First impressions are always based on the physical appraisal of something, and I have to say that I am impressed with the apparent quality and appearance of the product. The packaging is bar none the best I have seen for a 9-pin vacuum tube (see picture). The internal structure is quite different from what we are used to seeing and the execution/construction looks very good and clean. All of the pins were straight on all four tubes I received.
As to comments on the use of the Blackburn label - these are not Mullard reissues! Not even close, they are a very different kind of tube. They are made in England at the Blackburn Microtech factory which used to pump out Mullard tubes way back when. Hence the moniker "Blackburn Legacy Series". Are they trying to ride on the name and fame of old Mullard/Blackburn tubes? Yeah, sure! It doesn't bother me as a marketing ploy because, if you think about it, no-one else would have ever had the insane idea to re-make the vacuum tube at a CRT factory in England in 2009. It's clearly a passion-driven project fueled by the very history of the place - so "Legacy" it is.
There is no doubt that the appeal will be there for NOS tube aficionados as well as guitarists enamored of "that British sound, gov". If it helps Blackburn succeed in this crazy endeavor more power to 'em!
It also strikes me that we have here an attempt to re-make the reality of the vacuum tube without necessarily re-inventing it. I would not be surprised if some of the internal parts are sourced from other product. Again, no sin here if the resources weren't there to start completely from scratch. A wheel is a wheel but a forged magnesium one might perform better than stamped steel...
So there's my introduction.
As to comments on the use of the Blackburn label - these are not Mullard reissues! Not even close, they are a very different kind of tube. They are made in England at the Blackburn Microtech factory which used to pump out Mullard tubes way back when. Hence the moniker "Blackburn Legacy Series". Are they trying to ride on the name and fame of old Mullard/Blackburn tubes? Yeah, sure! It doesn't bother me as a marketing ploy because, if you think about it, no-one else would have ever had the insane idea to re-make the vacuum tube at a CRT factory in England in 2009. It's clearly a passion-driven project fueled by the very history of the place - so "Legacy" it is.
There is no doubt that the appeal will be there for NOS tube aficionados as well as guitarists enamored of "that British sound, gov". If it helps Blackburn succeed in this crazy endeavor more power to 'em!
It also strikes me that we have here an attempt to re-make the reality of the vacuum tube without necessarily re-inventing it. I would not be surprised if some of the internal parts are sourced from other product. Again, no sin here if the resources weren't there to start completely from scratch. A wheel is a wheel but a forged magnesium one might perform better than stamped steel...
So there's my introduction.
Attachments
These go to 11...
As in the order in which I tried them (e813CC - 12AX7 version), let me begin with the most subjective appraisal - my observations of how they performed in my bass guitar amp (Peavey AlphaBass, 3x 12AX7, 1x 12AT7, 6x 6L6GC. All-tube.) I will do my best not to veer off into hyperbole, but electric instrument musical tone can be tough to verbalize.
I first tried replacing one tube at a time, V1, V2, V3 - gain, tone stack, pre-driver respectively), replacing a Mullard, a Raytheon and unknown (GE?). The sonic effect was very similar in all three positions: a fuller sound, plenty of lower mids and a very solid bass sound with clean overtones. I liked the change best in V2 position. Bass players will love these tubes! There was an overall boost in midband richness while actually augmenting the fundamental and a very clear and haze-free sound with clean tone.
I tried overdriving the tubes - and what I heard was a bit cleaner with fewer harmonics. I could still hear the note fundamental quite clearly through the distortion - there seemed to be more headroom overall.
I have to say that by the time I switched out all three 12AX7s I had too much of a good thing. The sound became too clean and fat for my tastes. The Mullard I usually use in the V1 spot has a more chimey response and makes more noise and harmonics when overdriven, which I like. I have never found a better tube for this application than the Mullard, it just has more going on. Like Trout said in the other post about techtubes, V1 in a guitar amp is responsible for defining a lot of the tone in a tube setup, it's the first amplification of the pickup signal. The Mullard just gives me the tone I want.
TechTubes themselves are not recommended for the primary gain device in a guitar amp due to possible unwanted microphony. (read about it here: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=1871110#post1871110 ) From what I gather from my own testing, the TechTube E813CC works best in a secondary or tertiary stage anyway - it almost acts like a supercharger for your tone. The addition of just one of these gave me plenty of extra rich, developed and authoritative tone that seemed to drive the music forward and would have the ability to help one cut through the mix in a live situation. I still preferred a "dirtier" tube in the first gain stage.
