I have recently become motivated to freshen up my 39 yr old TD-125, after designing a new two chassis phono stage using D3A, 5687, and 5842.
The pre-amplifier is extraordinarily quiet, and other than a touch of groundloop hum with the volume all the way up there is no significant noise at all.
The new phono stage got me to thinking that my turntable needed and deserved some help. I consequently replaced all of the 39yr old electrolytics and touched up a couple of adjustments. The TT now comes up to speed very quickly and seems more stable speed wise. The bearing is in excellent condition, and I polished up the platter. It sits in a custom plinth made of red oak. (Tighter more controlled low end than the original and heavily bodged plinth.) A new belt is on the way as the old one is well.. very old - possibly original.
I've got an SM3009 MKII with the steel knife edge bearings, new decoupler installed. Still to install the analogaudio.de connector upgrade.
I'm looking for a reasonable mat to replace the stock mat. Other than the ringmat I am open to suggestions, but what I really want is a Chadwick Modifications (of Boston) Corktone mat. Unfortunately Steve Grant of Chadwick died rather suddenly in January of 1999 and left no information on how to make them and production ceased. I am unlikely to find one at this late date so I am open to suggestions. I note that several vendors on eBay are selling what look like reasonable mats, and the currently available one I am considering is here:http://herbiesaudiolab.home.att.net/ttmat.htm This has received a lot of favorable reviews.. Anyone using one on an ancient Thorens TD-125?
Finally I am currently using a low hour (NOS) Grado 8MR, but am thinking about getting one of the entry level wood body Grado References (5mv @ 5cm/sec) or Statements. (0.5mV @ 5cm/sec) I have sufficiently high snr and gain that the 20dB difference in output is probably not an issue, but I favor the 5mV version.
Another option would be the Grado Gold (Signature Reference) which is a lot less money. 😉
All the Grados are high compliance types suitable for use with the SME3009 MKII which is not up for replacement.. LOL
Edits: Formatting and typos.
The pre-amplifier is extraordinarily quiet, and other than a touch of groundloop hum with the volume all the way up there is no significant noise at all.
The new phono stage got me to thinking that my turntable needed and deserved some help. I consequently replaced all of the 39yr old electrolytics and touched up a couple of adjustments. The TT now comes up to speed very quickly and seems more stable speed wise. The bearing is in excellent condition, and I polished up the platter. It sits in a custom plinth made of red oak. (Tighter more controlled low end than the original and heavily bodged plinth.) A new belt is on the way as the old one is well.. very old - possibly original.
I've got an SM3009 MKII with the steel knife edge bearings, new decoupler installed. Still to install the analogaudio.de connector upgrade.
I'm looking for a reasonable mat to replace the stock mat. Other than the ringmat I am open to suggestions, but what I really want is a Chadwick Modifications (of Boston) Corktone mat. Unfortunately Steve Grant of Chadwick died rather suddenly in January of 1999 and left no information on how to make them and production ceased. I am unlikely to find one at this late date so I am open to suggestions. I note that several vendors on eBay are selling what look like reasonable mats, and the currently available one I am considering is here:http://herbiesaudiolab.home.att.net/ttmat.htm This has received a lot of favorable reviews.. Anyone using one on an ancient Thorens TD-125?
Finally I am currently using a low hour (NOS) Grado 8MR, but am thinking about getting one of the entry level wood body Grado References (5mv @ 5cm/sec) or Statements. (0.5mV @ 5cm/sec) I have sufficiently high snr and gain that the 20dB difference in output is probably not an issue, but I favor the 5mV version.
Another option would be the Grado Gold (Signature Reference) which is a lot less money. 😉
All the Grados are high compliance types suitable for use with the SME3009 MKII which is not up for replacement.. LOL
Edits: Formatting and typos.
I'm pretty sure I have seen people use that SME arms with some lower compliance MC cartridges, but maybe I'm confused. I think the dampening trough helps with that. Have you thought about getting the Bronze knife edge bearing upgrade for that arm, I heard one in a before and after session, unfortunatly not A/B really, and I liked what I heard.
