Speaker Kit, Need help with a decision

[chilly0013]

Hi All,

So, I would like to build a set of 2-way, or 3-way stand speakers, and I have been looking around for existing builds, or kits, with and without cabinets. I am a total newbie to speaker building and feel an existing proven design would better serve me, than to try and figure out drivers, cabinet enclosure, and crossover design.

My budget is $500-$700 for everything, cabinets etc. I do not have room for large floor standers, or Open baffles, and I already have nice stands.

My listening preference is almost everything from Martin Denny, to jazz, to modest mouse, and everything in between.

Below are some kits, or designs that I like, and I would love some more expert advice on quality, and sound. Also below that is my current system.

The Zaph Audio SR71
Zaph|Audio SR71 Kit - Pair - Parts Only

The Seas Idunn
Seas Idunn 2-Way Speaker Kit - Pair - Parts Only

The Seas Mimir
Seas Mimir 2-Way Speaker Kit - Pair - Parts Only

The MTA (but I worry about the high frequency rolloff)
MTA | Parts Express Project Gallery

The Diamond Sparkle
Diamond Sparkle | Parts Express Project Gallery


My system:

Technics SL-10
Jolida 202a integrated amp 40watt
Chario Hiper 1 mk2
BagEnd infra sub-18

I would love to hear all of your thoughts, I have never built speakers, But have built 4 Headphone amps (3 tube amps), so I have some skill. 🙂

Thanks
-kev

 

[Wayne1]

Take a look at GR Research

GR Research X-LS Encore

 

[LineSource]

Decision 1: how important is powerful deep bass? 45Hz @ 0.75cuft or 37Hz @1.5cuft or 28Hz @2.5cuft volume

2-way stand mount designs typically use 0.5 - 0.75cuft cabinets with -F3~45Hz and a midwoofer which covers 45Hz - 1.8kHz like the ZR71

For your price range, you can get a good 8" woofer which performs well in 1.5cuft - 2.5cuft volumes.
For a small room a 3-way design using 1" + 5" + 8" in either a 1.5cuft stand mount, or 2.5cuft floor stander is popular.
A separate 5" midrange offers greater detail presentation than a 6"-7" midwoofer used in a 2-way
A floorstander cabinet for -F3=28Hz will use the same floor space as your stand with a -F3=39Hz cabinet.

SB_Acoustics Drivers offer a high performance/cost.
8" SB23NRXS45-8 woofer $94 (-F3=28Hz in 2.5cuft, -F3=39Hz in 1.5cuft)
5" SB15MFC30-8 midbass $54
0.75" SB21RDC-4 dome tweeter $33
Total $181 for drivers
$70 for crossover = $250/speaker for parts - just add wood

SBAcoustics 3-Way Classic Troels Gravesen 1.5cuft stand mount
SBAcoustics-3WC

 

[Cal Weldon]

I believe the OP shows an 18" sub among his gear.

 

[PKI]

Kairos. End of discussion.

 

[LineSource]

With an 18" subwoofer, you must look over a few 2-way designs using the Satori MW16P-8 midwoofer($148) with the SB_Acoustics SB29RDC-4($53) dome tweeter which use a cabinet you like.

The SB29RDC-4 tweeter measures almost identical to the $80 more expensive Satori TW29R-4 tweeter.

One Example: SB_Acoustics ARA kit, but using the lower cost(almost identical) SB29RDC-4 dome tweeter
SB Acoustics :: Ara - Satori Kit

Another Example: Kalasan in diyAudio, but using the lower cost(almost identical) SB29RDC-4 dome tweeter
Satori MW16P-4

You can construct a modest 0.75cuft cabinet with a port which can be used with a 60-80Hz subwoofer, or can be plugged for improved transients with a 100-150Hz woofer.

 

[DiscoJones]

The Criton 1TD kit at CSS is $580/pair including a nice flatpack and SmartNode crossover board to help first time builders tackle crossover assembly. It also comes with all the ports, wires, screws etc so there's no need to buy the usual odds and ends. It uses super low distortion drivers and sounds very good. My personal favorite is the P215 for a couple bucks less if you're looking for something smaller, but I think the Criton is the better value.

Creative Sound Solutions | High End Speakers and Speaker Kits | SHOP

 

[LineSource]

With an 18" subwoofer, you must look over a few 2-way designs using the Satori MW16P-8 midwoofer($148) with the SB_Acoustics SB29RDC-4($53) dome tweeter which use a cabinet you like. The $53 SB29RDC-4 tweeter measures almost identical to the $130 Satori TW29R-4 tweeter.

Audioexpress review of the Satori ARA speaker with some construction photos and measurements. The cabinet shape helps near rear wall placements with modest toe-in.

http://www.audioxpress.com/files/attachment/2645
=========
Joachim Gerhard final Satori Kalasan crossover 5.0 circuits from the Kalasan diyAudio thread. # 700

SB Acoustics Satori Monitor

measurements post# 699
crossover circuits post# 700
photos post# 801 762 746
There are two common cabinets with slanted baffles for time and phase alignment: box with 6-degree slanted baffle; pyramid shape with slanted baffle.
Google 'MW16P crossover' to find other designs and positive reviews.

 

[LineSource]

I believe the OP shows an 18" sub among his gear.

DOH!
On first read, I missed the OP's 18" subwoofer.
============
There are benefits to building a pair of high quality 3-ways with -F3=30Hz to generate an optimal stereo soundstage, and locating one subwoofer where it both smooths bass room modes and generates mono 20-40Hz deep bass.