All in all I would recommend these primarily for Blues and Jazz players for guitar, and for any bass player using 12AX7 tubes. I am not sure how they would fare for a speed metal demon shredder - they seem less "crunchy" than other tubes. But my final observation was that I was inspired to play longer without getting bored. As a solo bass player in my studio, it's hard to keep myself entertained! But I did sense an inspired/improved understanding of and connection with my instrument, and that can't be made up or imagined too easily!
The "go to 11" suggestion is based on what might happen in a very high gain amp. I sometimes felt that in my bass rig I couldn't drive them quite hard enough to see what they would really do when pushed. Leave that to the guitarists to find out...
As in the order in which I tried them (e813CC - 12AX7 version), let me begin with the most subjective appraisal - my observations of how they performed in my bass guitar amp (Peavey AlphaBass, 3x 12AX7, 1x 12AT7, 6x 6L6GC. All-tube.) I will do my best not to veer off into hyperbole, but electric instrument musical tone can be tough to verbalize.
I first tried replacing one tube at a time, V1, V2, V3 - gain, tone stack, pre-driver respectively), replacing a Mullard, a Raytheon and unknown (GE?). The sonic effect was very similar in all three positions: a fuller sound, plenty of lower mids and a very solid bass sound with clean overtones. I liked the change best in V2 position. Bass players will love these tubes! There was an overall boost in midband richness while actually augmenting the fundamental and a very clear and haze-free sound with clean tone.
I tried overdriving the tubes - and what I heard was a bit cleaner with fewer harmonics. I could still hear the note fundamental quite clearly through the distortion - there seemed to be more headroom overall.
I have to say that by the time I switched out all three 12AX7s I had too much of a good thing. The sound became too clean and fat for my tastes. The Mullard I usually use in the V1 spot has a more chimey response and makes more noise and harmonics when overdriven, which I like. I have never found a better tube for this application than the Mullard, it just has more going on. Like Trout said in the other post about techtubes, V1 in a guitar amp is responsible for defining a lot of the tone in a tube setup, it's the first amplification of the pickup signal. The Mullard just gives me the tone I want.
TechTubes themselves are not recommended for the primary gain device in a guitar amp due to possible unwanted microphony. (read about it here: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=1871110#post1871110 ) From what I gather from my own testing, the TechTube E813CC works best in a secondary or tertiary stage anyway - it almost acts like a supercharger for your tone. The addition of just one of these gave me plenty of extra rich, developed and authoritative tone that seemed to drive the music forward and would have the ability to help one cut through the mix in a live situation. I still preferred a "dirtier" tube in the first gain stage.
All in all I would recommend these primarily for Blues and Jazz players for guitar, and for any bass player using 12AX7 tubes. I am not sure how they would fare for a speed metal demon shredder - they seem less "crunchy" than other tubes. But my final observation was that I was inspired to play longer without getting bored. As a solo bass player in my studio, it's hard to keep myself entertained! But I did sense an inspired/improved understanding of and connection with my instrument, and that can't be made up or imagined too easily!
The "go to 11" suggestion is based on what might happen in a very high gain amp. I sometimes felt that in my bass rig I couldn't drive them quite hard enough to see what they would really do when pushed. Leave that to the guitarists to find out...
Attachments
And now for the real test - HiFi!!!
What I heard in my bass amp did not prepare me for what was next. The first night I put the TechTubes in my preamp I was up until 3am listening. I was captivated by what I was hearing. But I get ahead of myself...
I could perhaps mention that my preamp design does not use 12AX7 or equivalent. The cathode follower output stage is designed around a 12AT7. It is a tube-based CCS arrangement under the follower. A 12AX7 can be used in a pinch but is pretty far from ideal. Unfortunately I was unable to ascertain the working parameters for the tube because the circuitry is shielded in an metal box within the chassis that is hard to get to, and I no longer have the circuit breadboarded. I heard something like clipping at higher volumes suggesting that the Techtubes might be working near cutoff at times. No fault of theirs, this circuit wasn't designed for them.
And yet...
