I will attempt to start a poll where everyone can vote on "the best sounding valve design of the last two decades"
This post here is where the candidates will be gathered. The valve design that you think should be on the list of candidates should be stated below in this topic by you. After sufficient candidates are gathered here, I will attempt to start the poll.
I know that the poll won't be accurate because of the myriad variables (and issues) but it will still be interesting and fun to see which modern valve amp design gets the most votes.
See post number 28 in the third page of the following topic;
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/tubes-valves/246811-todays-version-williamson-amp.html
criteria:
* no limit on watts
* must be a design that was considered new and didn't exist before 1990
* the design should be named by the name brand and model number that popularized it (this doesn't mean that the amp was as popular as the ST-70 but hopefully more than 100 were made
* any and all topologies are candidates.
* a significant mod to an older design is acceptable to list below
* please provide not only the name and model but also the short summary of the topology
* the poll will be clear that people are to vote SOLELY on the sound quality (accurate reproduction) and no other attributes should be considered (e.g. Not wattage, not feedback, not support, not ease of use, not ergonomics, not cosmetics, not warranty, not ease of service, NOTHING but pure accurate sound quality)
This post here is where the candidates will be gathered. The valve design that you think should be on the list of candidates should be stated below in this topic by you. After sufficient candidates are gathered here, I will attempt to start the poll.
I know that the poll won't be accurate because of the myriad variables (and issues) but it will still be interesting and fun to see which modern valve amp design gets the most votes.
See post number 28 in the third page of the following topic;
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/tubes-valves/246811-todays-version-williamson-amp.html
criteria:
* no limit on watts
* must be a design that was considered new and didn't exist before 1990
* the design should be named by the name brand and model number that popularized it (this doesn't mean that the amp was as popular as the ST-70 but hopefully more than 100 were made
* any and all topologies are candidates.
* a significant mod to an older design is acceptable to list below
* please provide not only the name and model but also the short summary of the topology
* the poll will be clear that people are to vote SOLELY on the sound quality (accurate reproduction) and no other attributes should be considered (e.g. Not wattage, not feedback, not support, not ease of use, not ergonomics, not cosmetics, not warranty, not ease of service, NOTHING but pure accurate sound quality)
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Conrad Johson Art
I'll kick it off with that one. I'll edit this when I find the summary of the topology.
and yes, I have heard this amp on Nautilus speakers and on the Martin Logan Summit. No , i'm not rich but I've worked at some cool places and had some rich clients. Easily one of the best systems I ever heard.
I'll kick it off with that one. I'll edit this when I find the summary of the topology.
and yes, I have heard this amp on Nautilus speakers and on the Martin Logan Summit. No , i'm not rich but I've worked at some cool places and had some rich clients. Easily one of the best systems I ever heard.
I don't think any tube amps designed in the past 30 yrs are all that ground breaking. Not much new excluding the application of microprocessors to perform house keeping and emergency shut down in the event of a tube or component failure. Solid state regulated supplies and servos as used in many ARC power amps has proved to be a mixed bag.
Fifty plus year old designs like the HK Citation II were ground breaking - this one for its use of multiple feedback loops and fast, high current/high transconductance video pentodes in the front end and phase splitter. I'd cite Marantz for their very studied output transformer design.
Many of today's designers are pretty freaking clueless imo about good electrical/audio engineering practice.
Since I got out of the business of designing tube audio commercially I no longer listen to competitors designs. I did like the Audio Note (Kondo) Ongaku reasonably well.. 😀
Fifty plus year old designs like the HK Citation II were ground breaking - this one for its use of multiple feedback loops and fast, high current/high transconductance video pentodes in the front end and phase splitter. I'd cite Marantz for their very studied output transformer design.
Many of today's designers are pretty freaking clueless imo about good electrical/audio engineering practice.
Since I got out of the business of designing tube audio commercially I no longer listen to competitors designs. I did like the Audio Note (Kondo) Ongaku reasonably well.. 😀
Kevin, i'd like to ask who made OPT's for marantz and are they still in business? ditto harman Kardon....😀
FWIW, the mullard 5-20 topology and variations thereoff are
my go to circuits as far as power amps are concerned...
i like my power supply hefty with generous capacitor filtering...
FWIW, the mullard 5-20 topology and variations thereoff are
my go to circuits as far as power amps are concerned...
i like my power supply hefty with generous capacitor filtering...
Just about anything from David Berning. Screen drive, low distortion class B, digital autobias, synthetic transformers (ZOTL), tube/FET hybrid gain blocks... he was the first there in all those things. And for many of them, he's still the only one there.
Couldn't agree more. That's why I am grateful for guys like you who actually understand real engineering.
😀
Have to agree that Berning is original, and innovative, I have not always liked what I heard, but my exposure to his designs has been extremely limited.
