Sorry if this as been asked and answered a ton of times -- searching is not revealing much. I am looking for a driver for a pair of open baffle speakers. I would prefer new production, something I can get at Madisound or PE, and if I can keep the price under $100 per driver that would be ideal. I am not planning to use seperate subs, so bass response should be decent. I am, however, willing to add an extra tweeter, so suggestions there are also appreciated.
My amps are 300B based (about 7 watts), but I don't listen to music loudly, so efficient is good, but super efficient is not necessary.
Thanks,
-d
My amps are 300B based (about 7 watts), but I don't listen to music loudly, so efficient is good, but super efficient is not necessary.
Thanks,
-d
a couple of suggestions....
consider one of these:
beta 10cx
Vas is big enough, I think. It's a coax from Emminence, $70 each (not sure if you must buy a cross over..)
and please build the JE Labs baffle, it creates an incredible amount of bass.
JE Labs open baffle
I did put a full width "top" on it and a full width "back brace" near the floor as well.
consider one of these:
beta 10cx
Vas is big enough, I think. It's a coax from Emminence, $70 each (not sure if you must buy a cross over..)
and please build the JE Labs baffle, it creates an incredible amount of bass.
JE Labs open baffle
I did put a full width "top" on it and a full width "back brace" near the floor as well.
You might consider the Silver Iris.
http://www.hawthorneaudio.com/drivers.htm
I have not heard them, I have no relationship with the dealer, but I have read some very positive comments on other forums. Having just completed an OB project, I like the idea of a 15 inch driver. They are very tempting (my wife is going to kill me) and not that far outside your budget.
Hope that helps,
http://www.hawthorneaudio.com/drivers.htm
I have not heard them, I have no relationship with the dealer, but I have read some very positive comments on other forums. Having just completed an OB project, I like the idea of a 15 inch driver. They are very tempting (my wife is going to kill me) and not that far outside your budget.
Hope that helps,
The silver iris may, in fact, be a good choice. I've purchased a pair, but I haven't found the time to get them up and running yet. I specifically chose them for their high Qts (0.91, I believe) suitable for an OB.
Other candidates that I considered (and may be better for all I know) include the CSS FR125 and the Visaton B200. But, the silver iris should have better bass response, possibly at the expense of midrange accuracy and detail.
You might also want to check out the driver discussed in this thread:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=73867
Good luck.
Paul Ebert
Other candidates that I considered (and may be better for all I know) include the CSS FR125 and the Visaton B200. But, the silver iris should have better bass response, possibly at the expense of midrange accuracy and detail.
You might also want to check out the driver discussed in this thread:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=73867
Good luck.
Paul Ebert
Re: a couple of suggestions....
I'm pretty sure this price does not include tweeter or crossover. Adding those will put it pretty close to the introductory price of the Silver Iris. Depends on if you prefer a 10" or a 15", though the Silver Iris is designed for OB.
Thanks for pointing this out. I may give it a try. Certainly looks easy enough and is an acceptable size.
Paul Ebert
Nanook said:
I'm pretty sure this price does not include tweeter or crossover. Adding those will put it pretty close to the introductory price of the Silver Iris. Depends on if you prefer a 10" or a 15", though the Silver Iris is designed for OB.
Thanks for pointing this out. I may give it a try. Certainly looks easy enough and is an acceptable size.
Paul Ebert
thanx for the info, Mr. Ebert..
and the clarrification. Like I said I was not sure if additional stuff was needed.
In my case I used a pair of Oxford J12s, + a tweeter from an old set of Missions, xover from an old set of Wharfedales.
yes the Silver Iris seems like it may offer a better "deal". It sure looks like an Emminence (perhaps made for Hawthorne or modified?)
and the clarrification. Like I said I was not sure if additional stuff was needed.
In my case I used a pair of Oxford J12s, + a tweeter from an old set of Missions, xover from an old set of Wharfedales.
yes the Silver Iris seems like it may offer a better "deal". It sure looks like an Emminence (perhaps made for Hawthorne or modified?)
Beyma 8AG/N
Last weekend I have heared the Beyma 8AG/N, a 8" Fullrangedriver, in an open baffle, no xover, no notchfilters - sounded really nice - and it's quite unexpensive, at least here in europe.
