Hi,
I'm playing around trying to make myself a nice platter bearing, it has to be diy and I dont have a cnc lathe 🙂 (nor do I have a normal lathe)
At first I thought about magnetic one, could be done, I have access to big woofer donut magnets and Nd magnets easily, but I'm scared their magnetic fields might affect the cartridge in some ways.
Then came the idea of using a PC Hard drive motor as a bearing for the platter, those are made to be super resistant and precise.
air bearing is out of question... I'm not a fan of air pumps.. 🙂
So what do you guys think of the ideas.
Student budget is my only limitation but I have acess to lots of strange stuff (I work in a electronics store wich has 2 enormous backstores with surplus stuff)
I'm playing around trying to make myself a nice platter bearing, it has to be diy and I dont have a cnc lathe 🙂 (nor do I have a normal lathe)
At first I thought about magnetic one, could be done, I have access to big woofer donut magnets and Nd magnets easily, but I'm scared their magnetic fields might affect the cartridge in some ways.
Then came the idea of using a PC Hard drive motor as a bearing for the platter, those are made to be super resistant and precise.
air bearing is out of question... I'm not a fan of air pumps.. 🙂
So what do you guys think of the ideas.
Student budget is my only limitation but I have acess to lots of strange stuff (I work in a electronics store wich has 2 enormous backstores with surplus stuff)
My guess is that the motors for hard-drives are not intended to carry much weight.
I have also seen people use VCR head bearings for use in arms.
Petter
I have also seen people use VCR head bearings for use in arms.
Petter
Do a search! This has been discussed ad nauseum on this forum when there was interest in making a DIY TT. You can even find some info about it in the corresponding wiki.
You can buy a top notch bearing here,..
http://www.teresaudio.com/
or maybe here
http://www.redpoint-audio-design.com/products/index.html
Both part of the original Teres team..
If you want to give it a try yourself, I have the original drawings of this bearing, given to me by the original Teres designer.
The bearing drawings has been removed from the site, I think after some discrepancies among the first builders and designers.
I made my own bearing some time ago on a quite ordinary lathe...
just a bit more attention required...precision is the clue here.
http://www.teresaudio.com/
or maybe here
http://www.redpoint-audio-design.com/products/index.html
Both part of the original Teres team..
If you want to give it a try yourself, I have the original drawings of this bearing, given to me by the original Teres designer.
The bearing drawings has been removed from the site, I think after some discrepancies among the first builders and designers.
I made my own bearing some time ago on a quite ordinary lathe...
just a bit more attention required...precision is the clue here.
Petter,
Thanks for the reply, at first I thought that too, but then after playing with one, even after aplying alot of pressure on it, it didn't show any trouble, do you think problems will occur eventualy with long term use? Or maybe a lighter plinth will help? 33.1/3 isnt too fast, I based my idea on that...
Havoc,
I've read every single diy TT thread on this forum, I thought I aknowledged this when starting a new thread and clicked "I've searched on the forum" I didnt know I had to explain this even after procceding with this standard procedure.
The only reference to a DIY Magnetic bearing was done on the "let's start a diyaudio TT" thread, and was only discussed by one reply by Planet10 saying it would be harder to create than a air bearing, but would be possible using speaker magnets.
And excuse me if my ignorance on how to search properly hasn't lead me to the discovery of threads talking about using a hard drive motor as bearing.
AuroraB,
Probably if I had the money for a bearing like this one, I wouldnt even post here on how to create a low-budget one.
I wish I owned a lathe or had access to one.
Thanks for the reply, at first I thought that too, but then after playing with one, even after aplying alot of pressure on it, it didn't show any trouble, do you think problems will occur eventualy with long term use? Or maybe a lighter plinth will help? 33.1/3 isnt too fast, I based my idea on that...
Havoc,
I've read every single diy TT thread on this forum, I thought I aknowledged this when starting a new thread and clicked "I've searched on the forum" I didnt know I had to explain this even after procceding with this standard procedure.
The only reference to a DIY Magnetic bearing was done on the "let's start a diyaudio TT" thread, and was only discussed by one reply by Planet10 saying it would be harder to create than a air bearing, but would be possible using speaker magnets.
And excuse me if my ignorance on how to search properly hasn't lead me to the discovery of threads talking about using a hard drive motor as bearing.
AuroraB,
Probably if I had the money for a bearing like this one, I wouldnt even post here on how to create a low-budget one.
I wish I owned a lathe or had access to one.
Sorry for not reading thoroughly..
A magnetic bearing was used in the early Verdier "La Platine".
It was described quite extensively some time in the late 80s in the french mag l'Audiophile, as a DIY project..