I could scarcely believe the difference in resolution I was hearing. Before I go on like an audio reviewer about this or that, allow me just two brief examples:
- On a female vocal pop recording (CD) which I already knew had multi-tracked vocals, I was sure that her voice had been overdubbed perhaps once or twice. On a certain track, I could now hear FOUR distinct overdubs. The separation was surprising, yet not distracting.
- On recordings of acoustic instruments, piano in particular, the trailing decay of notes was clearly improved and lengthened. Cymbal crashes were appropriately metallic and hashy but with less of a white-noise aspect which many systems impart.
There. I won't torture you all any further with endless descriptions of this or that recording. Suffice to say, I thought I was hearing less distortion (more like IM than harmonic) a clearer rendition of vocals and instruments with better separation, and deep well-defined bass. Actually the bass was a nice surprise esp. given that I did not expect the 12AX7 as a buffer to have much drive.
I would venture that anyone reading this forum should have enough skill to design around this tube and get great results. If it could perform this well (sonically) in an inappropriate circuit, then I really feel confident in recommending it to a diyer.
One more thing - I have been designing audio gear for 10 years now; the process of comparing components and crossovers etc. can be ungratifying a lot of times. The reward is when your favorite piece of music sends shivers up your spine, but it happens rarely. I did get that effect when listening to some well-worn recordings of mine and that feeling always leaves an impression.
What I heard in my bass amp did not prepare me for what was next. The first night I put the TechTubes in my preamp I was up until 3am listening. I was captivated by what I was hearing. But I get ahead of myself...
I could perhaps mention that my preamp design does not use 12AX7 or equivalent. The cathode follower output stage is designed around a 12AT7. It is a tube-based CCS arrangement under the follower. A 12AX7 can be used in a pinch but is pretty far from ideal. Unfortunately I was unable to ascertain the working parameters for the tube because the circuitry is shielded in an metal box within the chassis that is hard to get to, and I no longer have the circuit breadboarded. I heard something like clipping at higher volumes suggesting that the Techtubes might be working near cutoff at times. No fault of theirs, this circuit wasn't designed for them.
And yet...
I could scarcely believe the difference in resolution I was hearing. Before I go on like an audio reviewer about this or that, allow me just two brief examples:
- On a female vocal pop recording (CD) which I already knew had multi-tracked vocals, I was sure that her voice had been overdubbed perhaps once or twice. On a certain track, I could now hear FOUR distinct overdubs. The separation was surprising, yet not distracting.
- On recordings of acoustic instruments, piano in particular, the trailing decay of notes was clearly improved and lengthened. Cymbal crashes were appropriately metallic and hashy but with less of a white-noise aspect which many systems impart.
There. I won't torture you all any further with endless descriptions of this or that recording. Suffice to say, I thought I was hearing less distortion (more like IM than harmonic) a clearer rendition of vocals and instruments with better separation, and deep well-defined bass. Actually the bass was a nice surprise esp. given that I did not expect the 12AX7 as a buffer to have much drive.
I would venture that anyone reading this forum should have enough skill to design around this tube and get great results. If it could perform this well (sonically) in an inappropriate circuit, then I really feel confident in recommending it to a diyer.
One more thing - I have been designing audio gear for 10 years now; the process of comparing components and crossovers etc. can be ungratifying a lot of times. The reward is when your favorite piece of music sends shivers up your spine, but it happens rarely. I did get that effect when listening to some well-worn recordings of mine and that feeling always leaves an impression.
And now for the real REAL test - Phono!
OK, OK... I am just about hearing your accusations by now - "Shill!!!"
I can honestly say that I have no affiliation with or financial interest in Blackburn Microtech. But I am impressed enough to daydream about offering my services as a distributor if they ever got off e-commerce and go retail!!!
So, to keep it more brief and also include a not-insignificant wrinkle, here's the synopsis with two phono stages each using 4x 12AX7s:
My observations were all positive and very much in the same vein as above with my pre. Very resolving sound, top-to-bottom. Excellent clarity and separation of instruments, etc. The thing with phono amplification and eq is how sensitive it can be to changes. For example, I found myself wondering how my MM cartridge was doing with so much less capacitance loading it? It didn't sound bright or harsh. Adding back in some capacitance softened things a bit but was not too significant.
Then my buddy tried the tubes in his phono pre, he is using a MC cartridge and step-up transformers. He had nothing good to say about the tubes! He had nothing bad to say either, but to his ears there were no improvements such as I heard. He felt that the treble sounded rolled-off or closed in. So was there possibly some shift in the equalization? It doesn't take much error in the RIAA curve to be heard, -0.3dB is not a lot until it's across 2-3 octaves. Without the time to do measurements, we just don't know why his results did not match up with mine.
