please dont laugh me out of here. but i am struggling to find a direction to get started. I currently have heavily modded polk SDA SRT 1.2TL speakers a Parasound HCA3500 amp (these are staying) a parasound P3 preamp a lite audio tube dac 68
I was about to upgrade my preamp and dac to a Parasound P6 that combines the 2. But over at the polk forums they strongly recommended adding a tube preamp. to go with my poweramp and speakers. Now the question is what to add.
The reason why I want to replace my lite audio dac is because id doesn't do USB. Some of the tube preamp that are good can be pricey and I thought i would head over here to see if I could find an easy diy project that I could put together to get something better for less.
Are there options for diy tube dac's that can double as preamps too? I really dont need other inputs as all my media is digitally stored. what kind of things can i look for at different budget points. Say 1k. I could go higher if there is substantial improvement.
I was about to upgrade my preamp and dac to a Parasound P6 that combines the 2. But over at the polk forums they strongly recommended adding a tube preamp. to go with my poweramp and speakers. Now the question is what to add.
The reason why I want to replace my lite audio dac is because id doesn't do USB. Some of the tube preamp that are good can be pricey and I thought i would head over here to see if I could find an easy diy project that I could put together to get something better for less.
Are there options for diy tube dac's that can double as preamps too? I really dont need other inputs as all my media is digitally stored. what kind of things can i look for at different budget points. Say 1k. I could go higher if there is substantial improvement.
Don't buy anything unless you can try it and return it for a full refund. Any digital source will be able to drive your amp to full output without a preamp at all. All you really need is a simple 10k volume control.
Last edited:
Is there a good quality DAC that includes tubes? that I can use to replace the preamp as well? I got turned off on the parasound p6 after looking at pictures on the inside. seem they skimped on a good power source.
Don't know about tube DACs. What works well in a power supply can be less than obvious.
Suggest that you evaluate only on the sound.
I see 2 interesting items in the Parasound power amp specifications. First, the I/P impedance is a tube "friendly" 100 Kohms. Second, some line stage gain is needed for full power O/P, when the driving signal comes from a "standard" 2 VRMS digital source.
Dig through the archives for 12B4 based line stages. That type has a low amplification factor (μ) and a resistively loaded common cathode gain stage should provide a gain of approx. 4X. IMO, you will be very hard pressed to find a commercial line stage with that little gain. S/N performance will be maximized, when lots of attentuation followed by substantial gain is avoided.
Are you looking to drive a DAC from a USB cable?
Dig through the archives for 12B4 based line stages. That type has a low amplification factor (μ) and a resistively loaded common cathode gain stage should provide a gain of approx. 4X. IMO, you will be very hard pressed to find a commercial line stage with that little gain. S/N performance will be maximized, when lots of attentuation followed by substantial gain is avoided.
Are you looking to drive a DAC from a USB cable?
yeah. i use a windows 10 pc to play all my audio from. I was hoping for a USB dac to replace my current spdif one.
If substantial sound improvement is what you are looking for, use that money on upgrading speakers and room acoustics. Those two are what will give you substantial improvement for real. The rest of components prior to speaker terminal, don't waste your money.
Does your PC have a TOSLINK O/P? If so, buy a TOSLINK to SPDIF converter, unless the DAC you currently own already has a TOSLINK I/P.
i have a cheap chaintech sound card that I flashed based on some reading to bypass a lot of the internals.
alll i am using it for is the optical toslink out.
alll i am using it for is the optical toslink out.
What makes you think USB will deliver a better bitstream than TOSLINK? Source material "rules". The vast majority of recordings will be 44.1 KHz. "Red Book".
Build a 12B4 based line stage!
Build a 12B4 based line stage!
well maybe i didnt understand the articles I was reading correctly. but basically by using a USB dac you offload the timing that the dac needs to decode the digital data. and can reduce jitter. every now and then I experience listening fatigue and I thought this might be the issue. I have had my DAC since 2010 and was thinking of an upgrade to it and the preamp so hence I was looking for a USB dac since it has a lot more advanced capabilities now compared to 10 years ago.
I have some music in 96 as well. all of my music is in flac lossless format. Additionally I was wondering about DSD and if its something I should pay attention too of if its just snake oil.
I have some music in 96 as well. all of my music is in flac lossless format. Additionally I was wondering about DSD and if its something I should pay attention too of if its just snake oil.
i have tried to search for ways to upgrade the lite audio dac 68 and would be open to suggestions on that.
Another term I came across today is a tube buffer?
Would those be simpler to build and I can keep my current preamp but introduce some tubes into my chain?
Another term I came across today is a tube buffer?
Would those be simpler to build and I can keep my current preamp but introduce some tubes into my chain?
You can find a thread about a tube DAC project here: Valve DAC from Linear Audio volume 13
I don't think it is what you are looking for, though. It is not simple to build, the SINAD is not nearly as high as that of the best solid-state DACs, so in that sense it is not a good quality DAC, and it has an output level of only 1 V RMS, so it can't drive your HCA3500 amplifier further than about 50 W. It sounds nice, though.