You will still need a lathe to turn the pole pieces acting as a sideways bearing, even if the platter is suspended on a mag. field
A magnetic bearing was used in the early Verdier "La Platine".
It was described quite extensively some time in the late 80s in the french mag l'Audiophile, as a DIY project..
You will still need a lathe to turn the pole pieces acting as a sideways bearing, even if the platter is suspended on a mag. field
I think you would probably do well to find an electronics enthusiast who is also a machinist and swap him some of that surplus gear you have access to for a nicely made bearing 😀
Probably the easiest DIY bearing to make would be the 'Well Tempered' type. It's clever design removes the need for high precision in manufacture ( although you never get something for nothing and the downside will be a little careful setup work during assembly ) . The US patent number is 4,792,938 - inventors name Wiliam Firebaugh - do a search on the USPTO website to find it.
I haven't tried it myself, but I intend to in the near future. Even though I have a pretty well equipped machine shop, this design is still attractive to me because it is so elegant.
You could probably make one from stock materials and whatever you can scrounge, but you'll definitely need access to a bench drill, taps and some skill and care. To align it when it's built will take a jig, ideally one using a DTI indicator. It's do-able on a limited budget\limited equipment basis I would say.
Another approach if you are going to DIY a turntable would be to rob a bearing from a defunct Japanese TT ( which usually have some well engineered parts inside them and cost peanuts )
I have a Rotel RP-830 which is 18 years old and the bearing is as good as the day it left the factory. It isn't very 'trick' or fashionable but it has minimal sideplay and is inaudible to all practical purposes.
Good Luck 😀
Probably the easiest DIY bearing to make would be the 'Well Tempered' type. It's clever design removes the need for high precision in manufacture ( although you never get something for nothing and the downside will be a little careful setup work during assembly ) . The US patent number is 4,792,938 - inventors name Wiliam Firebaugh - do a search on the USPTO website to find it.
I haven't tried it myself, but I intend to in the near future. Even though I have a pretty well equipped machine shop, this design is still attractive to me because it is so elegant.
You could probably make one from stock materials and whatever you can scrounge, but you'll definitely need access to a bench drill, taps and some skill and care. To align it when it's built will take a jig, ideally one using a DTI indicator. It's do-able on a limited budget\limited equipment basis I would say.
Another approach if you are going to DIY a turntable would be to rob a bearing from a defunct Japanese TT ( which usually have some well engineered parts inside them and cost peanuts )
I have a Rotel RP-830 which is 18 years old and the bearing is as good as the day it left the factory. It isn't very 'trick' or fashionable but it has minimal sideplay and is inaudible to all practical purposes.
Good Luck 😀
Teres bearing
AuroraB,
I would be interested in the drawings if you don't mind sharing. I am taking a CNC Mill as well as a CNC Lathe course...might be a good project for Spring term.
Best regards,
Steve.
AuroraB,
I would be interested in the drawings if you don't mind sharing. I am taking a CNC Mill as well as a CNC Lathe course...might be a good project for Spring term.
Best regards,
Steve.
Sorry, but the way you posed the question led me to believe you just ticked the box.
Thing is HD platter bearings were discussed and dismissed. I took a HD apart, and the bearing is part of the case and the spindle, it is not a separate thing. Also the only ones usable would be ball bearings as the fluid dynamic ones are designed for a certain speed. And BB was dismissed on noise production. (I'm not totaly convinced on that point, but thats another thing)
Sid-W,
Awsome stuff, I may try that out, not too expensive either, I saw 1 foot long, 1/4 inch thick Teflon rods at McMaster-Carr for around 1$
Theres Brass rods, around 8$ for 3" long and 1/2" inch thick at McMaster-Carr
And I need something like a housing, I guess a square one rather than round might be easier to work with. The main problem is how to make the teflon pads easily adjustable. I'd guess a plastic housing would be easier to work with too.
What about using teflon rings that the shaft will get in? more points of contact but better stability.
As of tools, I have a bench drill, bench saw, jig saw, normal drills etc...
but I dont have a metal lathe 🙂
AuroraB,
wow, I was unnaware something like this existed, And I guess that as the 2 equal magnetic fields opose one another the magnets don't affect the cartridge in any ways.
Might be fun to try I have alot of speaker magnets at my job.
Havoc,
Yes BB might introduce noise, thats why I thought of Hdd bearings, I thought maybe those would be ultra low noise.
Well.. they can be removed off the Hdd casing.. just use something to hit the shaft off the housing from behind.
Awsome stuff, I may try that out, not too expensive either, I saw 1 foot long, 1/4 inch thick Teflon rods at McMaster-Carr for around 1$
Theres Brass rods, around 8$ for 3" long and 1/2" inch thick at McMaster-Carr
And I need something like a housing, I guess a square one rather than round might be easier to work with. The main problem is how to make the teflon pads easily adjustable. I'd guess a plastic housing would be easier to work with too.