But I can say for sure that the Techtubes seem to have less thermal noise and hiss when compared directly to JJ, Ei and Ge tubes that I have been using. I cranked everything up and the TechTubes were quieter. Once again, with proper design and some diy skills, I still think that these tubes will be able to outperform the traditional variants. I am eager to hear from anyone else who has tried these... in due time.
I want to apologize for the lengthy posts but hope I don't have to. I have been waiting for these tubes to be released for some time and was already excited before I got them. I feel like I have a lot to say! I've had about a week with them and I am just very impressed with how they performed right out of the box and plopped right into any circuit I had on hand to test them. YMMV, as it did with my phono friend - but if nothing else I think diyers stand a good chance to wring out a lot of potential here.
I will try to do the same, with some breadboarding and measurements. If I can stand to take 'em out of my audio system, that is!
OK, OK... I am just about hearing your accusations by now - "Shill!!!"
I can honestly say that I have no affiliation with or financial interest in Blackburn Microtech. But I am impressed enough to daydream about offering my services as a distributor if they ever got off e-commerce and go retail!!!
So, to keep it more brief and also include a not-insignificant wrinkle, here's the synopsis with two phono stages each using 4x 12AX7s:
My observations were all positive and very much in the same vein as above with my pre. Very resolving sound, top-to-bottom. Excellent clarity and separation of instruments, etc. The thing with phono amplification and eq is how sensitive it can be to changes. For example, I found myself wondering how my MM cartridge was doing with so much less capacitance loading it? It didn't sound bright or harsh. Adding back in some capacitance softened things a bit but was not too significant.
Then my buddy tried the tubes in his phono pre, he is using a MC cartridge and step-up transformers. He had nothing good to say about the tubes! He had nothing bad to say either, but to his ears there were no improvements such as I heard. He felt that the treble sounded rolled-off or closed in. So was there possibly some shift in the equalization? It doesn't take much error in the RIAA curve to be heard, -0.3dB is not a lot until it's across 2-3 octaves. Without the time to do measurements, we just don't know why his results did not match up with mine.
But I can say for sure that the Techtubes seem to have less thermal noise and hiss when compared directly to JJ, Ei and Ge tubes that I have been using. I cranked everything up and the TechTubes were quieter. Once again, with proper design and some diy skills, I still think that these tubes will be able to outperform the traditional variants. I am eager to hear from anyone else who has tried these... in due time.
I want to apologize for the lengthy posts but hope I don't have to. I have been waiting for these tubes to be released for some time and was already excited before I got them. I feel like I have a lot to say! I've had about a week with them and I am just very impressed with how they performed right out of the box and plopped right into any circuit I had on hand to test them. YMMV, as it did with my phono friend - but if nothing else I think diyers stand a good chance to wring out a lot of potential here.
I will try to do the same, with some breadboarding and measurements. If I can stand to take 'em out of my audio system, that is!
Hi
I was going to order some tubes from techtubevalves.com just now, and i wasn't aware of the news from 23rd of september:
Historic Blackburn firm in administration (From Lancashire Telegraph)
Anyone know what happened to the brand spankin' new tube production?
Are there any leftovers? Where can i get some leftovers?
I was going to order some tubes from techtubevalves.com just now, and i wasn't aware of the news from 23rd of september:
Historic Blackburn firm in administration (From Lancashire Telegraph)
Anyone know what happened to the brand spankin' new tube production?
Are there any leftovers? Where can i get some leftovers?
New age industrial styling. I bet Chinese 12AX7s measure closer to spec and perform better than those deformed things.
Tim
Tim
These tubes were totally awesome. I have just a few, and I wouldn't part with thme at any price. To the naysayers, skeptics and luddites:
😡
😕
::
🤐
You Lose!!! You Lost!!! And we all lost the last great push (for now) to further vacuum tube technology. I can't believe those who post their opinions without ever having heard... see above, I think you're up there.
😡
😕::🤐
You Lose!!! You Lost!!! And we all lost the last great push (for now) to further vacuum tube technology. I can't believe those who post their opinions without ever having heard... see above, I think you're up there.
