Hey guys,
Just over Christmas break I built myself a 54 L sealed Shiva, using the Parts Express 250 W amp for power. I have been nothing but pleased with this sub, and it has had quite substantial output in both my dorm room, and the large open living room in my parents home. But upgraditis struck me as soon as I saw the MPC200 in this thread .
Wow, 700 watts into 4 ohms, for 140 bucks?!? I knew I just had to get this amp, it really does seem to be too good of a deal to pass up. Now I probably wont even be utilizing the new sub I would build until quite some time into the future, seeing as theres no room to put the size of sub you would need to take that kind of power in a dorm room(or in my room at home). So that means I would have to wait until I get my own apartment, or house(i.e. graduate from college, move out on my own, experience the real world, etc.) to even have somewhere to house this thing. So by the time I get around to buying the drivers im going to use, will this amp even be impressive anymore? That's one concern. Another is, just how much output will I gain over my current sub(54 L sealed Shiva, 250 W amp) with say, a 194L dual PR Tempest using this amp? Will it be a big enough gain for me to justify $300 on new drivers, and $140 on a new amp? I would be much obliged if you guys could point me in the right direction here, and if you have any suggestions for different subs to build based on this amp, that would just great. I am not aversed to scooping this amp up and holding on to it for a long time, if it really is as good as I'm thinking it is. So there are my concerns in a, ehrm...nutshell. Well, I guess it is the whole damned tree, but you're guidance and input is still much appreciated 😀
Just over Christmas break I built myself a 54 L sealed Shiva, using the Parts Express 250 W amp for power. I have been nothing but pleased with this sub, and it has had quite substantial output in both my dorm room, and the large open living room in my parents home. But upgraditis struck me as soon as I saw the MPC200 in this thread .
Wow, 700 watts into 4 ohms, for 140 bucks?!? I knew I just had to get this amp, it really does seem to be too good of a deal to pass up. Now I probably wont even be utilizing the new sub I would build until quite some time into the future, seeing as theres no room to put the size of sub you would need to take that kind of power in a dorm room(or in my room at home). So that means I would have to wait until I get my own apartment, or house(i.e. graduate from college, move out on my own, experience the real world, etc.) to even have somewhere to house this thing. So by the time I get around to buying the drivers im going to use, will this amp even be impressive anymore? That's one concern. Another is, just how much output will I gain over my current sub(54 L sealed Shiva, 250 W amp) with say, a 194L dual PR Tempest using this amp? Will it be a big enough gain for me to justify $300 on new drivers, and $140 on a new amp? I would be much obliged if you guys could point me in the right direction here, and if you have any suggestions for different subs to build based on this amp, that would just great. I am not aversed to scooping this amp up and holding on to it for a long time, if it really is as good as I'm thinking it is. So there are my concerns in a, ehrm...nutshell. Well, I guess it is the whole damned tree, but you're guidance and input is still much appreciated 😀ultimate sub
You're an honest person and deserve an honest answer... What are you trying to experience/listen to? Do you play any music yourself? A lot of what's available today will be outdated "tomorrow"...so,most,if not all of this technology ...is throwaway...and worth knowing...but not buying into. It's sad but true. Why not try an amp at "headwize". Build one of these and then listen to how good it can be! Then, become aware (and amazed) at how people manipulate sound...and continue from there-
You're an honest person and deserve an honest answer... What are you trying to experience/listen to? Do you play any music yourself? A lot of what's available today will be outdated "tomorrow"...so,most,if not all of this technology ...is throwaway...and worth knowing...but not buying into. It's sad but true. Why not try an amp at "headwize". Build one of these and then listen to how good it can be! Then, become aware (and amazed) at how people manipulate sound...and continue from there-
my opinion :-D
a shiva 130litre ported to 23hz box has over +9db output more than 54litre sealed boxed shiva.
(winisd quick calculation)
buying an amp for an unknown speaker isnt a good idea IMHO
what if your new speaker is only rated 400watt rms? or 600? could you trust the 700watt amp not to kill it?(personaly i dont have experience in amp-speaker power)
buying an amp when u know what speaker you will buy also,is what i would do.
