Hello All,
Can anyone offer suggestions for getting a professional to cut MDF for me?
I have successfully completed a small project using just me and my trusty table saw (http://www.lunenfeld.com/speakers.asp ). HOWEVER, since I rarely have a second pair of hands, I have LOTS of trouble getting good straight cuts on larger MDF pieces. That means lots of wasted MDF and lots of frustration.
I think that I'd rather take the dimensions to a professional and have them cut the panels for me (perfectly!).
Question is: How do I find the right kind of guy? What should I look for in the phone book? And what are the right kind of questions to ask to make sure I get what I want?
Thanks always for your awesome help!
AlphaGeek
Can anyone offer suggestions for getting a professional to cut MDF for me?
I have successfully completed a small project using just me and my trusty table saw (http://www.lunenfeld.com/speakers.asp ). HOWEVER, since I rarely have a second pair of hands, I have LOTS of trouble getting good straight cuts on larger MDF pieces. That means lots of wasted MDF and lots of frustration.
I think that I'd rather take the dimensions to a professional and have them cut the panels for me (perfectly!).
Question is: How do I find the right kind of guy? What should I look for in the phone book? And what are the right kind of questions to ask to make sure I get what I want?
Thanks always for your awesome help!
AlphaGeek
I don't know of anybody who can cut MDF more "perfectly" than me with my table saw. I use a big long angle line piece of metal and clap it at both ends. It creates a perfectly straight and smooth cut. All you have to do is know how long it is from the blade to your angle line.
If you want, all you have to do is cut a few pieces this way and the rest you can cut bigger and trim them with a flush router bit.
Sometimes I still have the dudes at Home Depot cut the pieces for me when I buy MDF there. But other than that I don't know who would cut wood "perfectly" for you. Maybe Norm Abrum that guy on The New Yankee Workshop
he's in New England though.
Your SE-1's are very nice. I would build them for myself for sure, if I didn't already have speakers.
If you want, all you have to do is cut a few pieces this way and the rest you can cut bigger and trim them with a flush router bit.
Sometimes I still have the dudes at Home Depot cut the pieces for me when I buy MDF there. But other than that I don't know who would cut wood "perfectly" for you. Maybe Norm Abrum that guy on The New Yankee Workshop
he's in New England though.Your SE-1's are very nice. I would build them for myself for sure, if I didn't already have speakers.
Thanks for the reply! Can you explain more about the 'angle line'?
When I try to cut a long piece, the weight of the wood as it exits the blade (and goes off the table) tends to pull the piece and chew up the piece as it puts stress against the spinning blade...
When I try to cut a long piece, the weight of the wood as it exits the blade (and goes off the table) tends to pull the piece and chew up the piece as it puts stress against the spinning blade...
alphaGeek said:
Sorry I'm stumped. I read the second sentence about 10 times I'm not sure if your referring to the piece you're cutting off breaking when you get real close to the end and there's only a small ammount of wood holding it on, when cutting long pieces. Use a support for the wood. Or if your reffering to saw dust exitting the blade.
An angle line is a piece of metal shaped like a 90 degree "V." Is better than a piece of straight wood the same length for obvious reasons.
Also don't use the blade that comes with your table saw
, if it came with one. I thought that thing was a joke when I saw it, damn puns, I hate this stupid language. Or is it "seen it"? Anyway, get a nice $10-15 blade with a lot of teeth made for cutting hardwood or MDF.
It's not called "angle line", but "angle iron."
You may not need it though. You have an excellent fence which, if you're careful, is long enough to guide a full 4x8 panel.
What you lack is support for the panel as it's leaving the back of the saw. The ideal solution is a table exactly the height of the saw table. The table should extend 48" or so behind the back of the blade so gravity won't pull the front of the panel up. The surface of the table should be as friction free as possible - plastic laminate is excellent for this. You also need a similar structure to the left of the saw to support the left side of the panel you are cutting.
You may not have room for the ideal set-up though. Available are rollers on stands designed to add support for panel cutting. I don't like these but they are OK.
If you want a sketch of the "ideal" solution, let me know and I will post it.
You may not need it though. You have an excellent fence which, if you're careful, is long enough to guide a full 4x8 panel.
What you lack is support for the panel as it's leaving the back of the saw. The ideal solution is a table exactly the height of the saw table. The table should extend 48" or so behind the back of the blade so gravity won't pull the front of the panel up. The surface of the table should be as friction free as possible - plastic laminate is excellent for this. You also need a similar structure to the left of the saw to support the left side of the panel you are cutting.
You may not have room for the ideal set-up though. Available are rollers on stands designed to add support for panel cutting. I don't like these but they are OK.
If you want a sketch of the "ideal" solution, let me know and I will post it.
Even with a big saw and big outfeed table, it is near impossible to make that first cut on a big sheet of plywood/MDF accurate. What I do is to rough cut it with a circular saw to smaller sizes, then trim down closer on the table saw then, finally, trim again to final size on the table saw. Making the final cut where you are taking off about half the width of the saw blade gives the best results.