LC
Last weekend I have heared the Beyma 8AG/N, a 8" Fullrangedriver, in an open baffle, no xover, no notchfilters - sounded really nice - and it's quite unexpensive, at least here in europe.
LC
Re: thanx for the info, Mr. Ebert..
The silver iris is a version of the Beta 15CX custom made by Eminence for Hawthorne. The standard Beta 15CX has been discontinued. The tweeter is also made by Eminence. The crossover was made by another party and is, presumably, better quality than what Eminence usually sells. Hawthorne may modify these prior to selling them (I don't know). My impression is that they are quite well made, in a sort of 'professional driver' way. That is to say, they don't have the 'coolness factor' that a Seas Excel or Accuton or a Fostex Sigma series driver might have, but they look good in their own way.
I'm hoping to get a baffle made next weekend.
dsavitsk, can you give us a bit more information? How low would you like the system to go and how big a baffle are you willing to consider? Those two parameters are the basic tradeoff with an OB.
Paul
Nanook said:
The silver iris is a version of the Beta 15CX custom made by Eminence for Hawthorne. The standard Beta 15CX has been discontinued. The tweeter is also made by Eminence. The crossover was made by another party and is, presumably, better quality than what Eminence usually sells. Hawthorne may modify these prior to selling them (I don't know). My impression is that they are quite well made, in a sort of 'professional driver' way. That is to say, they don't have the 'coolness factor' that a Seas Excel or Accuton or a Fostex Sigma series driver might have, but they look good in their own way.
I'm hoping to get a baffle made next weekend.
dsavitsk, can you give us a bit more information? How low would you like the system to go and how big a baffle are you willing to consider? Those two parameters are the basic tradeoff with an OB.
Paul
Re: Re: thanx for the info, Mr. Ebert..
Thanks for all of the suggestions. Sometimes it just takes a few suggestions to figure out what to search for to start the learning process.
A comment on budget: It is not a hard limit. I just wanted to express that people could suggest things above $40, but that I was not looking to invest $1000 in a speaker system. I am not going to quibble over a few dollars, so everything mentioned so far is perfectly reasonable.
Well, I don't listen to church organs or classical, so the lowest notes I need reproduced are those from a bass guitar. My current speakers (an older set of B&Ws) claim to reach something like 48Hz which has always been enough. Lower is better, but if I hit 42-45Hz I am sure I'll be happy. My landlord's bedroom is directly below my stereo, so discretion is in order. Also, I like punchy round bass more than deep bass (which probably seems odd from someone with 300b amps, but they are punchy.)
For baffle size, I figured I'd go with the 31.5"x35.5" from the JE lab site until I knew to do something different. I am open o suggestions, but also don't want 6 feet of plywood in the living room.
I have seen comments on other sites about the B200 driver that Paul mentioned, and people seeming to really like it. Any thoughts? It is not clear if they are using tweeters, or of they are just using a single driver. Also, I can't seem to find a source for the CSS FR125 to check prices/availability.
-d
Thanks for all of the suggestions. Sometimes it just takes a few suggestions to figure out what to search for to start the learning process.
A comment on budget: It is not a hard limit. I just wanted to express that people could suggest things above $40, but that I was not looking to invest $1000 in a speaker system. I am not going to quibble over a few dollars, so everything mentioned so far is perfectly reasonable.
Paul Ebert said:
Well, I don't listen to church organs or classical, so the lowest notes I need reproduced are those from a bass guitar. My current speakers (an older set of B&Ws) claim to reach something like 48Hz which has always been enough. Lower is better, but if I hit 42-45Hz I am sure I'll be happy. My landlord's bedroom is directly below my stereo, so discretion is in order. Also, I like punchy round bass more than deep bass (which probably seems odd from someone with 300b amps, but they are punchy.)
For baffle size, I figured I'd go with the 31.5"x35.5" from the JE lab site until I knew to do something different. I am open o suggestions, but also don't want 6 feet of plywood in the living room.
I have seen comments on other sites about the B200 driver that Paul mentioned, and people seeming to really like it. Any thoughts? It is not clear if they are using tweeters, or of they are just using a single driver. Also, I can't seem to find a source for the CSS FR125 to check prices/availability.
-d
So it looks like the FR125 really needs a sub, the B200 really needs a tweeter, and the silver iris already has a built-in tweeter, but the midrange is suspect. Part of me says that a sub is a more drastic and expensive thing to need, but it is also easier to live without for a while than a tweeter. I also have a large enough stack of built solid state amps (gainclones and digital amps, etc.) that a sub might not be that difficult to add -- I am going to regret that last thought.
