Wanna do some DIY. What’s a suitable amp board for a couple of 2” compression drivers with big horns? 16ohm 112dB of sensitivity, 200w max. 500-20khz. I mainly look for a low noise floor in combination with low THD and high SNR. I will probably run a max 1 watt through these so power isn’t the biggest challenge, but a headroom would be good I guess.
Any suggestion? Budget around $200 for board and Psu.
Any suggestion? Budget around $200 for board and Psu.
Big PA horns sound ugly nasal distorted but LOUD!!!!!!
And VERY directional.
Acceptably covering wide areas with voice range program (music is tinny and dull at the same time)
To drive them with 1W???
Presumably to listen at home?
What´s the point?
And VERY directional.
Acceptably covering wide areas with voice range program (music is tinny and dull at the same time)
To drive them with 1W???
Presumably to listen at home?
What´s the point?
Looking at amps for compression drivers too. Especially so because I want low gain or a buffer as my active XO (minidsp) has lots of noise I do not want to amplify.
Is this for home use? If so 1W should be plenty incl. headroom.
How much do you want to DIY? On perfboard or a proper PCB. Soldering skills?
You could build a headphone amplifier like this which should be plenty for compression drivers:
Szekeres HPA
I´d go for the version with LM317.
You can bias it at 400mA or so.
Another buffer:
Simple follower by PASS
This one is a pretty nice, cheap and low THD design:
Lineup´s 4W Class-A
A little more complicate?
This one´s with a chip and has even lower THD:
Juma´s composite with Class-A FET-OPS
Oh, and there´s a couple of threads about this topic here already that might be useful.
Is this for home use? If so 1W should be plenty incl. headroom.
How much do you want to DIY? On perfboard or a proper PCB. Soldering skills?
You could build a headphone amplifier like this which should be plenty for compression drivers:
Szekeres HPA
I´d go for the version with LM317.
You can bias it at 400mA or so.
Another buffer:
Simple follower by PASS
This one is a pretty nice, cheap and low THD design:
Lineup´s 4W Class-A
A little more complicate?
This one´s with a chip and has even lower THD:
Juma´s composite with Class-A FET-OPS
Oh, and there´s a couple of threads about this topic here already that might be useful.
I'm not totally agree with you. Big PA horns can sound wonderful if done correctly. I've heard MUCH worse line array stuff which is popular these days.
Anyhow, I'm not doing the ordinary PA stuff anyway. 1W equals 112dB, 2w equals 115db. For my application good enough, I tend to play the horns around 100dB since it's a small rig and for a small venue of max 30ppl. Pretty much home listening, but with high sensitivity and big sound.
The point? Hifi, heard of that? 😀
Big thanks! Semi-home use, but for parties with up to 30ppl. Maximum around 115dB, so it would be nice if I could push 2watts out of the amplifier.
I can make my own PCBs, solder and so on if necessary. But would prefer ready made populated boards if there's any cheap good enough types.
I was looking at TPA6120 chip boards and such. But I'm not sure if it's better or worse than the class A stuff avaliable?
I don't have a specific amp suggestion but I would suggest something class A or AB and also suggest using a horn that is not constant directivity.
Hard to DIY what you can buy for the price. A little incredibly clean amp like the Topping for $350.
But you can probably do very well with any of the tri-path projects. If well done, very clean.
I expect a good class A to actually cost more by the time you do the supply and case. Even the heat sink might sink your budget. An old integrated amp chassis makes it cheaper as you get the transformer, case and heat sinks.
If only a couple of watts, look at something like the Schiit Magi. 2.6 W into 16 Ohms. $99. Not as fun, but heck of a deal! If it does not work for your horns, then it is still one of the best headphone amps out there.
But you can probably do very well with any of the tri-path projects. If well done, very clean.
I expect a good class A to actually cost more by the time you do the supply and case. Even the heat sink might sink your budget. An old integrated amp chassis makes it cheaper as you get the transformer, case and heat sinks.
If only a couple of watts, look at something like the Schiit Magi. 2.6 W into 16 Ohms. $99. Not as fun, but heck of a deal! If it does not work for your horns, then it is still one of the best headphone amps out there.
Half agree, and half disagree on PA systems. A GOOD line array has huge advantages n a small "bad" room over a horn. But a lot of really crappy ones are out there. A lot of really crappy 15 inch/Horn PAs too. A good line array would not be cheap and you won't drive it with a Watt!
I think you should be looking at about 10 W designs for your PA use. Have you considered an old tube amp?6 to 12W was SOP and the transformers often has 16 Ohm taps.
I think you should be looking at about 10 W designs for your PA use. Have you considered an old tube amp?6 to 12W was SOP and the transformers often has 16 Ohm taps.
An average Line Array will DESTROY the very best PA horn any day of the week.
I did, not so sure about you.
You are dragging Sound reproduction back to the 1920´s, for no good reason.
You will get those 115dB between 250 to 2500Hz, if very lucky.
Ir not starting at 500Hz, full of strong resonances, peaks and dips, etc.
You are using the cart to pull the horses.
In any case, talk is cheap, would you care to post the frequency response graph of those wonderful horns?
And a picture of them, so we can marvel at the Technology?
I've looked into the Magni before, it's interesting. Might end up there, thanks! 🙂
Regarding line array VS point source the discussion is since long dead. It's not a matter of this or that since they're not comparable, rather useful for different kind of venues. Very few uses line array at home for example. If I wanted a line array I would have bought that. This question will always be up for debate I guess. But if you haven't figured out that compromises is key when talking about audio you can't get right in a discussion like this.
A line array might crush my horns, yes. But to what extent? In price? Definitely not. In sensitivity? Absolutely not! In presence and looks? Nope. Distortion levels and a super clean frequency response? Probably. Room reflections, weird comb effects and dullness? I think we have a winner, and it's not the line array...
