Hey guys,
I've done quite a bit of searching on this site and via Google and have come up empty-handed.
First I'll describe my current setup so you know what I am working with, then get to the question later.
I've got a Yamaha RXV363 driving PSB Image B15 fronts, a Precision Acoustics HDC centre, a Precision Acoustics HD10 sub and some older silver Pioneer HTIB rear surrounds. Just to get it out of the way, I recently chose the PA centre and sub because a) they were $89 and $99 on sale, b) I am not nearly as critical about imaging and sound stage when watching movies as I am when listening to 2-channel audio. Having said that, the PA centre actually doesn't clash very much at all between my B15s in 5-channel music mode and the sub is actually quite solid now that I have the crossover setup to blend with the B15s (around 75hz). I doubt I could have done a better DIY of either for the same money (runs from flames).
So, I'm relatively satisfied with the fronts and sub; it is the rear surround/satellites that I need to address. As I said, they are from a very low end Pioneer HTIB setup that I used to own, so they are pretty crappy. Just a single 3" full range in a small, plastic, sealed enclosure which sounds fairly "shouty". I have the receiver crossover set at 200hz to prevent them from crunching the bass.
This is all exacerbated by the fact that I am in a very small room and the only place for the surrounds is on coffee tables at each end of the couch, maybe 1 foot behind and 1 foot beside our shoulders. If standard aiming is used, this results in a very directional, shouty sound from the closest speaker and basically nothing from the furthest speaker (my wife gets all the RR and I get all the LR). As a temporary fix, I have simply set the speakers on their backs, against the walls and aim them straight at the ceiling. This works quite well to remove the directionality and the shoutiness, but the overall sound quality is still decidedly lacking.
So I started to look around at small satellite speakers and found that nothing on the market is really ideal. I might get better sound quality, but the speakers would almost certainly need to be laying on their backs just as they are now in order to avoid the issues described.
Then I started looking into DIY and found the parts-express site. It looks like I could fairly easily fit the HiVi B3S driver in the existing pioneer enclosures. I suspect the sound quality would be better than the stock driver, but I would still end up with ugly silver satellites laying on their backs.
So, the question is (and I apologize for being so long-winded); are there any top-firing designs out there that use a full-range 3" driver and that won't look entirely ridiculous on my end tables? I love the idea of DIY audio and this seems like a great project to begin with because I can avoid crossovers, etc. (I know Zaph recommends a notch filter for this driver, but I figure cutting it off at 200hz and leaving the rest wide open is probably sufficient for my intended use).
I'd love to optimize the WAF by making them as pretty and simple as possible. It would be even better if I could integrate a "vase" for some dried flower arrangements or something, but maybe I'm (she's) asking too much? 😀
I've done quite a bit of searching on this site and via Google and have come up empty-handed.
First I'll describe my current setup so you know what I am working with, then get to the question later.
I've got a Yamaha RXV363 driving PSB Image B15 fronts, a Precision Acoustics HDC centre, a Precision Acoustics HD10 sub and some older silver Pioneer HTIB rear surrounds. Just to get it out of the way, I recently chose the PA centre and sub because a) they were $89 and $99 on sale, b) I am not nearly as critical about imaging and sound stage when watching movies as I am when listening to 2-channel audio. Having said that, the PA centre actually doesn't clash very much at all between my B15s in 5-channel music mode and the sub is actually quite solid now that I have the crossover setup to blend with the B15s (around 75hz). I doubt I could have done a better DIY of either for the same money (runs from flames).
So, I'm relatively satisfied with the fronts and sub; it is the rear surround/satellites that I need to address. As I said, they are from a very low end Pioneer HTIB setup that I used to own, so they are pretty crappy. Just a single 3" full range in a small, plastic, sealed enclosure which sounds fairly "shouty". I have the receiver crossover set at 200hz to prevent them from crunching the bass.
This is all exacerbated by the fact that I am in a very small room and the only place for the surrounds is on coffee tables at each end of the couch, maybe 1 foot behind and 1 foot beside our shoulders. If standard aiming is used, this results in a very directional, shouty sound from the closest speaker and basically nothing from the furthest speaker (my wife gets all the RR and I get all the LR). As a temporary fix, I have simply set the speakers on their backs, against the walls and aim them straight at the ceiling. This works quite well to remove the directionality and the shoutiness, but the overall sound quality is still decidedly lacking.
So I started to look around at small satellite speakers and found that nothing on the market is really ideal. I might get better sound quality, but the speakers would almost certainly need to be laying on their backs just as they are now in order to avoid the issues described.
Then I started looking into DIY and found the parts-express site. It looks like I could fairly easily fit the HiVi B3S driver in the existing pioneer enclosures. I suspect the sound quality would be better than the stock driver, but I would still end up with ugly silver satellites laying on their backs.
So, the question is (and I apologize for being so long-winded); are there any top-firing designs out there that use a full-range 3" driver and that won't look entirely ridiculous on my end tables? I love the idea of DIY audio and this seems like a great project to begin with because I can avoid crossovers, etc. (I know Zaph recommends a notch filter for this driver, but I figure cutting it off at 200hz and leaving the rest wide open is probably sufficient for my intended use).