I must say, my strongest temptation is to try the FR125, see if I like the concept, and if I do, then figure out whether I want to switch to more expensive drivers, more expensive drivers + a tweeter, or adding a sub. My second instinct is the B200 as 18000 isn't so bad.
Am I correct to think that the FR125 can simply be connected to the speaker terminals on the amps with no crossover or circuitry at all? That seems very exciting.
With the B200, if I added a tweeter, I assume I would need a crossover, or would it be possible to connect the B200 directly and only add a filter for the tweeter?
I must say, my strongest temptation is to try the FR125, see if I like the concept, and if I do, then figure out whether I want to switch to more expensive drivers, more expensive drivers + a tweeter, or adding a sub. My second instinct is the B200 as 18000 isn't so bad.
Am I correct to think that the FR125 can simply be connected to the speaker terminals on the amps with no crossover or circuitry at all? That seems very exciting.
With the B200, if I added a tweeter, I assume I would need a crossover, or would it be possible to connect the B200 directly and only add a filter for the tweeter?
I have a new pair breaking in right now. I put them in some 15"x19" TV dinner tables I picked up at a yard sale for 3 bucks. Hooked straight to the reciever in open baffle.
Yes, they'll need at least a helper woofer in open baffle. As for the highs, I don't think I'll be looking for a tweeter any time soon. To me they go up fairly high, and clear.
I hooked up a Boston PV-400 7" subwoofer this morning. For my small rooms I think that is as big as I need and as far down as I need to go.
Now my struggle is whether or not to go with another powered sub or to find a pair of complimentary 8 or 10" woofers and make a 2-way with the FR's. Cutting the FR's off at say 120Hz should help them out a bit. They really throw on the low stuff.
Just my 2 cents, dsavitsk.
Anyone have any druthers on which way to go for a helper woofer?
R/
Jim
Yes, they'll need at least a helper woofer in open baffle. As for the highs, I don't think I'll be looking for a tweeter any time soon. To me they go up fairly high, and clear.
I hooked up a Boston PV-400 7" subwoofer this morning. For my small rooms I think that is as big as I need and as far down as I need to go.
Now my struggle is whether or not to go with another powered sub or to find a pair of complimentary 8 or 10" woofers and make a 2-way with the FR's. Cutting the FR's off at say 120Hz should help them out a bit. They really throw on the low stuff.
Just my 2 cents, dsavitsk.
Anyone have any druthers on which way to go for a helper woofer?
R/
Jim
Just a thought; a boxed subwoofer is an omnidirectional source. It's as good at annoying your landlord as it is at generating bass in your room. An open baffle is a directional source and if you can get it to produce adequate bass in-room it probably produces less annoyance out-of-room. Perhaps it's time to consider some nice efficient 15" drivers with fs of 40Hz and Qts of about 0.7?
8 watts is not enough for the FR125. Check the sensitivity. The B200 sounds fine without a tweeter. I have them in an aperiodic cabinet(Omega).If you do miss the top 1/2 octave, above 15k, you could always add a 'helper' tweeter or your choice with a simple 1st order cap.
The B200 is a good driver, but should be rated at 90dB, since HF correction is necessary. Ciare CH250 and Supravox 215 sig.bic. are also interesting. But with that baffle size (unfolded) I would use the Omnes Audio L8 plus sub.
So, collectlvely we've arrived at the situation I was in prior to my purchase of the Iris. It seems there is no single FR driver ideal for an OB application. I guess that shouldn't be too surprising. It's asking an awful lot of a driver. The supravox probably comes closest, but is rather expensive.
I had almost settled on the B200, but in the end the response shelf around 1K just seemed like it would be a problem. Some say it is and others say it is not.
I'm hoping that the midrange on the Iris is satisfactory, at least. If I find it is not, I plan to look for a midrange driver (to be used in conjunction with the woofer and tweeter of the Iris). But then I'm back to the drawing board as I'd like the midrange driver in that case to cover as much of the frequency range as possible.
BTW, others are using the Iris and seem content with its midrange, so please keep my reservation in perspective. I have yet to hear them.
Paul
I had almost settled on the B200, but in the end the response shelf around 1K just seemed like it would be a problem. Some say it is and others say it is not.
