I've been reading up on different things to consider when designing a set of large towers from scratch. I've read all the stickies, I've used the search, I've googled terms I haven't seen before, and now I just want to make sure I know of all the variables/concerns/etc before I start down a design path that has flaws.
Here is a list of things I'm taking into consideration before buying anything/finalizing any plans. Please comment with your additions so that I and others can know what to look into:
Here is a list of things I'm taking into consideration before buying anything/finalizing any plans. Please comment with your additions so that I and others can know what to look into:
- Baffle step
- Edge diffraction
- Phase alignment/Time alignment
- Comb filtering
- Driver sensitivity matching/padding
- Polar response/Lobbing/Lobing/directivity
- Beaming
- Cone breakup
- Cabinet construction/bracing & resonance problems
- Impedance/ohms (total and per driver)
- Crossover types (orders, L-R, etc)
- Box type (sealed, ported, open baffle etc)
- Port tuning & air speed if using ported box
- Power handling (of drivers and crossover) & desired SPL
- Driver distortion of selected drivers (linear and non-linear)
- Cone excursion of selected drivers
- Form vs Function (Looks vs sound quality)
- Cost and build time concerns
- Consider listening room size/acoustics/listening position
- Consider desired music type
- What do the guru/expert's think of my design?
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This is some reasonable organising.
It's good to see that you have not chosen drivers. Let them fit your design, after you've done it, not the other way around.
You've obviously noticed that many use the word 'lobbing', it is just a spelling mistake. 🙂
It's good to see that you have not chosen drivers. Let them fit your design, after you've done it, not the other way around.
You've obviously noticed that many use the word 'lobbing', it is just a spelling mistake. 🙂
Well, lobbying is also something to watch out for, especially considering the amount of publicity that some drivers / models / brands get these days.
Yes, it is indeed just a spelling mistake.
To weight your list, when you start to design and need to choose between options or paths to follow, form a mental note of your basic priorities. Should it be audio first, or looks first, or cost first or what, the basics. It is easy to make decisions after you have solid foundation. You can use what list and priorities you want, point is that you have a foundation to reflect against. I've come up with size, cost, looks and audio quality and it should always be fun. Cost includes time, money, relationships etc.
You've decided to make a big speaker so (small) size is not high on the priority list. If you decide the audio quality is highest priority, then there is only looks and cost to prioritize. If you don't have strict budget nor time constraints, you could relax on the cost so the priority list is now 1. audio, 2. looks, 3. cost, 4. size.
Point is, when ever you are confused or not quite sure what you should do try to reflect your thinking through this basic priority list. It'll help you be confident on the design decisions you make and make the progress go fast and give you the best outcome possible. For example, if the audio quality and looks are over cost, you should make prototypes to be sure you've got the best possible audio quality ( compare side by side ) and the manufacturing skills are up to the looks you are striving for.
If you don't have a list like this there is a risk that the outcome is costly, ugly and doesn't sound that good 😀
Remember to have fun!🙂
You've decided to make a big speaker so (small) size is not high on the priority list. If you decide the audio quality is highest priority, then there is only looks and cost to prioritize. If you don't have strict budget nor time constraints, you could relax on the cost so the priority list is now 1. audio, 2. looks, 3. cost, 4. size.
Point is, when ever you are confused or not quite sure what you should do try to reflect your thinking through this basic priority list. It'll help you be confident on the design decisions you make and make the progress go fast and give you the best outcome possible. For example, if the audio quality and looks are over cost, you should make prototypes to be sure you've got the best possible audio quality ( compare side by side ) and the manufacturing skills are up to the looks you are striving for.
If you don't have a list like this there is a risk that the outcome is costly, ugly and doesn't sound that good 😀
Remember to have fun!🙂
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I missed driver distortion. Both linear and nonlinear. And resonance problems in cavities of enclosures plus the ways to deal with them. To start with 😉
Good list so far.
It is never too early to start planning how you will test your drivers and the finished system. At a minimum you will need to (1) measure the impedances of your drivers (2) measure the near field and gated far field frequency responses of your drivers.
It is never too early to start planning how you will test your drivers and the finished system. At a minimum you will need to (1) measure the impedances of your drivers (2) measure the near field and gated far field frequency responses of your drivers.
Interesting list - it’s like it’s created by a machine learning algorithm on building speakers online with attention to how to avoid problems detail more than overall concepts and why making a speaker in the first place. Attention to problems is fine but dont forget what it is you really want to achieve with your DIY project.
I would probably focus more on music preference, room size, SPL, driver layout and other decision making design preference like source/amp strategy, waf/size/wood, flexibility for replacing/changing parts, active/passive/dsp etc.
Do you look for a 3-way or 2,5 way?
Why do you want a large tower and not a wide box or a bookshelf?
What’s the max size you can allow and how big is your room?
These things will govern everything else.
I would probably focus more on music preference, room size, SPL, driver layout and other decision making design preference like source/amp strategy, waf/size/wood, flexibility for replacing/changing parts, active/passive/dsp etc.
Do you look for a 3-way or 2,5 way?
Why do you want a large tower and not a wide box or a bookshelf?
What’s the max size you can allow and how big is your room?
These things will govern everything else.