I'd love to optimize the WAF by making them as pretty and simple as possible. It would be even better if I could integrate a "vase" for some dried flower arrangements or something, but maybe I'm (she's) asking too much? 😀
I know you guys are into much higher-end stuff than this and maybe I have chosen the wrong forum, but I'll keep you all posted on my project anyway, just for ***** n' giggles.
I'm thinking I might go with a modified version of this project Parts Express DIY Project
I'll use a smaller diameter sonotube than he did, and I'll make it a closed enclosure stuffed with damping rather than ported, then I'll stand it on end to get my desired top-firing configuration.
I've mocked it up as a 2.1 litre enclosure in WinISD and it looks like it'll work fine, especially since I'll be cutting it off at 200hz.
I'm thinking I might go with a modified version of this project Parts Express DIY Project
I'll use a smaller diameter sonotube than he did, and I'll make it a closed enclosure stuffed with damping rather than ported, then I'll stand it on end to get my desired top-firing configuration.
I've mocked it up as a 2.1 litre enclosure in WinISD and it looks like it'll work fine, especially since I'll be cutting it off at 200hz.
Put a little wooden sphere in front of the speaker , and make the box ..boxy 😛
Like an ashtray . Since they're so little ,you can focus on finding various kinds of wood (essences) .
Like an ashtray . Since they're so little ,you can focus on finding various kinds of wood (essences) .
Looks like a great idea. Put it upright, and attach 4 rubber bumper feet to the bottom. If a vent is required, put it firing down against the table they are sitting on. 1/2" or 5/8" clearance should be fine for the port with a nice smooth expansion out to the edges of the tube.
I have made some tall narrow computer speakers using the online calculator pointed to by Madisound, and down firing ports, and they turned out great.
-Tom-
I have made some tall narrow computer speakers using the online calculator pointed to by Madisound, and down firing ports, and they turned out great.
-Tom-
Some people like to be able to localize the rear surrounds but I like them very diffuse. If you did a small open-backed box, it could be very un-obtrusive with only a single driver per channel. What works well is firing in two directions, e.g. elevated above the listeners if possible, firing left and right so the user is getting zero direct sound from the rear surrounds. One person's opinion!
Thanks to all who have replied!
picowallspeaker, I am having trouble visualizing what you have described, but it sounds intriguing.
Tom V, thanks for the idea about the vent/port and the rubber feet. I think a closed cabinet might be sufficient since I don't really need anything below 200hz from them (or am I wrong here?), but I'll definitely get some rubber feet.
gvimhoof, interesting idea. Not sure how my wife would like that, unless I somehow made them into "objets d'art" of some sort. Maybe hanging plant holders with integrated surrounds. But then there's "the wires".
rjbond3rd, I think in larger rooms where the rear channels can actually be behind the listeners and some distance away the sounds are naturally dispersed/diffused (depending a lot on the speaker design and the room, I suppose). I too prefer diffused surrounds and a small room makes this a challenge if the surrounds are nearly sitting on your shoulder. As stated, this is the key challenge to the design. I have read a bit about open baffle designs but I have more to learn about them. Part of the appeal of the cylinder design is the possibility of mounting the driver in an angled baffle (maybe 30 or 40 degrees) at the top of the cylinder and being able to simply rotate the cylinder to "aim" the driver in the ideal direction. If I inset the binding posts in the (thick) base of the cabinet, the cylinder will "look good" regardless of its orientation.
picowallspeaker, I am having trouble visualizing what you have described, but it sounds intriguing.
Tom V, thanks for the idea about the vent/port and the rubber feet. I think a closed cabinet might be sufficient since I don't really need anything below 200hz from them (or am I wrong here?), but I'll definitely get some rubber feet.
gvimhoof, interesting idea. Not sure how my wife would like that, unless I somehow made them into "objets d'art" of some sort. Maybe hanging plant holders with integrated surrounds. But then there's "the wires".
rjbond3rd, I think in larger rooms where the rear channels can actually be behind the listeners and some distance away the sounds are naturally dispersed/diffused (depending a lot on the speaker design and the room, I suppose). I too prefer diffused surrounds and a small room makes this a challenge if the surrounds are nearly sitting on your shoulder. As stated, this is the key challenge to the design. I have read a bit about open baffle designs but I have more to learn about them. Part of the appeal of the cylinder design is the possibility of mounting the driver in an angled baffle (maybe 30 or 40 degrees) at the top of the cylinder and being able to simply rotate the cylinder to "aim" the driver in the ideal direction. If I inset the binding posts in the (thick) base of the cabinet, the cylinder will "look good" regardless of its orientation.
The Fountek FR88EX or FR89 would work very well here. (Alternately, you can just use the B3S -in - a -box.)
Hi Cogitech,
How about a down firing satellite instead? I am fascinated by Razer's Mako.
I guess Picowall actually mean you can put a sphere over the speaker so that it functions as a deflector and hence give omnidirectional sound.
