Hi
I have a situation where I need to delay a pair of B&W DM100i speakers for ~8ms. I have an another set around 3 meters away from the speakers. Is there any way to do it without expensive hardware?
I have a situation where I need to delay a pair of B&W DM100i speakers for ~8ms. I have an another set around 3 meters away from the speakers. Is there any way to do it without expensive hardware?
Hi,
i disagree with Allen: any 50euro multieffect or dedicated delay can do 8ms easily.
But description is not accurate enough: is it the same signal played by the two pairs at same time?is it multichannel? How many amplifier? Source kind/type ( if digital into a computer it might be easier to implement...).
i disagree with Allen: any 50euro multieffect or dedicated delay can do 8ms easily.
But description is not accurate enough: is it the same signal played by the two pairs at same time?is it multichannel? How many amplifier? Source kind/type ( if digital into a computer it might be easier to implement...).
The signal is the same in both pairs, coming from a multichannel JVC reciever. Source is a cassette deck, vinyl player and a computer.
The issue is that I need the delay to be after the amplifier and before the speakers in the signal chain.
And I was wondering if anyone knows about a solution which could be maybe a passive component or a dsp or whatever. Especially if anyone knows about any cheap solutions (for example if there is a device at aliexpress that does that for example)
The issue is that I need the delay to be after the amplifier and before the speakers in the signal chain.
And I was wondering if anyone knows about a solution which could be maybe a passive component or a dsp or whatever. Especially if anyone knows about any cheap solutions (for example if there is a device at aliexpress that does that for example)
Ok in this case it's not as easy.
The issue is the receiver, if it doesn't implement an independant delay for each output you are stuck.
The cheapest would be to invest in a 'real' loudspeaker management system ( dcx2496, or any 'dsp') and a second amplifier.
Maybe there is 'high level' input thingy from car audio enabling this kind of thing but i would be doubtful about the quality ( ADC/DAC).
The issue is the receiver, if it doesn't implement an independant delay for each output you are stuck.
The cheapest would be to invest in a 'real' loudspeaker management system ( dcx2496, or any 'dsp') and a second amplifier.
Maybe there is 'high level' input thingy from car audio enabling this kind of thing but i would be doubtful about the quality ( ADC/DAC).
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If its an AV receiver can you not use the speaker distance settings in the menu to set 1 pair 3 metres further away from listening position than the other pair ?
If you have measuring equipment etc.
The 'cheap' solution is to use passive all pass filters for time delay.
Similar to what Thiel ,GMA and other producers did, with they're 'time aligned' first order xos.
But that will interact with the existing XO etc. so not a easy and painfree way to do it.
But a digital product is easier to use/manipulate, needs no tinkering, calculations or reconfiguring the passive XO.
The JVC RX 206 is not that capable sadly, otherwise there wouldn't be a problem.
Yeah, that's what I figured as well.
Maybe I'll invest in a better receiver in the future then that allows separate channel control.
But until then I'm still open to ideas. Or rather concrete products that they've found on the internet which could be of suspicious quality for example.
I checked your jvc manual: there is a record out so you could use it to drive a digital delay unit which could in turn drive an amp.
Something like a yamaha ddl3 should cost maybe 50euros second hand and a small amp in same price range...
That said level control would not be as direct...
Is it for surround ?
Something like a yamaha ddl3 should cost maybe 50euros second hand and a small amp in same price range...
That said level control would not be as direct...
Is it for surround ?
So in theory a fourth order reflex speaker with a third order high pass filter, with 2nd on the woofer compensates 8ms at 100Hz. In practice it won't be as simple, naturally.
Allen, do you know if an allpass could induce 8ms delay? It would need a number of cells in series to achieve such a high value from my understanding.
Ah you're right! But that would be a lot of extra steps and not what I want to spend my time, money and energy on since I can do without it as well.
It is for surround basically yes, but not in a traditional sense. I have my main speakers just behind me near the wall (the only place they fit in the room), behind the couch and I want to add a pair of high frequency speakers to the front, just to fill in a little bit of the higher energy that gets lost due to playing from the back.
And there's a very high chance that this all turns out not working the way I imagine it would, but that's why I want to experiment with the placement a bit.
Sure, anything could be done.
I'd put a lot of effort into optimising one, not like I've done here just for simple proof of concept. I've made phase within +/-90 degrees of 8ms for two octaves at 100Hz.
With whatever delay you will introduce comb filter effects in the response, as you won’t be able to put your head in the exact right spot (it really is a question of a few cm). So I don’t think this is a good idea. But don’t let that stop you from experimenting.
There is one issue as markbakk has pointed out and that is combing effects in the response.
If you are looking into all pass filters, these papers are a good read.
I did not say it is a good or easy solution for your situation. Just that it is possible to do so, and that you don't really need a dsp or electronics to do it.
Worthy of experimentation maybe if you like to do so.
If you are looking into all pass filters, these papers are a good read.
I did not say it is a good or easy solution for your situation. Just that it is possible to do so, and that you don't really need a dsp or electronics to do it.
Worthy of experimentation maybe if you like to do so.
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Not to forget too, that the higher rolloff of the smaller speaker is already reducing that delay length.