tube suround sound
Hi, I am new to the audio tube world, I started out with guitar amps and found out that there are still people who use tube amps for audio systems, wow! Since then I have been working out a way to make my own tube audio system and I began to wonder is there a way to make a tube surround sound system using tube mono blocks to power the channels?
Is there a surround sound processor out there that I can do this with? And is it possible to do this without spending $ 18,000? I am looking at spending $ 300 - 400 per component and DIY-ing as much as possible (tube amp kits and speaker kits ) I have been looking at the Arizona tube amp kits and using high efficiency speakers. I’m one of those people who sees no reason for more than 50 watts per channel anything over that is overkill. Also I am in a small apt. so more than 50 watts might get me kicked out. 🙂 Any direction in this would be greatly appreciated.
Hi, I am new to the audio tube world, I started out with guitar amps and found out that there are still people who use tube amps for audio systems, wow! Since then I have been working out a way to make my own tube audio system and I began to wonder is there a way to make a tube surround sound system using tube mono blocks to power the channels?
Is there a surround sound processor out there that I can do this with? And is it possible to do this without spending $ 18,000? I am looking at spending $ 300 - 400 per component and DIY-ing as much as possible (tube amp kits and speaker kits ) I have been looking at the Arizona tube amp kits and using high efficiency speakers. I’m one of those people who sees no reason for more than 50 watts per channel anything over that is overkill. Also I am in a small apt. so more than 50 watts might get me kicked out. 🙂 Any direction in this would be greatly appreciated.
Is it only for surround? Or for stereo hifi too?
I'm not that familiar with surround, but my guess is that it doesn't need the extreme hifi quality stereo needs.
So a pair of nice el84 or even ecl86 amps for rear, a pair of beefy beam tetrode or penthode amps for front and a triode amp for center looks like a good idea, for as far as i've understood, the center speaker makes the "hifi" sound , the front do the volume pumping and the rear are only for effects.
To top it off, you could concider a hefty sub amp too.
Want cheap? I've had very good experiances with russian tubes. try the GUxx series of tubes (I use GU50). They cost about $1 a tube and can produce 70 watts.
Your real issue is going to be the iron. find a supplier thet gives quantum discounts😉
I'm not that familiar with surround, but my guess is that it doesn't need the extreme hifi quality stereo needs.
So a pair of nice el84 or even ecl86 amps for rear, a pair of beefy beam tetrode or penthode amps for front and a triode amp for center looks like a good idea, for as far as i've understood, the center speaker makes the "hifi" sound , the front do the volume pumping and the rear are only for effects.
To top it off, you could concider a hefty sub amp too.
Want cheap? I've had very good experiances with russian tubes. try the GUxx series of tubes (I use GU50). They cost about $1 a tube and can produce 70 watts.
Your real issue is going to be the iron. find a supplier thet gives quantum discounts😉
Oh, and do some search for surround processor. Some good threads on that. Hope you know your hacking😉
In terms of getting just a prebuilt surround sound processor, you might want to look at Creative Lab's DDTS-100 decoder
You should be able to get it from a computer store or order online... Think its about $120 based on prices here....
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
You should be able to get it from a computer store or order online... Think its about $120 based on prices here....
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Thank you very much guys, this gives me something to look in to for sure. as for what I want it to do I am thinking of a movie/music combo I have been reading about dolby pro logic II and am wondering if that might be a way to go but this creative labs thing may be a good jumping off point. Thank you for the input. 🙂
Sure.......
My Denon HT gets blown away in 2-channel stereo mode by my tube amps. Surround sound with tube amps would be very interesting.
My Denon HT gets blown away in 2-channel stereo mode by my tube amps. Surround sound with tube amps would be very interesting.
Hi txtubenoob,
Look at the pictures here:
http://community.webshots.com/album/354063825LZnHlO
One of the pictures in the middle of the page shows my home theater (with a crappy TV) with tube amps. I use a Sony DVD/SACD/CD player with a built-in Dolby AC-3 decoder. Not audiophile but it sounds good. I also have an outboard Yamaha AC-3 decoder I bought new in-box from that auction site for about $100. I think the model number is DDP-1. I drive it with the optical output from the DVD player and it sounds better than the DVD player itself.