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I suppose I would count in the opinions of other experienced listeners. Not to discount all the objective parameters, but - there does exist the phenomena that goes something like "measures perfect, sounds terrible".
Considering a grounds up design (which I applaud you for attempting) without a listener reference other than your own self, how will you know?
I fail to comprehend doing a design - then picking the drivers to suit, say, frequency range and DB SPL for the positions needed. Why not when a famous designer says "from what I hear, such an such driver reveals the micro-whatevers during loud passages", I'd think making a note of it would be useful. Same if another very experienced designer said "for just a little more, you can get a much better sounding unit". This is data that counts just a much - maybe more - than the usual objective stuff.
IMHO, of course.
Considering a grounds up design (which I applaud you for attempting) without a listener reference other than your own self, how will you know?
I fail to comprehend doing a design - then picking the drivers to suit, say, frequency range and DB SPL for the positions needed. Why not when a famous designer says "from what I hear, such an such driver reveals the micro-whatevers during loud passages", I'd think making a note of it would be useful. Same if another very experienced designer said "for just a little more, you can get a much better sounding unit". This is data that counts just a much - maybe more - than the usual objective stuff.
IMHO, of course.
Thanks for all the suggestions everyone. I've added them to the list above.
I know the general direction I want to go, I just don't want to say, design something with two tweeters just to find out about comb filtering after they're made 🙂
The overall advice on how to plan etc is appreciated as well.
I know the general direction I want to go, I just don't want to say, design something with two tweeters just to find out about comb filtering after they're made 🙂
The overall advice on how to plan etc is appreciated as well.
directivity
purpose of use and space in which the speaker is used :
a pa speaker has different requirements than a kitchen radio
purpose of use and space in which the speaker is used :
a pa speaker has different requirements than a kitchen radio
Pick a commercial model which you would like to better, in someway, with your own design. Better sound, or visually more appealing, or just cheaper or all of them. Check out if the commercial speaker is good at all, it is if you heard it and it caused goose bumps, or was so beautiful you don't even remember how it sounded or what ever.
If possible, buy a pair so you'll have a solid reference. In secondhand market this could be done with very little or no loss.
If not possible to buy a reference pair, make it a thought experiment at least. Pick a model and scrutinize what compromises were taken. Compare to similar models, whats the difference, what are the issues you can make better. Here you need the details, what compromises are taken and what could be a better compromise. Maybe there are some cost cuts, or is it just marketing. Many commercial speaker are just marketing, equally as many have good engineering behind. Some are plain ugly but might be much better audio quality than the shiny one.
You can start from scratch as well, but it is much easier to achieve your goal when the goal is clear. And it is never easy if your goal is high.
You could decide the goal is a two way with 6" bass but in my opinion a wiser goal would be to build the most awesome thing ever and then find out how it can be made, might have 10 tweeters if it is a reggae sound system! It is all fine. Remember to have fun!🙂
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Thanks. I like the look of the Legacy Audio Aeris, but I have some reservations about copying someone’s design entirely and not being able to have quite as much pride in it. Plus, at $20k I don’t think I’ll be able to get my hands on a pair anytime soon. I may downsize their 8” and 10” midrange/woofer and possibly go with a non-open baffle upper section. Im new to it but I feel like open baffle is harder to get right so it’s bigger gamble.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Yeah that is an expensive one. You could go through your list on the first post and try to figure out how they are taken account in this particular speaker. You can learn a lot. Might be a bit overwhelming though, it could take a week worth of reading and thinking to examine per item in the list depending how much reading and thinking you've done already 🙂 This is high end territory though, so remember some of the decisions are made to reach that market sector.
But first you could go to a Hifi shop and listen some openbaffle speakers and something with ribbon(s), 4-5 way speakers, to see if there is anything else here worth to you than the looks. Have fun!🙂
edit. Hifishark lists some secondhand Aeris pairs around 10k and I'm sure a DIY clone would cost many thousand per speaker and a lot of time. The enclosure is a lot of work, lots of expensive parts parts and countless hours for crossover design, fun for years! 🙂
But first you could go to a Hifi shop and listen some openbaffle speakers and something with ribbon(s), 4-5 way speakers, to see if there is anything else here worth to you than the looks. Have fun!🙂
edit. Hifishark lists some secondhand Aeris pairs around 10k and I'm sure a DIY clone would cost many thousand per speaker and a lot of time. The enclosure is a lot of work, lots of expensive parts parts and countless hours for crossover design, fun for years! 🙂
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You have missed the six most important things to take into consideration before even worrying about that list:
Room Size
Room Acoustical Characteristics
Listening Position
Expected/Possible Speaker Locations
Type of Music
Intended SPL
^ i didn't want to post this as some find my obsessions bothersome!
Thank you Classicalfan. 😀
Very nice idea you had to start this thread Overboard.
Thank you Classicalfan. 😀
Very nice idea you had to start this thread Overboard.
Well, I suspect that they will find me more bothersome than you, since I harp on this quite a bit.
It amazes me how often people jump to a solution without ever having defined the problem first. Not just on this forum, but in the world in general.
It amazes me how often people jump to a solution without ever having defined the problem first. Not just on this forum, but in the world in general.
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