics have a fiarly smooth curve and I would be tempted to plot the two curves and subtract point by point graphically (by eye or with a homemade paper dB ruler) to derive a calibration curve of adequate resolution. I've done that before and it really isn't very hard.
David S.
Thanks, Dave, I had forgotten about that program. I used it years ago before I had measuring equipment. Jay
Well, that won't work as it has 17737 data points and the program can only do up to 10000. I can't break down the frequency range as it does not appear to be divided by decades or by octaves. I am trying to figure this out.
Sorry John, I asked two questions and I was not clear. Your answer regarding how to export the driver files with the combined features was clear as a bell.
My comment regarding the 17737 points had to do with my microphone calibration file and my efforts to calibrate one mic with another calibrated mic. Sorry for the confusion.
My comment regarding the 17737 points had to do with my microphone calibration file and my efforts to calibrate one mic with another calibrated mic. Sorry for the confusion.
A while back I wrote up how to do a mic calibration if you already have a calibrated mic. Here it is: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/145661-mic-calibration-how.html
Thanks, Cuibono. I had seen that write up. The problem is that my mic cal has many more data points and to use it as a baseline, I have to be able to interpolate it to the number of data points of my two microphone measurements. I have not figured out how to do this in excel or with other software.
I’m having a Soundeasy crossover design project problem. Maybe I’m overlooking something that should be obvious? Or, could be a bug in the Soundeasy program?
Hope that someone here can help me.
I'm having a problem with Soundeasy (v25) ‘automatically’ changing my driver files (Amplitude and Impedance plots) when opening a new project.
When I open a new project, and load my driver measurement files (done by Soundeasy 25 measurement system), the driver amplitude and impedance plots are surprisingly changed.
After opening the project, I checked to see if the driver measurement plots are still the same as when I did the original driver measurements. {Note: I did not go to driver editor and did not attempt to model the driver’s magnitude or impedance plots. I did not go to the enclosure design menu, either.}
I did this check of the three drivers after opening the new project, by navigating to menu “CAD Frequency / Time Plot Control” & then select Plot Parameters: “SPL of ‘Driver Type Is” with selection of the appropriate node for each of my three drivers in my new three-way speaker design project (.wfr, .mrd., or .twe).
To my astonishment, the magnitude & impedance plots of the drivers (using “SPL of Driver Type Is”) are not the same as when I open each driver file by itself (no project open)😕. The amplitude and impedance plots for each driver file are OK = the same as when I did the original SE driver measurements.
What am I doing wrong?
Thanks in advance,
Bill
Hope that someone here can help me.
I'm having a problem with Soundeasy (v25) ‘automatically’ changing my driver files (Amplitude and Impedance plots) when opening a new project.
When I open a new project, and load my driver measurement files (done by Soundeasy 25 measurement system), the driver amplitude and impedance plots are surprisingly changed.
After opening the project, I checked to see if the driver measurement plots are still the same as when I did the original driver measurements. {Note: I did not go to driver editor and did not attempt to model the driver’s magnitude or impedance plots. I did not go to the enclosure design menu, either.}
I did this check of the three drivers after opening the new project, by navigating to menu “CAD Frequency / Time Plot Control” & then select Plot Parameters: “SPL of ‘Driver Type Is” with selection of the appropriate node for each of my three drivers in my new three-way speaker design project (.wfr, .mrd., or .twe).
To my astonishment, the magnitude & impedance plots of the drivers (using “SPL of Driver Type Is”) are not the same as when I open each driver file by itself (no project open)😕. The amplitude and impedance plots for each driver file are OK = the same as when I did the original SE driver measurements.
What am I doing wrong?
Thanks in advance,
Bill
Sounds like you HBTed the driver file, and that HBT response is what is actually used, regardless of what it looks like in the SPL tab. Just re-HBT using the response you want and save the file, should work then.
Thanks augerpro for your suggestion.
I have already, previously to posting, tried re-doing the HBT in driver editor, & saving the driver file(s) -- unfortunately, the same problem remains.
Bill
I have already, previously to posting, tried re-doing the HBT in driver editor, & saving the driver file(s) -- unfortunately, the same problem remains.
Bill
I fixed the driver file problem in Soundeasy.
This problem turned out to be the my frequency range (scaling) settings in the SE program's "preferences" menu.
I reset the ‘preferences’ frequency ranges to agree for both of my computers {SE25 on both my hobby room computer and also my office computer }.
The hobby room computer was used to redo all driver measurements using the SE measurement system (& did the Hilbert transform). I also saved my current 3-way speaker project file using the identical frequency range settings in ‘preferences’.
Now it looks like the driver files and are displayed properly when the project is open (driver tools – driver data menu, and “SPL of Driver Type Is”).
Further info about this 3-way speaker project:
The drivers used for the three-way design project are already mounted in a 1/2 cu ft cabinet. Mounting the drivers on the front baffle wasn't easy.
The drivers have been accumulated from old projects during the last 15 years: the Seas W18 woofer, two Audience A3 drivers on the baffle as the midrange, and the big RAAL 140-15D ribbon tweeter (mounting plate was cut to fit).
The front baffle doesn't look bad, although had to do some serious driver-flange cutting, and cabinet mods, to fit all the drivers on the front baffle.
All these drivers were mounted on an old Dayton(Parts Express) baffle 1/2 cu ft. curved-cabinet.
This small cabinet was chosen because it was sitting on the shelf unused; and goal of downsizing loudspeakers is deemed appropriate in retirement.
Because the drivers are already mounted on the front-baffle, enclosure modelling doesn't seem necessary (except if I choose to do near-field measurements of the woofer, baffle-diffraction correction would be performed).
Bill
This problem turned out to be the my frequency range (scaling) settings in the SE program's "preferences" menu.
I reset the ‘preferences’ frequency ranges to agree for both of my computers {SE25 on both my hobby room computer and also my office computer }.
The hobby room computer was used to redo all driver measurements using the SE measurement system (& did the Hilbert transform). I also saved my current 3-way speaker project file using the identical frequency range settings in ‘preferences’.
Now it looks like the driver files and are displayed properly when the project is open (driver tools – driver data menu, and “SPL of Driver Type Is”).
Further info about this 3-way speaker project:
The drivers used for the three-way design project are already mounted in a 1/2 cu ft cabinet. Mounting the drivers on the front baffle wasn't easy.
The drivers have been accumulated from old projects during the last 15 years: the Seas W18 woofer, two Audience A3 drivers on the baffle as the midrange, and the big RAAL 140-15D ribbon tweeter (mounting plate was cut to fit).
The front baffle doesn't look bad, although had to do some serious driver-flange cutting, and cabinet mods, to fit all the drivers on the front baffle.
All these drivers were mounted on an old Dayton(Parts Express) baffle 1/2 cu ft. curved-cabinet.
This small cabinet was chosen because it was sitting on the shelf unused; and goal of downsizing loudspeakers is deemed appropriate in retirement.
Because the drivers are already mounted on the front-baffle, enclosure modelling doesn't seem necessary (except if I choose to do near-field measurements of the woofer, baffle-diffraction correction would be performed).
Bill