Anyway, these amps sound very good. They are the amps available at:
http://www.diytube.com
I have 3 eiclones for F-C-R and one stereo-35 for the rears. You can see them in the other pictures. I'm driving Klipsch speakers. The whole thing sounds very good and I am quite pleased. The only problem is switching all the cables around when I go from DVD to SACD to CD since the Yamaha decoder will not work with anything other than AC-3. But I am more than willing to live with that. I don't have a front-end switcher or control pre-amp. When playing CD's I usually use my Denon DCD-1560 which also sounds very good indeed. More cable switching!
Hope this gives you some ideas.
Regards,
Look at the pictures here:
http://community.webshots.com/album/354063825LZnHlO
One of the pictures in the middle of the page shows my home theater (with a crappy TV) with tube amps. I use a Sony DVD/SACD/CD player with a built-in Dolby AC-3 decoder. Not audiophile but it sounds good. I also have an outboard Yamaha AC-3 decoder I bought new in-box from that auction site for about $100. I think the model number is DDP-1. I drive it with the optical output from the DVD player and it sounds better than the DVD player itself.
Anyway, these amps sound very good. They are the amps available at:
http://www.diytube.com
I have 3 eiclones for F-C-R and one stereo-35 for the rears. You can see them in the other pictures. I'm driving Klipsch speakers. The whole thing sounds very good and I am quite pleased. The only problem is switching all the cables around when I go from DVD to SACD to CD since the Yamaha decoder will not work with anything other than AC-3. But I am more than willing to live with that. I don't have a front-end switcher or control pre-amp. When playing CD's I usually use my Denon DCD-1560 which also sounds very good indeed. More cable switching!
Hope this gives you some ideas.
Regards,
You can indeed operate a HT system with Tube Surround Sound! I have a 5-channel system with home-built 20W amplifiers running from a Denon AV receiver for the control circuitry and it rocks!
Phil Collins First of the Last Farewell Tours features an excellent drum track at the beginning of the DVD, and I usually turn this up to "feel the rhythm". The tube amplifiers handle it like a dream, whereas a certain well known Japanese-sourced HT system goes into protection at an even lower volume level, in spite of being rated about 4-5 times the power output of the tube amplifiers I am using.
But then I guess I am slightly biased... 😉
Go ahead and enjoy it! Look for a second-hand AVR unit to provide the pre-amp and control facilities, these are obtainable at realistic prices. Ensure that it has Pre-Amp outputs to drive your tube amps.
-Eric
Phil Collins First of the Last Farewell Tours features an excellent drum track at the beginning of the DVD, and I usually turn this up to "feel the rhythm". The tube amplifiers handle it like a dream, whereas a certain well known Japanese-sourced HT system goes into protection at an even lower volume level, in spite of being rated about 4-5 times the power output of the tube amplifiers I am using.
But then I guess I am slightly biased... 😉
Go ahead and enjoy it! Look for a second-hand AVR unit to provide the pre-amp and control facilities, these are obtainable at realistic prices. Ensure that it has Pre-Amp outputs to drive your tube amps.
-Eric
txtubenoob said:
Yep... best is to make up your own RCA inter-connects as well. I used RG59 for mine with suitable RCA plugs. Use any suitable DVD player as source, I use a Denon 2200. Obviously, do not connect speakers to the AVR's speaker outputs.
Photo available here:
http://www.imagestation.com/album/p...120900008&idx=1
-Eric
txtubenoob said:
A system Ive found very pleasing to my ear is a Circle Surround (Analogue Based) decoder, then fed into tube amplification. Thats the delight of tube amps, there's such a huge variety of output tubes with loads of different power levels all with their particular qualities of sound. Add to that the huge variety of pre-amp tubes and different ways of wiring them all up,--Let your mind wander--Have a ball!