350-700watts = 3db extra output (so mainly its just more headroom)
Tempests are 2db more efficient than a shiva-so with max power u get more output.
if u build a larger box you may not need PRs, 10$ ports instead.
why not start with
-how much SPL is practicable
-Efficiency Vs Low Bass
and then see how much power you need to reach Thermal/Xmax limits.
Eg LABhorn is 106db/1watt(approx) but is large and heavy
shiva is 87db or so and takes a few hundred watts to get 110db.
its good to pick up a good deal on a cheap amp tho.
I live in NZ and cant find amps cheaply,with shipping,we pay heaps for amps here.
🙂
a shiva 130litre ported to 23hz box has over +9db output more than 54litre sealed boxed shiva.
(winisd quick calculation)
buying an amp for an unknown speaker isnt a good idea IMHO
what if your new speaker is only rated 400watt rms? or 600? could you trust the 700watt amp not to kill it?(personaly i dont have experience in amp-speaker power)
buying an amp when u know what speaker you will buy also,is what i would do.
350-700watts = 3db extra output (so mainly its just more headroom)
Tempests are 2db more efficient than a shiva-so with max power u get more output.
if u build a larger box you may not need PRs, 10$ ports instead.
why not start with
-how much SPL is practicable
-Efficiency Vs Low Bass
and then see how much power you need to reach Thermal/Xmax limits.
Eg LABhorn is 106db/1watt(approx) but is large and heavy
shiva is 87db or so and takes a few hundred watts to get 110db.
its good to pick up a good deal on a cheap amp tho.
I live in NZ and cant find amps cheaply,with shipping,we pay heaps for amps here.
🙂
Can I ask a question>??....when you listen to music do you want to hear the vocals?...guitars??...bass??....or percussion>??
Vince:
Im trying to experience the best sound possible for the meager budget which I have. And being a young person I am, somewhat naively, admittedly somewhat of a basshead. I enjoy loud, low, gut shaking bass. I may be somewhat neglecting my mains here but for my tastes those are at a point that I am very content with at the moment. I do play music as a matter of fact, I played the trumpet for 2 years, the euphonium for about 5 years after that, and have now dropped the wind instruments in favor of the piano. I have quite a good idea how live music sounds. I was actually able to attend a David Finckel/Wu Han concert held at my college recently(for free mind you 😉 ). I am not sure that I understand your reference to headwize, thats a headphone site, correct? I guess you might be trying to say audio is much better on headphones, and if i build a good headphone amp, and get a good pair of headphones, then I will have some kind of reference to compare my main system against?
Mike:
Heres how I see the situation: I have a chance to get a 700 watt amp, that is only really useable as a sub amp. In the future, when and if this project does come together, my guess would be that the driver technology will have progressed much, much further than amplifier technology, especially for subs with their higher distortion characteristics intrinsic in their makeup. So I get this amp now, and find a driver to suit it when the time comes. I see the dilemma with buying an amp for your mains before knowing the speakers your going to use for mains, but I just dont see the same logic applying to subs.
How much SPL is praticable? I like to thing of a Tim "the tool man"Taylor sort (insert manly *grunts* throughout conversation, especially after big numbers, and impressive sounding technical words). So what I say is, the more the better!! Im on the everlasting quest of one-upping the next guy, so having a bigger/better sub is just one step(but one with a lot of, impact, shall we say? 🙂 )
Efficiency vs. Low Bass- Will if I am going to be using the 700 watt amp, efficiency should not be a large problem. So I guess that turns it into a how-low-can-you-go contest. A -3db under 20 Hz would be really, really cool*grunt* *grunt*(I think this will really seem stupid to anyone who hasnt seen Home Improvement, but trust me I'm not crazy
)But the question is, is a -3db point under 20 Hz something that can be done with a single tempest(or similarly priced driver) in a box that isnt *too* monstrous, i.e. under 200 L.
Joe:
As I stated before, I am a little biased towards bass, I dont know if its the dropping jaws of my friends as things rattle off shelves, or the faces of my neighbors at the end of the hall complaining of their beds shaking
. Maybe its even the little smile I get on my face every time theres an explosion in an action movie. Whatever it is, bass seems to be my major concern in music right now. Dont get me wrong, I definately like to have good mids and highs as well, but those just dont carry the same weight right now.