Have you researched the soundstage improvement in maintaining stereo woofers in your room to 40Hz?

1) Stereo bass down to 20Hz has been produced in low distortion, high SPL since 1982 on CDs, DVD-As, SACDs, and 5.1 movies.
2) Most people with normal hearing can identify the difference between stereo vs. mono bass. Stereo bass has phase for location.
3) At frequencies below 80Hz most people with normal hearing cannot isolate the physical location of the woofer.
-----Expert listeners can isolate location of woofers down to 60Hz by focusing on impact harmonics, port noise, upper harmonic distortion.
4) Not being able to locate the subwoofer is a good cost simplification, but summing low bass into mono degrades true stereo recordings.
5) With stereo woofers and stereo subwoofers, any out-of-phase bass information in a true stereo (acoustic) recording is reproduced properly at full level, adding immensely to the perceived width and depth of the room in which the recording was made.

 

[jtgofish]

With the Jolida amp you need something with a highish sensitivity and 8 ohms not 4.
The vast majority of two ways using say a 6 or 7 inch driver will not get the best out of your amp.
I would be looking at some of the Dynaco A25 type designs .Maybe the SEAS A26 kit but with a much cheaper tweeter option .

 

[wolf_teeth]

Of the "designs" you posted, the last 2 will not be up to par. They are haphazardly done with either off the shelf xovers, or a design that is sub-optimal. On the last one, the tweeter is NLA anyway.

There are a plethora of designs available nowadays, so make sure you search for awhile. IMO, anything from Jeff B, Scott Sehlin, Paul Carmody, myself, CJD, Jed Kunz, Jon Marsh, Dan Neubecker, Curt Campbell, and Jaochim Gerhard; should be considered. There are of course more than this list that are worth their salt.

Happy hunting,
Wolf

 

[chilly0013]

Hey All,

Thanks for all of this. Luckily I am in no hurry, and google search my way around all of this. I am not opposed to a nice 3-way even floor standing... If I do that then I would have to get a different SUB, or not use one at all... and I am ok with that... I think... I KNOW I would prefer a "stereo" sub, and not the single I have now.

I'm sure I will have more questions soon when I look into all of this more.

Thanks

 

[LineSource]

Consider: Spend the entire budget on a stereo pair of 30Hz - 20kHz 3-way speakers. Get wood shop help to construct an Avalon style low diffraction cabinet. (construction examples on web)
Research and experiment placing your one subwoofer in the corner, or 1/3 along the long wall.

1" + 5" + 8" woofer(ported -F3 ~30Hz)
0.75" SB21RDC-4 dome tweeter $33
5" SB15MFC30-8 midbass $54
8" SB23NRXS45-8 woofer $94 (-F3=28Hz in 2.5cuft, -F3=39Hz in 1.5cuft)

1" + 6.5" + 12" woofer (sealed -F3 ~32Hz)
1" SB29RDC-4 $52
6.5" MW16P-8 $148
12" SB34NRX75-6 $174

Low-Frequency Optimization Using Multiple Subwoofers*
TODD WELTI AND ALLAN DEVANTIER

 

[TCDave]

I built a pair of Jeff Bagby’s Doceres from meniscus last winter and I’m really happy with them.

Docere Full Kit (Pair) - Meniscus Audio

 

[ernperkins]

Pet the OP: " I do not have room for large floor standers". These are excellent speakers, but it doesn't matter a whit if he doesn't have room.
One solution does not fit all.

Consider: Spend the entire budget on a stereo pair of 30Hz - 20kHz 3-way speakers. Get wood shop help to construct an Avalon style low diffraction cabinet. (construction examples on web)
Research and experiment placing your one subwoofer in the corner, or 1/3 along the long wall.

1" + 5" + 8" woofer(ported -F3 ~30Hz)
0.75" SB21RDC-4 dome tweeter $33
5" SB15MFC30-8 midbass $54
8" SB23NRXS45-8 woofer $94 (-F3=28Hz in 2.5cuft, -F3=39Hz in 1.5cuft)

1" + 6.5" + 12" woofer (sealed -F3 ~32Hz)
1" SB29RDC-4 $52
6.5" MW16P-8 $148
12" SB34NRX75-6 $174

Low-Frequency Optimization Using Multiple Subwoofers*
TODD WELTI AND ALLAN DEVANTIER

 

[KaffiMann]

... What about just using an Faital 10FE200 + 3FE25?
It's not such a crazy solution. He already has the bass solution there, just needs a bit to get more "life" up top probably. Just chuck it in a sealed box of tolerable size, the 10" has a little bit more gain, but that just helps the "fun grin" activation process.

Would probably work without filters, but just a basic 180hz 2nd order hp for the 3" and a 900-1100hz 2nd order LP filter (I like Bessel myself) for the 10" would be a good solution for increased power handling + reduced lobing up top, and cause few to none phase variations in the frequency spectrum.

 

[LineSource]

SB Acoustics 3 ways
SB Acoustics 3 ways

This thread covers popular TMWW topology build using two 8" woofers for great bass in a narrow baffle. Sony SS-AR1 $22k speaker uses a similar TMWW for smooth deep bass, and a speaker which sounds great in many different size & shape rooms.

SB_Acoustics Drivers offer a high performance/cost.
two 8" SB23NRXS45-8 woofers @ $94
6.5" SB17NRXC35-8 midbass $54
1" SB29RDC-4 dome tweeter $53
Total $295 for drivers

SB also offers a poly-plastic cone 6.5" midrange SB17MFXC35-8 which has reduced cone breakup. Some listeners favor this smooth sound over a hard paper cone.