I used a Grado Sonata cartridge with my TD125MKII and really liked its sound. I'm currently using the same cartridge on my new table as well, and still like it, though I'm considering trying a newer MC cartridge of some sort. I had a bad experience with some Sumiko's sound wise, but have since been told they are not a good representation of a good MC.
I used a Grado Sonata cartridge with my TD125MKII and really liked its sound. I'm currently using the same cartridge on my new table as well, and still like it, though I'm considering trying a newer MC cartridge of some sort. I had a bad experience with some Sumiko's sound wise, but have since been told they are not a good representation of a good MC.
Hi Pjpoes,
Mine came with an Ortofon MC10 on it, but I've been told that because of the low mass arm tube and knife edge bearings that low compliance cartridges are a bad idea. (Causes bearing chatter, mis-tracking, and distortion. I have heard this on another table with a mc cartridge on an SME3009 S2.)
The Grados are all very high compliance and I have never had a problem with distortion or mis-tracking with the SME arm. No damping trough on the SME 3009 MKII.. Maybe later arms? The 8MR is not bad, in fact it is tonally very pleasant, and has good extension, but definitely lacks the resolution of the newer Signature series.
I had a Sumiko Blue Point on an AudioCrafts 3000 MKII arm (Fluid damped Uni-pivot) with the high mass arm tube.. Sounded great.. Sounded really bad on the low mass arm of a Mayware Uni-pivot I had, and did not sound good with the low mass AudioCrafts arm tube either.
Mine came with an Ortofon MC10 on it, but I've been told that because of the low mass arm tube and knife edge bearings that low compliance cartridges are a bad idea. (Causes bearing chatter, mis-tracking, and distortion. I have heard this on another table with a mc cartridge on an SME3009 S2.)
The Grados are all very high compliance and I have never had a problem with distortion or mis-tracking with the SME arm. No damping trough on the SME 3009 MKII.. Maybe later arms? The 8MR is not bad, in fact it is tonally very pleasant, and has good extension, but definitely lacks the resolution of the newer Signature series.
I had a Sumiko Blue Point on an AudioCrafts 3000 MKII arm (Fluid damped Uni-pivot) with the high mass arm tube.. Sounded great.. Sounded really bad on the low mass arm of a Mayware Uni-pivot I had, and did not sound good with the low mass AudioCrafts arm tube either.
I'm spinning record on a td 125 that is probaly due
for a little tune up but is working great for me. For
a mat I had a custom glass mat made at a local
glass shot but as it didn't have a spot ground out
for the label so it didn't work as well as it could
have I made a mat out of a non slip shelving
liner and been happy with it.
http://www.theanalogdept.com/nonefelt.htm
For the Cart on the 3009II today there is
a Nagaoka mp11 that sounds pretty good
with some extra weight on the head shell.
But there is an audio technica 440mla in
the mail head my way. All the raves over
on the Audio Asylum made me curious.
for a little tune up but is working great for me. For
a mat I had a custom glass mat made at a local
glass shot but as it didn't have a spot ground out
for the label so it didn't work as well as it could
have I made a mat out of a non slip shelving
liner and been happy with it.
http://www.theanalogdept.com/nonefelt.htm
For the Cart on the 3009II today there is
a Nagaoka mp11 that sounds pretty good
with some extra weight on the head shell.
But there is an audio technica 440mla in
the mail head my way. All the raves over
on the Audio Asylum made me curious.
Hey Kevin, I'm sure you are right, and I know very little about the different SME arms to know if some where better suited to higher compliance cartridges than others, I thought a lot of people liked the SPU with that arm, but I might be confused. The Dampening trough was an option as I understand it, and I see them come up for sale on ebay all the time.