Thank you guys for your replies, your help in making me think this through is extremely appreciated. Best regards.
Mike
Im trying to experience the best sound possible for the meager budget which I have. And being a young person I am, somewhat naively, admittedly somewhat of a basshead. I enjoy loud, low, gut shaking bass. I may be somewhat neglecting my mains here but for my tastes those are at a point that I am very content with at the moment. I do play music as a matter of fact, I played the trumpet for 2 years, the euphonium for about 5 years after that, and have now dropped the wind instruments in favor of the piano. I have quite a good idea how live music sounds. I was actually able to attend a David Finckel/Wu Han concert held at my college recently(for free mind you 😉 ). I am not sure that I understand your reference to headwize, thats a headphone site, correct? I guess you might be trying to say audio is much better on headphones, and if i build a good headphone amp, and get a good pair of headphones, then I will have some kind of reference to compare my main system against?
Mike:
Heres how I see the situation: I have a chance to get a 700 watt amp, that is only really useable as a sub amp. In the future, when and if this project does come together, my guess would be that the driver technology will have progressed much, much further than amplifier technology, especially for subs with their higher distortion characteristics intrinsic in their makeup. So I get this amp now, and find a driver to suit it when the time comes. I see the dilemma with buying an amp for your mains before knowing the speakers your going to use for mains, but I just dont see the same logic applying to subs.
How much SPL is praticable? I like to thing of a Tim "the tool man"Taylor sort (insert manly *grunts* throughout conversation, especially after big numbers, and impressive sounding technical words). So what I say is, the more the better!! Im on the everlasting quest of one-upping the next guy, so having a bigger/better sub is just one step(but one with a lot of, impact, shall we say? 🙂 )
Efficiency vs. Low Bass- Will if I am going to be using the 700 watt amp, efficiency should not be a large problem. So I guess that turns it into a how-low-can-you-go contest. A -3db under 20 Hz would be really, really cool*grunt* *grunt*(I think this will really seem stupid to anyone who hasnt seen Home Improvement, but trust me I'm not crazy
)But the question is, is a -3db point under 20 Hz something that can be done with a single tempest(or similarly priced driver) in a box that isnt *too* monstrous, i.e. under 200 L.Joe:
As I stated before, I am a little biased towards bass, I dont know if its the dropping jaws of my friends as things rattle off shelves, or the faces of my neighbors at the end of the hall complaining of their beds shaking
. Maybe its even the little smile I get on my face every time theres an explosion in an action movie. Whatever it is, bass seems to be my major concern in music right now. Dont get me wrong, I definately like to have good mids and highs as well, but those just dont carry the same weight right now.Thank you guys for your replies, your help in making me think this through is extremely appreciated. Best regards.
Mike
http://www.speakerhole.com/product.cfm?ProductID=1060
What about those? It would be challenging to blow out those with that amp (though you could do it) and they're only $40... that's $200 for two of them and the amp!
The theile-small params are at www.madisonspeakers.com products -> raw woofers -> parameters.... WinISD should be able to help you design a good box...
What about those? It would be challenging to blow out those with that amp (though you could do it) and they're only $40... that's $200 for two of them and the amp!
The theile-small params are at www.madisonspeakers.com products -> raw woofers -> parameters.... WinISD should be able to help you design a good box...
with a 700watt amp,youl get *plenty* with a *normal* 89db speaker.
> www.royaldevice.com > 10hz horn
Efficiency vs. Low Bass-
People get some 16hz sort of stuff at a reasoable level with large boxes shivas tuned to resonance of speaker...aslong as its in the corner of your room..
260litres tuned to 20hz (1 tempest)
it takes about 300watts rms before it starts exceeding excursion..its good to have some headroom(lotS! like 6db worth atleast)..
perhaps 2 tempests would mean that the 700watts could be used,depending on the voice coil configuration.
see what i mean about buying amp before the speaker?
theres many ways to do it,especialy with 2 DVC subs
as an owner of a shiva,a tempest will only act like 2 shivas (excursion wise) but not much else that i can see.
for 20hz its good to have a large room that mite resonate near that frequency if your looking for SPL ,and dont care about buzzing
as for me,
i know John SHeerin,who is hopefuly designing a basshorn that goes low and loud
🙂 🙂- Status
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