What about using teflon rings that the shaft will get in? more points of contact but better stability.
As of tools, I have a bench drill, bench saw, jig saw, normal drills etc...
but I dont have a metal lathe 🙂
AuroraB,
wow, I was unnaware something like this existed, And I guess that as the 2 equal magnetic fields opose one another the magnets don't affect the cartridge in any ways.
Might be fun to try I have alot of speaker magnets at my job.
Havoc,
Yes BB might introduce noise, thats why I thought of Hdd bearings, I thought maybe those would be ultra low noise.
Well.. they can be removed off the Hdd casing.. just use something to hit the shaft off the housing from behind.
If you hear the racket my pc makes you would think otherwise. But still, while a lot of arguments against BBs were made, I still have my doubts about it. Personally, I would give it a try. But HD BBs are rather small and more optimised for high speed running. At the time I was thinking about bearings made for die stamping tools. I once saw a catalog of those, and there exsist BBs for guiding the shafts of dies. You can have them with several clearances, including negative ones. So there would be no play in the bearing. Also strong enough.
But to be honest, I gave up. What is the need for going to such extremes, when for a small amount you can pick up a perfectly usable TT. Apart from bragging rights of course....
I tried to use a couple of neodimium magnet to build a TT bearing, but inspite of the alignment of magnets the magnetic field was not uniform so I verified a platter oscillation.
Look for a specialized hardware store selling mould components, you can find hardened steel or tugsten carbide cilinders, bronze guide bushes and more.
Look for a specialized hardware store selling mould components, you can find hardened steel or tugsten carbide cilinders, bronze guide bushes and more.
Hi Jerry,
1. Don't forget about thrust plate, i.e. special insert within the bearing housing, facing the ball and bearing the axial load. The contact surface with the ball is of primary importance, should be very smooth ( SS mirror, teflon, delrin), otherwise bad vibrations will be induced.
2. Moreower, ball-plate contact need oil to work as it is supposed. Your inverted bearing (ball on top) should have small oil bath on top of the axle - not easy to implement. Why don't you start with convential bearing: ball in the bottom, the cavity is filled with oil.
3. The ball, as a main source of vibration, is placed dangerously close to the centering pin. So, vibrations will be effectively coupled with the record.
Regards,
Michael
1. Don't forget about thrust plate, i.e. special insert within the bearing housing, facing the ball and bearing the axial load. The contact surface with the ball is of primary importance, should be very smooth ( SS mirror, teflon, delrin), otherwise bad vibrations will be induced.
2. Moreower, ball-plate contact need oil to work as it is supposed. Your inverted bearing (ball on top) should have small oil bath on top of the axle - not easy to implement. Why don't you start with convential bearing: ball in the bottom, the cavity is filled with oil.
3. The ball, as a main source of vibration, is placed dangerously close to the centering pin. So, vibrations will be effectively coupled with the record.
Regards,
Michael
Hi Michael
Thanks for your reply
I made this drawing in comparison with the clearaudio champion bearing, only bigger.
The top of the pin will be rounded so the contact area will be less than 1mm². The only thing i have to take care of, is that they are in alignment.
But you have got a good point, think i'll make a conventional bearing as well. That way i can realy test if i can hear the difference between the two.
Thanks for your reply
I made this drawing in comparison with the clearaudio champion bearing, only bigger.
The top of the pin will be rounded so the contact area will be less than 1mm². The only thing i have to take care of, is that they are in alignment.
But you have got a good point, think i'll make a conventional bearing as well. That way i can realy test if i can hear the difference between the two.
I use a POM ( derlin ) thrust plate because derlin has a good resistance at mineral oils, 0.02mm clearance is too high you may expertise vibrations I use a 0.005-0.007 clearance with a ISO VG 32 - 46 mineral oil for a perfect coupling.
For the platter use a cast plate of alluminium not a laminated coil.
For the platter use a cast plate of alluminium not a laminated coil.
0.02mm is to much you say, ok i'll make it less than 0.01mm.
btw, Isn't it supeosed to be "Delrin" instead of "Derlin"?
PS. I would like to produce all the parts myself, i've got acces to C.N.C. machinery.
btw, Isn't it supeosed to be "Delrin" instead of "Derlin"?
PS. I would like to produce all the parts myself, i've got acces to C.N.C. machinery.
I made a mistake it's "delrin".
To obtain less than 0.01 mm clearance without a special grinding machine you 'll find useful a diamond polishing kit.
To obtain less than 0.01 mm clearance without a special grinding machine you 'll find useful a diamond polishing kit.
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