That's nothing more than a gratuitous comment... Incidentally it was Captain Stanley Mullard, unless he was knighted..
Those who actually managed to get their hands on some of these tubes seem to think pretty highly of them.. I haven't heard them or measured them so I have no particular opinion about their sound or performance. Comments about microphony was one of my concerns, cost being another.
I think their business plan was way out to lunch - their business model depended on selling a lot of electron guns into the Chinese CRT manufacturing market, and when that fell through so did they. My take was they had way too much overhead to succeed if they did not execute the business plan flawlessly - and who does?
On several other threads I questioned their business plan, pricing strategy, and ability to deliver product. I questioned their marketing, and a number of other assumptions. I rather expected they wouldn't succeed after all 80% of new business ventures fail in less than 5 yrs. (A generalization that seems to hold up fairly well) I hoped I and others expressing these concerns would be proven wrong.
Something like 100 people lost their jobs and the effort and knowledge gained in the experiment has largely been lost. Not a happy outcome for anyone. I am surprised at how delighted some people here are at their having failed.
What did these guys do to deserve such scorn? Have the audicity to manufacture and sell a potentially interesting vacuum tube from the old Mullard Blackburn plant?? (Dude's it's just a building - it's not like they were selling a "Mullard" tube.) It's not like we have a huge choice of suppliers, and a little more diversity wouldn't have hurt.
Unless we are very lucky it will probably be lost, these guys will need jobs and in most cases out of expediency and a need to make a decent living will end up in industries having very little to do with audio or tubes. (valves)
Unfortunately I have some experience in the matter of doing what needs to be done to get by.. You don't always get to do what you are best at or what you want to do.. You follow the money... 🙂
I express no delight at their failure. I too questioned their pricing. I believed I would wait until the product was proven, then cough up the asking price. Too bad for me. I wish I had paid the $80 or whatever it was on the first day. With them gone, such a unique item seems like a bargain. Now it is too late, and I'll assume these tubes cannot be had at any price...
stupid
thanks for that polite quote. i am actually working here to improve A/V products and not stealing things. as for tubes, you should know, there is nothing new under the sky which could be stolen.
thanks for that polite quote. i am actually working here to improve A/V products and not stealing things. as for tubes, you should know, there is nothing new under the sky which could be stolen.
The use of CRT-gun cathode technology to give a better ECC83/12AX7 may not be totally new, but it gave us a low-capacitance version - which is a useful development. It may have also lasted longer & sounded better (I haven't tried them) - I believe we have lost out by not having them around.
I am not saying anyone is stealing anything, but that we are poorer for losiing Techtube.
does anyone think how much it could cost to make a vacuum tube factory to produce quality tubes and compete at the prices out there? also, a lot of knowledge and skills is lost after all these years. I personally regret, we lost all that.
I think this was a "Hail Mary" desperation play by Blackburn. The market for CRTs has dropped to tiny levels, so the market for their main product dried up too. The "business plan" was the equivalent of a life preserver - it depended on the Chinese purchases because there was no one else to sell to. And they inherited the overhead of the much larger operation with no way to shed it (more than likely), especially during difficult economic times.
I question their distribution model a lot! Why did they opt to try to sell the tubes themselves? If they'd have scrounged up some distributors who all bought decent sized inventories of their products it would have given them some working capital that would have been very welcome. Of course, if they failed the distributors would have borne the burden - but if you knew that going in you could have made an intelligent decision to get in or to pass.
This was a classic case - just like the old story about being in the buggy whip business when autos were invented. It was only a matter of time until it failed.
It's too bad too - because the Ei factory has been dark for 3-4 years now and shows no signs of life. Svetlana Electron Devices (the St. Petersburg Russia concern) is behaving like they are on shaky ground - no new product in years, and steadily deteriorating product quality. It seems like they are going to make tubes until the existing machinery simply becomes wears out to the point of being unserviceable - then they'll shut down. That's my OPINION - the evidence to support it is based on only the circumstances I can see.
It's a shame the Blackburn "Hail Mary" fell incomplete.
Would anyone pay $800 for a Mullard EL34?
5 Mullard EL-34s, metal base, Holland, original boxes - eBay (item 320487205829 end time Feb-21-10 14:18:21 PST)
5 Mullard EL-34s, metal base, Holland, original boxes - eBay (item 320487205829 end time Feb-21-10 14:18:21 PST)
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