I was lucky to have a few customers who dug what I was doing and in particular my design approach - almost everything I ever made (not destroyed in shipping in recent years) is still in use and appreciated by someone.. lol I value good, conservative engineering and careful builds. I've learned a lot in the decade or so since I quit, some of it reflected in the designs I have shared here. I think for many of my older designs there are better more modern alternatives. (They are 20+ years old after all.)
I believe that the Citation II transformers were in fact made by Heyboer.. I am not sure who made the original Marantz transformers, but in terms of quality they are as unique as the original Partridge. The Marantz 9 is a very nice amplifier as I have mentioned before. Another I admired is the Acrosound 20/20 which has been respun and improved in at least one thread here.
The Mullard 5 - 20 is a sensible well engineered and not too fussy design. It is easily improved with things like fixed bias and a phase splitter using high current / high transconductance triodes that can drive the miller capacitance of a triode based output stage. The Citation V is a good example of how far the basic topology can be taken.
Have to agree that Berning is original, and innovative, I have not always liked what I heard, but my exposure to his designs has been extremely limited.
I was lucky to have a few customers who dug what I was doing and in particular my design approach - almost everything I ever made (not destroyed in shipping in recent years) is still in use and appreciated by someone.. lol I value good, conservative engineering and careful builds. I've learned a lot in the decade or so since I quit, some of it reflected in the designs I have shared here. I think for many of my older designs there are better more modern alternatives. (They are 20+ years old after all.)
I believe that the Citation II transformers were in fact made by Heyboer.. I am not sure who made the original Marantz transformers, but in terms of quality they are as unique as the original Partridge. The Marantz 9 is a very nice amplifier as I have mentioned before. Another I admired is the Acrosound 20/20 which has been respun and improved in at least one thread here.
The Mullard 5 - 20 is a sensible well engineered and not too fussy design. It is easily improved with things like fixed bias and a phase splitter using high current / high transconductance triodes that can drive the miller capacitance of a triode based output stage. The Citation V is a good example of how far the basic topology can be taken.
yes, i have done a Chinese EL34 pp amp using the Russian 6j9(6688) input pentode and 6CG7 long tail phase splitter and i am quite happy with it...
this amp was abused by running the plates at 24watts idle for several months until the new owner got scared of the heat and asked me to back down on bias to something like around 14 watts plate, he can't tell the difference in sound quality any way, and that the marked difference was that the amp now runs cooler...
i have resisted the use of CCS so far, i want to get the feel of how these things sound without it, so that i can have a basis for comparison in the inevitable future when i use them in my amps...
this amp was abused by running the plates at 24watts idle for several months until the new owner got scared of the heat and asked me to back down on bias to something like around 14 watts plate, he can't tell the difference in sound quality any way, and that the marked difference was that the amp now runs cooler...
i have resisted the use of CCS so far, i want to get the feel of how these things sound without it, so that i can have a basis for comparison in the inevitable future when i use them in my amps...
AFAIK, the O/P "iron" in the Cit. 2 was wound by Freed of Brooklyn, NY. Heyboer may be able to replicate those fabulous transformers.
+1
Is that new or really old? Never heard a bad review when coupled with suitable speakers
What about the Lamm-Industries ML3 ?
Its a single ended GM70 with 32Watts.
I dont have it since i´m not really rich but i could hear it at a friend of mine and sounded really great with his Altecs.
Its a single ended GM70 with 32Watts.
I dont have it since i´m not really rich but i could hear it at a friend of mine and sounded really great with his Altecs.
I have to agree with Kevin.
I vote for the Audio Tekne TM 8801 Monoblocks...😀...very retro' design with all transformer coupling. It is quite a challenge to make all those permalloy transformers sound as transparent as these amps do.
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I vote for the Audio Tekne TM 8801 Monoblocks...😀...very retro' design with all transformer coupling. It is quite a challenge to make all those permalloy transformers sound as transparent as these amps do.
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The best valve amplifier I have heard from the last few decades is my modified 5-20. It is also the worst one I have heard, as it is also the only one I have heard. It is a long long time since I went to an audio show and I have never bought a commercial amplifier, so I have no idea (and little interest in) what other amps sound like.
I cannot see the point of this thread. It may arise from confusion about what is meant by 'best'.
I cannot see the point of this thread. It may arise from confusion about what is meant by 'best'.
Damn useless flood of forum.
1) There are no new valves suitable for audio designed since 195x. How do anyone expect design new topology just with a handful of available devices??? Compare this to thousands of transistors and ICs available for solid state audio.
KT120 / KT150 which are advertised as "new" are just reworked KT88 beam tetrodes with larger anode.
2) If we talk about hybrid amps, too, it should have been clearly stated from the beginning, otherwise see #1.
3) What means "best"? Best to whom? To which tastes? By what criteria?
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