After having problem after problem with my Thorens, I decided to shelve it for now, until I get a new board for it, or some better help on fixing it, and bought myself a new table. I bought a an Acoustic Solid Transparent with RB250 arm, and just transfered my grado over. I really like this setup thus far, and I'm excited about the tweaking abilities. If I ever become ambitious enough for this, the table is constructed in such a basic manner that one could easily make a new plinth for the table and improve things that way. I was also told that the bearing is identical on all the tables, so that upgrading to the thicker platter is not such a big deal. Mine is already 1.5" thick solid aluminum, but some day I wouldn't mind trying the thicker table. I also want to try constructing a wooden plint for it at some point, as remounting everything is simple and non-permanent. Before I do any of that I want to either upgrade the current arm, or replace it with a better one. I can't decided if an RB250 will be better with 5-600 dollar in mods, or if I am better off buying a 1000 dollar arm to start, and leaving it alone. Seems like most of the arm's available for 5-600 dollars aren't considered a worthwhile upgrade over the rega, so I probably won't go that route.
After having problem after problem with my Thorens, I decided to shelve it for now, until I get a new board for it, or some better help on fixing it, and bought myself a new table. I bought a an Acoustic Solid Transparent with RB250 arm, and just transfered my grado over. I really like this setup thus far, and I'm excited about the tweaking abilities. If I ever become ambitious enough for this, the table is constructed in such a basic manner that one could easily make a new plinth for the table and improve things that way. I was also told that the bearing is identical on all the tables, so that upgrading to the thicker platter is not such a big deal. Mine is already 1.5" thick solid aluminum, but some day I wouldn't mind trying the thicker table. I also want to try constructing a wooden plint for it at some point, as remounting everything is simple and non-permanent. Before I do any of that I want to either upgrade the current arm, or replace it with a better one. I can't decided if an RB250 will be better with 5-600 dollar in mods, or if I am better off buying a 1000 dollar arm to start, and leaving it alone. Seems like most of the arm's available for 5-600 dollars aren't considered a worthwhile upgrade over the rega, so I probably won't go that route.
I have been using this one on my td 125:
http://www.phonophono.de/YD64005_115_e.php3?Kennung=
5mm. black acrylic which does have a cutout for the label.
Very nice!
Matthias.
I just installed the Torqmat II I purchased on eBay last week (came in this snowy morning's mail) and I have to say it made an immediately audible difference.
The stock Thorens mat seems to obscure low level detail. OTOH with the Torqmat the background seems just a little quieter and some midrange mud seems to have disappeared. Tonal balance is better and some odd colorations have totally disappeared. (I thought these were a hallmark of my Grado 8MR - they're not.)
A lot of bang for $20.00 🙂
I'm planning on a Grado Sonata Reference sometime soon.. Anyone using one on their Thorens TD-125?
Despite the late age, all of this is reminding me that analog might still be where it's at.
I am playing a lot of records these days after about a 10yr near hiatus.
The Thorens is a relatively recent arrival, I've had it about 4yrs, but had not done much of anything to it until the new phono stage project.
Worth all of the effort and expense!!
The stock Thorens mat seems to obscure low level detail. OTOH with the Torqmat the background seems just a little quieter and some midrange mud seems to have disappeared. Tonal balance is better and some odd colorations have totally disappeared. (I thought these were a hallmark of my Grado 8MR - they're not.)
A lot of bang for $20.00 🙂
I'm planning on a Grado Sonata Reference sometime soon.. Anyone using one on their Thorens TD-125?
Despite the late age, all of this is reminding me that analog might still be where it's at.
I am playing a lot of records these days after about a 10yr near hiatus.
The Thorens is a relatively recent arrival, I've had it about 4yrs, but had not done much of anything to it until the new phono stage project.
Worth all of the effort and expense!!
Glad to hear you like the mat. I tried a cork mat on my TD-160 and while it improved detail it lost PRaT so no go. Was the torqmat as thick as the original?
Also, it looks a lot like that non-slip foam stuff, but woven thicker...is it?
Go Sox! Go away ice!
Also, it looks a lot like that non-slip foam stuff, but woven thicker...is it?
Go Sox! Go away ice!
Hi Ghetto,
The Torqmat is somewhat thicker, and also to the extent that I can no longer use my souther clever clamp.. BUT it does sound way better than with the stock mat with the clamp so I'm ok with that..
It seems to be quite similar to the no slip stuff you mention..
The Torqmat was pretty inexpensive, I am going to get one of Herbie's mats pretty soon (within a couple of months or so) and will report back on how it differs.