As for blades, the more expensive the better. I broke down and spent $100 for a Forrest Woodworker II blade and I am amazed at the quality. The cuts are so good that I often skip the jointer.
As for blades, the more expensive the better. I broke down and spent $100 for a Forrest Woodworker II blade and I am amazed at the quality. The cuts are so good that I often skip the jointer.
I like to buy the 2'x4' sheets of mdf and 13 layer birch plywood from home depot. I haven't had any problems using them, and I haven't had any speaker designs that require larger pieces. They also fit in my car rather well. The prices aren't much more compared to the full sheets.
Another advantage with buying 4 - 2'x4' sheets instead of 1 - 4'x8' sheet is that the 2'x4' have perfect edges to reference when cutting your pieces.
2'x4' mdf sheets are around $5 each at home depot and the plywood ones are around $14 each. They certainly make life easier.
--
Brian
Another advantage with buying 4 - 2'x4' sheets instead of 1 - 4'x8' sheet is that the 2'x4' have perfect edges to reference when cutting your pieces.
2'x4' mdf sheets are around $5 each at home depot and the plywood ones are around $14 each. They certainly make life easier.
--
Brian
Thanks guys.
Bill has described the first half of my problem perfectly. I don't have room for a large outfeed table, and my wife doesn't enjoy 'catching' when I cut big pieces. I guess I could make some collapsable table that I could stow away when done. Any ideas?
The second problem is that the MDF tends to bend back toward the kerf (where the saw just cut) as I feed long pieces. That tends to burn the MDF pretty badly, and often will chew little chunks off of the left side piece (the piece opposite the piece against the fence), leaving me with a wasted piece. I also tend to have trouble keeping long pieces flush with the fence on long cuts, especially toward the cut's finish. Frustrating.
Brian, I've also had success with the 2'x4' MDF at Home Depot and OSH. Great for getting in the car if nothing else.
My next project is also a sub and the reason I asked originally about how to 'outsource' the cutting was because I'm not confident I can get good accurate cuts on the larger pieces required for the sub.
Bill has described the first half of my problem perfectly. I don't have room for a large outfeed table, and my wife doesn't enjoy 'catching' when I cut big pieces. I guess I could make some collapsable table that I could stow away when done. Any ideas?
The second problem is that the MDF tends to bend back toward the kerf (where the saw just cut) as I feed long pieces. That tends to burn the MDF pretty badly, and often will chew little chunks off of the left side piece (the piece opposite the piece against the fence), leaving me with a wasted piece. I also tend to have trouble keeping long pieces flush with the fence on long cuts, especially toward the cut's finish. Frustrating.
Brian, I've also had success with the 2'x4' MDF at Home Depot and OSH. Great for getting in the car if nothing else.
My next project is also a sub and the reason I asked originally about how to 'outsource' the cutting was because I'm not confident I can get good accurate cuts on the larger pieces required for the sub.
I get my big stuff cut at a cabinet maker's shop. He has a laser guided table, and cuts 24 x 48" sheets very accurately into whatever size pieces I want. It's not cheap, but not expensive, and certainly cheaper in time and materials than stuffimh up nice expensive ply.
hit the yellowpages and see who's in your area. I've found for small one off jobs, it's best to drop the materials off, and let them have a couple of days as they make more money doing their normal business, and let them work it into a schedule.
Cheers
hit the yellowpages and see who's in your area. I've found for small one off jobs, it's best to drop the materials off, and let them have a couple of days as they make more money doing their normal business, and let them work it into a schedule.
Cheers
You need one who has something like this:
http://www.holz-technik.de/html/plattensaegevert.html
My local dealer for wood has one. Its the company that delivers wood to all the professional carpenters and handcrafters.
http://www.holz-technik.de/html/plattensaegevert.html
My local dealer for wood has one. Its the company that delivers wood to all the professional carpenters and handcrafters.
So you have a table saw, Alphageek? I understand your problems a little better now.
Don't use it. Just use a hand saw and a long flat piece of metal. You don't even need a table, you can cut it on its side. I don't have a 8' long piece of metal or angle line/iron. I can fit an 4' x 8' piece of wood in my SUV anyway.
It's not hard to do this at all. All you have to know is where to clamp your straight piece of metal. All you have to know is how far away your saw will be from the angle line when your cutting and substract that from your desired length to demine where you clamp the metal.
Example: you want 4 - 40" x 16." Go to Home Depot get them to cut 2 - 4' x 33" pieces go home and trim them up. Lay the 2 pieces ontop of each other clap the angle line at 40' minus 1 and 3/16" (for my saw) = 38 and 13/16" away from one end. I like to cut 2 pieces at once whenever possible, half the work and pieces cannot be more exact in length. One cut you have 2 - 40" x 33" pieces. Repeat for other dimension, until you get your 4 - 40" x 16" pieces. What could be easier?
You can also do this with a router and thin straight bit.
Before I had power tools, when I built sub boxes. I used to use a hand saw to make straight cuts. What a pain in the neck that was.