I'm hoping that the midrange on the Iris is satisfactory, at least. If I find it is not, I plan to look for a midrange driver (to be used in conjunction with the woofer and tweeter of the Iris). But then I'm back to the drawing board as I'd like the midrange driver in that case to cover as much of the frequency range as possible.
BTW, others are using the Iris and seem content with its midrange, so please keep my reservation in perspective. I have yet to hear them.
Paul
Don't put any stock into graphs / specifications. Let your ears decide for you. From my own experience the B200 doesn't need a stink'n tweeter. They are the real deal.
I think the biggest problem when trying to decide on fullrange drivers is forgetting to reflect on what you're used to.
I only had 2 sets of speakers as reference before I got into DIY, 4 RS Minimus 7's and a pair of Boston CR8's. The Minimus' are small driver 85-86db speakers but I really didn't live with them for long periods. The CR8's have 7" woofers in them and are 88-89db. I used them for about 5yrs before getting into DIY and OB with old console pull drivers. Now the older drivers are probably 94-95db and I use an 8" and a 12". In OB they are louder and make the same bass as the CR8's
I really like the sound of my new FR125S's but, I have to admit they don't fill a room like my 89db CR8's or my old driver NoBox's. 4" and 86db can only fill so much space. I'm used to 1/4 to 1/3 volume being enough to feel with the CR8's and down right loud with the NoBox's. The FR's can't do that in larger rooms. In OB they fit nicely in my 9.5'x11' study but are struggling in my 11'x14' living room. Oh the tone is there, but not the tactile presence. That's why I'm already looking for a bass augmentor for them. Bass is more of an issue for me than the top 2-3k up to 20K.
I'd say if you are used to larger drivers then I recommend you stay with similar sized fullrangers. In hindsight I'm sure the 8" B200 would have fit my bill better than the 4" FR125S, but now I own them and am looking forward to making good use of them. I'll get some B200's in the future and probably some Iris's too, one toy a year requires no justification.
R/
Jim
I only had 2 sets of speakers as reference before I got into DIY, 4 RS Minimus 7's and a pair of Boston CR8's. The Minimus' are small driver 85-86db speakers but I really didn't live with them for long periods. The CR8's have 7" woofers in them and are 88-89db. I used them for about 5yrs before getting into DIY and OB with old console pull drivers. Now the older drivers are probably 94-95db and I use an 8" and a 12". In OB they are louder and make the same bass as the CR8's
I really like the sound of my new FR125S's but, I have to admit they don't fill a room like my 89db CR8's or my old driver NoBox's. 4" and 86db can only fill so much space. I'm used to 1/4 to 1/3 volume being enough to feel with the CR8's and down right loud with the NoBox's. The FR's can't do that in larger rooms. In OB they fit nicely in my 9.5'x11' study but are struggling in my 11'x14' living room. Oh the tone is there, but not the tactile presence. That's why I'm already looking for a bass augmentor for them. Bass is more of an issue for me than the top 2-3k up to 20K.
I'd say if you are used to larger drivers then I recommend you stay with similar sized fullrangers. In hindsight I'm sure the 8" B200 would have fit my bill better than the 4" FR125S, but now I own them and am looking forward to making good use of them. I'll get some B200's in the future and probably some Iris's too, one toy a year requires no justification.
R/
Jim
B200, etc for open baffle.
Ask Planet10 and company......
someplace I think he indicated he has used the B200 in an open baffle and was pretty pleased. I think also DecibelDungeon in the uk tried B200 in an open baffle and enjoyed them
Decibel Dungeon loudspeaker page
It's getting to the point that perhaps an open baffle section should be generated, Planet10, how bout it?
EC8010... ya the OB can play very loud and don't "shake the room". Just quick, "overdampened" bass. (maybe not, but it is so quick there is no real bass "sustain" )
Ask Planet10 and company......
someplace I think he indicated he has used the B200 in an open baffle and was pretty pleased. I think also DecibelDungeon in the uk tried B200 in an open baffle and enjoyed them
Decibel Dungeon loudspeaker page
It's getting to the point that perhaps an open baffle section should be generated, Planet10, how bout it?
EC8010... ya the OB can play very loud and don't "shake the room". Just quick, "overdampened" bass. (maybe not, but it is so quick there is no real bass "sustain" )
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