Quincy was a sea of ice after the storm Wednesday.. Taking your life in your hands walking around here.. 😀
The Torqmat is somewhat thicker, and also to the extent that I can no longer use my souther clever clamp.. BUT it does sound way better than with the stock mat with the clamp so I'm ok with that..
It seems to be quite similar to the no slip stuff you mention..
The Torqmat was pretty inexpensive, I am going to get one of Herbie's mats pretty soon (within a couple of months or so) and will report back on how it differs.
Quincy was a sea of ice after the storm Wednesday.. Taking your life in your hands walking around here.. 😀
Yeah, we're slip-sliding away here in town too. Car got stuck when we went out to lunch yesterday...I felt so lame!
Anyway, I wouldn't have thought the torqmat would be thicker, that's pretty cool. I'd love to know how it sounds compared to the herbie's. I've also heard achromat is great on these...
Anyway, I wouldn't have thought the torqmat would be thicker, that's pretty cool. I'd love to know how it sounds compared to the herbie's. I've also heard achromat is great on these...
folhaseca said:
What do you think of that Audio Technica 440mla. I'm still thinking about the cartridge issue..
TT is working great, hardly ever listen to digital sources anymore..
Folhaseca, no comments on the Audio Technica cartridge?
Still haven't bought a new cartridge. Have heard that some of the wood bodied Grados may be sensitive to hum pick up on some tables. Anyone have specific experience with the TD-125 MKI/MKII and the SME3009 series II arm?
I'd sure hate to spend between $300 and $500 on one of these cartridges only to find out it picked up hum from the power transformer.
The current Grado is an 8MR which is dead silent, but it is very well shielded, apparently the wood bodied ones are not.
Thoughts or further recommendations?
Still haven't bought a new cartridge. Have heard that some of the wood bodied Grados may be sensitive to hum pick up on some tables. Anyone have specific experience with the TD-125 MKI/MKII and the SME3009 series II arm?
I'd sure hate to spend between $300 and $500 on one of these cartridges only to find out it picked up hum from the power transformer.
The current Grado is an 8MR which is dead silent, but it is very well shielded, apparently the wood bodied ones are not.
Thoughts or further recommendations?
The AT cart is really, really good. It is very neutral (acurate) sounding with
a nice taste of air and tunefull extended bass. The microline stylus digs down
and plays through everything. It grabs my attention every once in a while with
female vocals sounding quite pure. I am sure that there are different presentations
in more expensive carts and some magic from a MC cart that may be "missing" but
relative to the AT its all probably subjective and into the relm of deminishing returns.
The one thing I would say is that it is ugly, a pukey purple colour , if you get one you
won't be sorry. Really.
a nice taste of air and tunefull extended bass. The microline stylus digs down
and plays through everything. It grabs my attention every once in a while with
female vocals sounding quite pure. I am sure that there are different presentations
in more expensive carts and some magic from a MC cart that may be "missing" but
relative to the AT its all probably subjective and into the relm of deminishing returns.
The one thing I would say is that it is ugly, a pukey purple colour , if you get one you
won't be sorry. Really.
Cartridge choices for an SME3009 Series II Arm
Still trying to figure out what cartridge to buy to put on my SME 3009 Series II
I'm considering the following cartridges:
Grado Prestige Gold, Reference Platinum, Reference Sonata
Goldring 1012GX, 1022GX, Eroica H MC
Shelter 201
The AT440MLA has been repeatedly suggested, but I did not much like the last AT cartridge I owned. (in ancient times) 😉
There are a few high output MC with moderately high compliance that I am told work well.
Anyone have experience with any of these cartridges in a 3009?
Still trying to figure out what cartridge to buy to put on my SME 3009 Series II
I'm considering the following cartridges:
Grado Prestige Gold, Reference Platinum, Reference Sonata
Goldring 1012GX, 1022GX, Eroica H MC
Shelter 201
The AT440MLA has been repeatedly suggested, but I did not much like the last AT cartridge I owned. (in ancient times) 😉
There are a few high output MC with moderately high compliance that I am told work well.
Anyone have experience with any of these cartridges in a 3009?
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