The Analogue Circle-Surround decoder (home-buiold based on the AD SSM2005 chip) is great for the analogue only sources, and adds so much more than plain old boring Dolby PL/II, while the DVD analogue out is used for digital work--Basic but it works out well.
Ive found the two-channel mixdown via the DVD from 5.1 gets decoded with the Circle Surround is a very precise way, with very little pumping or other artifacts and sometimes find Ive forgotten to switch sources!
My own system has 6C33C-B front channel (3) Amps in integrated format with separate PSU, (home-build) currently the surround is still a basic sand amp, but that will change soon, Im currently thinking of a couple of EL84 SE/PP or maybe EL/PL82/86 in P-P for the surround channels.
My listening/viewing room isnt very large, so the 15-20W front channels are quite enough even for the most 'loud' movies--Much more and I reckon the neighbours who are deaf would complain--
20W Tube-Power can sound like 100W Sand-power!
Welcome Textubenoob:
I'm next door in Louisiana, my brother lives in Highland Park.
Family Dog is right on...I have a Denon 3803 AVR and it has pre-outs available for Left and Right Front/Sub/Left and Right Surround and Rear Surround. Each operates as a discrete channel.
It is an affordable unit with excellent control features for an HT setup. It allows you to go into a "pure" mode for 2 speaker audio that turns all digital and none essential elements off, you get signal in to preamp to tubeamp to speakers. Hell, the display leds are shut off too.
I am using an SE EL84 based amp for the front L/R. I have not gone tubes to the surrounds as I have a pretty long speaker cable drive (up a wall across the ceiling down a wall) to get there.
good luck,
dr._sleep
I'm next door in Louisiana, my brother lives in Highland Park.
Family Dog is right on...I have a Denon 3803 AVR and it has pre-outs available for Left and Right Front/Sub/Left and Right Surround and Rear Surround. Each operates as a discrete channel.
It is an affordable unit with excellent control features for an HT setup. It allows you to go into a "pure" mode for 2 speaker audio that turns all digital and none essential elements off, you get signal in to preamp to tubeamp to speakers. Hell, the display leds are shut off too.
I am using an SE EL84 based amp for the front L/R. I have not gone tubes to the surrounds as I have a pretty long speaker cable drive (up a wall across the ceiling down a wall) to get there.
good luck,
dr._sleep
Ok, found a jvc rx-8040 6.1 surround sound a/v receiver on ebay for less then $300. specs say it have pre amp outs for all channels!
Now, let me make sure I am understanding this correctly, distance from the amp makes that much of a difference? as my name says, I'm a noob. 🙂 all I have ever used were guitar amps and they all had the speaker inside.
Now, let me make sure I am understanding this correctly, distance from the amp makes that much of a difference? as my name says, I'm a noob. 🙂 all I have ever used were guitar amps and they all had the speaker inside.
I would also like to thank everyone for answering my stupid questions, in just a few days I have learned things that would have taken me months to find on the web.
If you use quality RCA inter-connects, you could probably go up to 15 feet or so from the AVR pre-amp outs. Not sure what the impedance of the pre-out is but up to this distance should work just fine. Having said that, do try make them as short as possible (mine are just over 3 feet each).
Once again, you are probably better off making them up yourself with a good screened cable (RG59) and suitable connectors. The cheap type often on sale at various outlets are all but useless.
Enjoy your tube surround system!
-Eric
Once again, you are probably better off making them up yourself with a good screened cable (RG59) and suitable connectors. The cheap type often on sale at various outlets are all but useless.
Enjoy your tube surround system!
-Eric
hi all, was reading this thread with interest and recommend highly, the sony tap9000es 5.1 analog preamp. these units have 2 full 5.1 inputs and outputs(with extra center and sub jacks on each-plus a pass through for your 2 channel rig.
these went out of production a few years back, but once in a while they turn up for sale. VERY flexible
i used mine with 5 dyna mk3s a while back, with great results.
charlie
these went out of production a few years back, but once in a while they turn up for sale. VERY flexible
i used mine with 5 dyna mk3s a while back, with great results.
charlie
- Status
- Not open for further replies.