The truth about high end preamps?

[lagoausente]

I´m guessing why some high end mic preamps can be so expensive. For example, Neve , Summit, Avalon etc.
Do they use special electronic components? Can´t be build mysefl for afordable price with the same quality?
I just need a stereo mic preamp, portable if posible, and battery powered would be good.
Neve has Portico, that cost 1500. Can´t be done DIY?

 

[phn]

Can´t be done DIY?

Of course it can. Just Google. Lots of mic preamp schematics around.

 

[hagtech]

Sometimes the cost can really add up. For example, if you use tubes. Or use quality transformers.

Early this year I designed an all-tube mic preamp & compressor combo from scratch. It used Lundahl signal trannys on both input and output (a $350 cost alone!). Well, to make along story short, by the time I was done (and this was a world-class design), the raw part cost was $1100. It would have had to retail for $4k or so.

Hence, the DW Fearn, Manley, Groove Tubes, Universal Audio etc. all cost you $3k to $8k. Hey, if you want the best circuits (and the best sound), it doesn't come cheap. The ADL600 seems to be quite a bargain at $2k.

jh

 

[Rent-A-Rocker]

seventh circle audio

 

[scott wurcer]

seventh circle audio

Second that, really nice build quality for kits and the low end one at $79 a channel, I would never bother scrounging up all the parts and ordering my own boards.

 

[fizzard]

Smaller volume than consumer electronics, smaller market with less competition. Most of them use transformer coupling at the input, and even a "cheap" Jensen isn't that cheap from a DIY perspective.

I'm working on a portable mic pre-amp with phantom power myself, discrete JFET ofcoursse, for my camcorder. I'm going sans transformer, and using capacitors on the input. A hi-fi faux pas, but better than a transformer I feel. I might even do it without capacitors too, I have a few ideas in mind.

 

[KBK]

Sometimes the cost can really add up. For example, if you use tubes. Or use quality transformers.

Early this year I designed an all-tube mic preamp & compressor combo from scratch. It used Lundahl signal trannys on both input and output (a $350 cost alone!). Well, to make along story short, by the time I was done (and this was a world-class design), the raw part cost was $1100. It would have had to retail for $4k or so.

Hence, the DW Fearn, Manley, Groove Tubes, Universal Audio etc. all cost you $3k to $8k. Hey, if you want the best circuits (and the best sound), it doesn't come cheap. The ADL600 seems to be quite a bargain at $2k.

jh

Let's say that quantity pricing gets you down to $950.

Then the perfection of assembly and packaging gets you back up to $1025.

$1025 times(X) the necessary multiplier of a MINIMUM of 2.25x your costs. If you don't do that, you won't survive. 3x is better to maintain stability.

So, you are up to $3075 to get to the 'distributor cost', for 1, and maybe minus 2-5% for 5 lot purchasing, and no more than 2% extra, for prompt payment. It's money over time.

$3075 x 1.35 to 1.45, to get to 'dealer cost', as let's face it, good distribution and Brick and mortar store support is essential for them to carry and attempt to sell anything. The dealers must be protected in their market to even bother, otherwise, they'll sell something else that is.

That's $3075 x 1.35= $4150 per item, at dealer cost. High end pro gear tens to have a multiple of about 1.62 to 1.75 dealer cost as a minimum, to be able to have enough room for the store to survive, via discounting, or whatever means they can, to have the customer believe the bargain price is real and sincere, and the dealer needs that as minimums in order to spend money to product to sell..wisely and to keep the store open. Otherwise, they should just close the doors, they are going to not be around long.

The list price ends up being about:

$6750 to $7250, to maybe as high a $7999.00.

Which illustrates the important point of controlling costs at the manufacturing end. Which is why the more careful and prudent survive, the rest don't unless they gain the support of dealers and general belief in the product. It's a long climb, generally. This can be shortened up with audibly superior product, or other means of gaining solid support. Bose does by creating the belief in their product being superior, via mas marketing saturation. Sony has gained the reputation of similar nature as well, with regards to the ideas of the general buying public. A long haul for sure. Long term commitments. Larger manufacturers with reputation can cut pricing to some degree, but not by much.

Those are the hard numbers, in general. One can see why the cheaply assembled stuff coming out of China does so well, quality or not...

To be clear, this is electronics manufacturing and general manufacturing in the western world, with regards to the better products.... Nothing nefarious, it's the way it's been done for years. Many times the ratio is even higher, depending on the general impression of the given device or product in the marketplace.