Don't use it. Just use a hand saw and a long flat piece of metal. You don't even need a table, you can cut it on its side. I don't have a 8' long piece of metal or angle line/iron. I can fit an 4' x 8' piece of wood in my SUV anyway.
It's not hard to do this at all. All you have to know is where to clamp your straight piece of metal. All you have to know is how far away your saw will be from the angle line when your cutting and substract that from your desired length to demine where you clamp the metal.
Example: you want 4 - 40" x 16." Go to Home Depot get them to cut 2 - 4' x 33" pieces go home and trim them up. Lay the 2 pieces ontop of each other clap the angle line at 40' minus 1 and 3/16" (for my saw) = 38 and 13/16" away from one end. I like to cut 2 pieces at once whenever possible, half the work and pieces cannot be more exact in length. One cut you have 2 - 40" x 33" pieces. Repeat for other dimension, until you get your 4 - 40" x 16" pieces. What could be easier?
You can also do this with a router and thin straight bit.Before I had power tools, when I built sub boxes. I used to use a hand saw to make straight cuts. What a pain in the neck that was.
Why not have it cut at shop when you buy it? I usually do this since where I buy my wood (locally owned store) it costs me $0.50 CND a cut and the first five cuts are free. They use a huge wall mounted saw (it's a supercut 1250, simmilar to the one till posted a picture of), and it does a great job, although I refuse to buy my wood at home depot because they have a crap saw to do the cuts with (not even in it's own room, just at the back). If I'm working with smaller pieces of scrap lying around I find a radial arm saw does a great job and it's nearly impossible to make a cut that isn't straight if you're using a properly aligned saw/table.
If i go to the wood selling company, say some nice words to the man at the big saw, tell them what i want to build with the wood etc, and buy a serios amount of wood at one time, they cut it for free. Normaly they want about 0,50Euro each cut and no cut free - but its easyer for them to do some cuts for free than to cut a lttle piece of wood for you and carry all the rest away back in stock. If you try this, be sure to know EXACTLY the size of the pieces you want and make a plan before. They hate if you come and don´t know exactly how to cut the big piece. Be prepared to say the sawman fast and exactly what you want. Here it worked everytime until know, and i was there often.
trim at home....
I either buy smaller sheets and cut at home on a table saw, for my project I bought some 900mm long sheets, then I know that at least one dimension is EXACT and square....
I cut these with the table saw leaving pieces slightly proud 2-3mm each side, then use a trimmer bit on a router to flush them perfectly.
With really big sheets like 2400*1200 etc, they are too big to push across a little table saw, so I get the shop to slice it up with their large wall saw, don't expect accurate cuts, my last project the nimrod missed his own mark by about 7mm - have them cut wider and trim at home as above.... working for me currently....
I either buy smaller sheets and cut at home on a table saw, for my project I bought some 900mm long sheets, then I know that at least one dimension is EXACT and square....
I cut these with the table saw leaving pieces slightly proud 2-3mm each side, then use a trimmer bit on a router to flush them perfectly.
With really big sheets like 2400*1200 etc, they are too big to push across a little table saw, so I get the shop to slice it up with their large wall saw, don't expect accurate cuts, my last project the nimrod missed his own mark by about 7mm - have them cut wider and trim at home as above.... working for me currently....
alphaGeek said:
You could make a knock down outfeed table TOP using 2x4's and MDF. 2x4's, carriage bolts, washers and wing nuts would be fine for removeable legs.
Assuming that your fence is properly aligned, the other problem you describe is probably poor feeding technique. Most right handed people would tend to feed mainly with their right hand placed on a line somewhere between the blade and the fence. This is not correct. The major feed force should be with the left hand placed on a line to the left of the blade. Properly done, this not only pushes the work into the blade but also pushes the work against the fence. Need I say that you should avoid making cuts using the fence when the width of the piece is more than 1.5x the length, give or take.
A very simple and accurate way to cut pannels.Tools required, skill saw, router with a formica bit and a straight edge.Rough cut your panels to with a 1/4 inch of there final size.Using a straight edge, router with formica bit, trim your panels square.once you have a panel sized, you can use this panel to size as many panels as you will need.This method may take longer,but when your working with limited tools and space it will yield an accurate product.Chris.
I second the recommendation to visit cabinetmakers in your area and find one that will work with you at a reasonable price. If you give them exact dimensions of all the pieces, they can cut them out much faster than you could so the labor charge should be minimal. And they can do a MUCH more accurate job than the guys at most stores (better equipment and more skill.) They can give you a good price on the materials too as they buy in bulk and always have scraps left over from their bigger projects. Just give them the cut list and ask for a labor and materials price. You may find that it's not much (if any) more than buying the materials at retail. The main thing is to have your list prepared when you approach them and ask for a price. If there is any uncertainty about what they have to do, they will have to fudge the price on the high side to cover the inevitable wasted time they spend dealing with "dumb" customers. 😉
Regards,
Dennis (cabinet shop owner for a time in my youth)
Regards,
Dennis (cabinet shop owner for a time in my youth)
Well, if you want straight cuts... go back to school.. 🙂 they have all the equipment you need to cut up large pieces of wood.. 😀
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