Cheers,
Boris
How about a down firing satellite instead? I am fascinated by Razer's Mako.
I guess Picowall actually mean you can put a sphere over the speaker so that it functions as a deflector and hence give omnidirectional sound.
Cheers,
Boris
Here are a couple of ideas.
Note: I do not imply that with respect to SWMBO that they are good ideas!😀
Woofer Speaker System by Sander Mulder for Cultivate - Free Shipping
Note: I do not imply that with respect to SWMBO that they are good ideas!😀
Woofer Speaker System by Sander Mulder for Cultivate - Free Shipping
Attachments
Spasticteapot, thanks for the driver recommendations. I see they have them at Solen, so they are now on my list of possibilities.
borispm, I'll have a look at Razer's Mako for sure...
c2cthomas, that dog is awesome. Not quite our style, but nevertheless a cool idea. What is SWMBO?
Thanks for all your input guys!
borispm, I'll have a look at Razer's Mako for sure...
c2cthomas, that dog is awesome. Not quite our style, but nevertheless a cool idea. What is SWMBO?
Thanks for all your input guys!
I've been discussing this with a co-worker and he really likes this idea, too.
I'm thinking I'll use two (maybe 3) layers of 3/4" MDF as a base so I have enough depth to inset the binding posts and then three, 1/2" rubber feet to allow clearance for the speaker cable and to mitigate vibration on the table. If get the dimensions of the tube tuned right for one of those 88mm Fountek drivers and implement good damping, they might just sound and look half decent 🙂
SWMBO = She Who Must Be Obeyed 😉😀
Does not need to be dog! Could be a cat! Maybe a dragon? Beer Keg??? 😀😀😀
The concept is to "make pretty" the device that holds the speaker. I had thoughts about exactly where you could place a speaker port in the bulldog - but I'll leave that up to your imagination. 🙄
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I don't even start a project without WAF being #1 priority. The trick is in making us both happy. Well duh!!! Ain't that how it's supposed to be? 😉
A couple more questions:
I'm trying to keep my budget for this project very low. With this in mind, I have noticed that if I spend say $12 on a basic 3" driver I will end up with something that has lackluster response on the high-end (Hi-Vi B3N). However, the same $12 spent on a 2" driver can get me something that has much better highs (Tang Band W2-1803S).
I've been doing some playing in WinISD and have found that a ported version of my cabinet combined with the 2" Tang Band (W2-1803S) looks like it would provide the results I am looking for.
Since I plan on setting my receiver crossover at 200hz (maybe 160hz) and the 2" Tang Band can do 155hz, I figure I'm gaining more than I am losing by going with the 2" ported over the 3" closed. The 2" is just so much better in the range that I am interested in for rear surrounds. Does this make sense?
My one concern is that the 2" Tang Band is rated at 3W nominal and 6W max, and it's sensitivity is only 82db. Is this sufficient for "normal" listening volumes? Some googling and calculations seem to indicate that 3 or 4 watts at 82db sensitivity is plenty loud enough... Peak SPL Calculator
I'm trying to keep my budget for this project very low. With this in mind, I have noticed that if I spend say $12 on a basic 3" driver I will end up with something that has lackluster response on the high-end (Hi-Vi B3N). However, the same $12 spent on a 2" driver can get me something that has much better highs (Tang Band W2-1803S).
I've been doing some playing in WinISD and have found that a ported version of my cabinet combined with the 2" Tang Band (W2-1803S) looks like it would provide the results I am looking for.
Since I plan on setting my receiver crossover at 200hz (maybe 160hz) and the 2" Tang Band can do 155hz, I figure I'm gaining more than I am losing by going with the 2" ported over the 3" closed. The 2" is just so much better in the range that I am interested in for rear surrounds. Does this make sense?
My one concern is that the 2" Tang Band is rated at 3W nominal and 6W max, and it's sensitivity is only 82db. Is this sufficient for "normal" listening volumes? Some googling and calculations seem to indicate that 3 or 4 watts at 82db sensitivity is plenty loud enough... Peak SPL Calculator
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Hi cogitech,
Did you go through the madisound catalogue as well? They have some brilliant Aurasound drivers on sale. NS3-194-8A is around $12/piece, and even better they have the cheaper paper variants as well as a 2" paper driver, both at around $3/piece! If you worry about the top half-octave though, you will want the 2" driver more.
I have no faith in the Tangband you've mentioned though... The magnet is too small for my taste, not to forget Tangband often overrate the sensitivity. I suspect that's the SPL achieved per pair.
Boris
Did you go through the madisound catalogue as well? They have some brilliant Aurasound drivers on sale. NS3-194-8A is around $12/piece, and even better they have the cheaper paper variants as well as a 2" paper driver, both at around $3/piece! If you worry about the top half-octave though, you will want the 2" driver more.
I have no faith in the Tangband you've mentioned though... The magnet is too small for my taste, not to forget Tangband often overrate the sensitivity. I suspect that's the SPL achieved per pair.
Boris
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