A compression driver and horn might not have the most perfect aspects, but I prefer these compromises compared to a line array. And in the end of the day it's up to that!
Now back to the topic: the amps.
I think you're right. It would be smart to reach about 10 watts to give the amp some headroom, otherwise it will also start to produce noise as well. I'll check into it. Thanks!
There´s quite a few layouts available around here. I made layouts for the amps I quoted above. (partially untested)
A TPA6120 should give enough power with its 700mA output current.
It´s a very low distortion design and if the PCB is good it should work well.
Some PCBs might be specifically for heaphones and neglect good thermal design for the use of speakers.
I made a PCB with 3 parallel LME49600 but don´t know if I ever will try that.
These are quite expensive parts and I´d rather spend the money for the lateral mosfets in Juma´s composite amp.
What I personally don´t like is cheap class-D on tweeters and especially compression drivers.
They sound on the harsh side (the ones I tried at least).
Chipamps can be very good (LM3886,3875,1875, TDA7293 etc.) but these are mostly designs for symmetric supplies and would raise costs that way.
(transformer, power supply and a case will be need if dealing with high AC voltages)
What crossover do you use and what amps do you have available?
Maybe you can DIY or get a class-D amp for your woofers and swap that amp for the tweeter?
Advantage of lots of single-ended class-A amps and class-D amps that you can make use of laptop supplies you might have lying around.
Keeps cost at bay and you could even get around a metal case and get creative.
112dB/4V? midband but what about at 20kHz? you may find you still need a respectable level of voltage swing. I would prioritise low output voltage noise as hiss is annoying. Something like this:
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/composite-amplifier-lm3886-lme49710.334273/
A cheap way to get a case, PSU etc. is to buy a broken amp with the supply voltages you want.
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/composite-amplifier-lm3886-lme49710.334273/
A cheap way to get a case, PSU etc. is to buy a broken amp with the supply voltages you want.
Yes, LM3886 and thereabouts are good options. However, I would recommend only linear amplifiers (no class-D) for HF compression drivers, as their high efficiency advantage is easily irrelevant at low power.
Would this be suitable? Some advantage in solution distorsion? EQ probably needed...
https://www.current-drive.info/projects/low-distortion-amplifier-project
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https://www.current-drive.info/projects/low-distortion-amplifier-project
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Hello,
What pa AMP or class ab amp is recommended these days for compression drivers?
I am using lab gruppen old school amp but looking for something similar for a friend but maybe more affordable...
Shall I forget Sabaj a20a ?
For PA we use a labgruppen 10k and at home I use Yamaha P5000S both are low noise options if you need a lot of output, total overkill for home use.
In my opinion, a nice 50W amplifier with good noise and distortion performance in the 1-10W range is sufficient for indoor PA applications. However, this ballpark is only for the HF compression driver (woofer not included).
Considering that the LF/HF half-way power split is at about 300-350Hz crossover, the max HF power for PA should still be less than 100W for a decently sensitive compression driver.
I mentioned linear amps only because of the power levels involved. Class D would work as well. Also, it may not be necessary to spend a lot of money on shiny finished products with features such as remote control, blue-tooth, wireless etc., as PA is mostly installed sound.
If you want a high M-noise score you need a large amp on the compression driver to cope with the crest factor at high frequencies:
20dB of crest factor is 100x the average power so if your average power is 10W you need a 1kW amp on the compression driver. If you look at Meyer sounds own speakers they incorporate what look to be amplifier modules from Pascall (from panther webpage):
they seem to be using large stereo amplifiers with one operating in bridge mode for the bass drivers and two seperate channels for the two compresion drivers (presumably for variable control of the two drivers in arrray usage). Whether compresion of the high frequencies is important or not is debatable but there seems to be argument for using larger amplifiers than are typicaly thought to be required if you want to avoid clipping.
20dB of crest factor is 100x the average power so if your average power is 10W you need a 1kW amp on the compression driver. If you look at Meyer sounds own speakers they incorporate what look to be amplifier modules from Pascall (from panther webpage):
they seem to be using large stereo amplifiers with one operating in bridge mode for the bass drivers and two seperate channels for the two compresion drivers (presumably for variable control of the two drivers in arrray usage). Whether compresion of the high frequencies is important or not is debatable but there seems to be argument for using larger amplifiers than are typicaly thought to be required if you want to avoid clipping.
Thanks you guys.
It is for home use at average listening volume, let's say a few W on the CD.
I am very found of my lab gruppen lab 300 lab 1000. Ip450 and so on...
I don't know if you guys know the t.amp amps from Thomann...?
Heard some good of Yamaha amps but hard to tell which one to choose and to find it then.
Maybe chevin q6 could be good and offer 4 channels.
It is for home use at average listening volume, let's say a few W on the CD.
I am very found of my lab gruppen lab 300 lab 1000. Ip450 and so on...
I don't know if you guys know the t.amp amps from Thomann...?
Heard some good of Yamaha amps but hard to tell which one to choose and to find it then.
Maybe chevin q6 could be good and offer 4 channels.
For home use you only need a few W. What are you hoping to improve on over the the lab 300? for me personaly the residual output noise with no signal is the most important specification, I would guess the lab 300 is already better than average. This one does pretty well: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/topping-pa5-review-amplifier.28512/ or at higher cost the Benchmark AHB2
The Yamaha amps of interest are the P2500S P3500S P5000S and P7000S. They are low noise enough on 100dB/1W speakers, I haven't tried a directly connected compresion driver. however their prices have risen a lot.
The Yamaha amps of interest are the P2500S P3500S P5000S and P7000S. They are low noise enough on 100dB/1W speakers, I haven't tried a directly connected compresion driver. however their prices have risen a lot.