It has its advantages and disadvantages. It's a very interesting format for DIY DAC builders who really want to make their own converter rather than a standard application of a DAC chip, as you can convert it to analog with very simple circuitry. It's also a format with lots of ultrasonic noise that can't be dithered properly and that is practically unusable for editing or other forms of digital signal processing.
You need some line stage gain, given the surprisingly low sensitivity of your Parasound power amp. Build a 12B4 based line stage!
Regardless of the technology employed, a properly functioning buffer will be transparent. If a tube based "buffer" actually impacts on the sound, it is a distortion machine. 😡
How are you playing back high resolution digital, when a cheapy sound card and an old DAC is the equipment being employed? Is the situation that you have recordings that currently can't be played?
See if changing the line stage improves the listener fatigue situation, before making any other alterations. Only 1 thing changes, at any given time.
IIRC, SACD requires a SACD capable player and the D/A process always takes place. Any digital O/Ps are disabled. Some SACD discs have a secondary "Red Book" layer that allows "ordinary" equipment to play them.
Regardless of the technology employed, a properly functioning buffer will be transparent. If a tube based "buffer" actually impacts on the sound, it is a distortion machine. 😡
How are you playing back high resolution digital, when a cheapy sound card and an old DAC is the equipment being employed? Is the situation that you have recordings that currently can't be played?
See if changing the line stage improves the listener fatigue situation, before making any other alterations. Only 1 thing changes, at any given time.
IIRC, SACD requires a SACD capable player and the D/A process always takes place. Any digital O/Ps are disabled. Some SACD discs have a secondary "Red Book" layer that allows "ordinary" equipment to play them.
Your question is not so simple to answer because it has multiple intersecting elements. I suppose, the first thing for you to decide or find out is whether or not you like the sound of tubes gear in general. If yes, then I suggest you strongly consider buying or building some triode tube based preamp or DAC w/USB. If no, then something like the Parasound P6 could be the way to go.
yeah i am leaning away from a diy dac. it seems more complicated. I was thinking about getting some premade chinese dac's? these are threads on audiosciencereview that measure sinad that i was thinking about using as a starting point to research some more to see what i want to spend. thoughts on any of them?
Jitter has not been an audible issue for about 20 years in digital audio. Plus, those who say it matters, are sellers.
Most likely cure is the speakers and room acoustics. Audio DAC has been a mature technology for 20 years or so. Spending more on it won't give you an audible improvement.
It's a snake oil.
i was mainly considering DSD if I was going to buy a dac to make sure it has some level of future proof and also more options to expeiment with various digital formats. I read some stuff about converting PCM to DSD prior to sending it to a DSD capable dac and am not sure if its hogwash or makes a difference.
thats what i am trying to get too. a decision on if I like tubes or not. my current DAC has tubes in it. I am not sure if its well implemented. maybe I hate tubes and so then the simplicity of the P6 makes this all moot :-(. but where is the fun in that. If i have a project to research and look forward too that is what makes me tick 🙂 lol
i will start looking that up that line stage recommendation. thank you
There was some articles about how the chaintech could be flashed and used with more expensive prodigy soundcard drivers which is what I am doing. I am bypassing and DAC conversion on the chip and sending out a bit perfect signal from the PC via optical out.
The Dac I have is perfectly capable of doing 96khz 24 bit. it wasnt cheap. maybe I wasted my money on it. but it seems capable of what i throw at it.
i dont plan on getting rid of it. I can use it as a dac+preamp in other areas of my house. I wanted someting that could do USB. i have read there is a lot more advantages to using a USB dac with a PC that spdif. If I could find some good readins on upgrading the old dac I would be happy. Other than new tubes for it. maybe other new caps etc...?
LITE DAC68
I am not getting rid of those speakers. I dont think they are the problem. They are old speakers but I have put some serious coin into upgrading crossovers/tweetes etc. There is plenty of threads on the polk forums discussing these.
I did get a measurement mic and am look into room eq wizard to test my room responses and am open to room treatments if my wife finds them aesthetically pleasing.
My Dac has tubes in it. I bought it at the time since I thought that would be a good way to intorduce "tubes" into my system. Could that be a weak point? maybe the tubes interfear with the conversion? the other posibility is it could be the soundcard I am using for the SPDIF out?
D/A conversion is always done by SS stuff. The tubes are in the amp that drives the line level analog O/Ps.
For instance, current type D/A converters have to work into I/V conversion circuitry. I recall the signal voltages being in the same mV. range as that produced by MM phono cartridges. Other than the need for RIAA equalization, the requirements are pretty much the same as found in phono stages.
For instance, current type D/A converters have to work into I/V conversion circuitry. I recall the signal voltages being in the same mV. range as that produced by MM phono cartridges. Other than the need for RIAA equalization, the requirements are pretty much the same as found in phono stages.
- Status
- Not open for further replies.