soundstream reference 1000s
what should the rail voltage be mines is reading about 21v. i'm using it to power a set of 6 1/2" morel hybrid ovation midrange speaker. after 20 min of playing the amp get extremely hot (hotter than my reference class A 6.0 on the tweeter). if you put your hand on it for a full second it will burn you. If i continue letting the amp play longer than the 20 min the amp will then shut itself off. After it cools down it will fire back up and play for the 20 min then same thing happens. any help will be great.
i also own another 1000s which keeps blowing the power supply transistor randomly. what i mean is i will replace all power supply transistor and the amp will work fine for weeks to month. until on a random day when i start my car i hear the amp blowing up. this has happened to me 3 times already same senario it will work for a month and then go bad as i am starting my car.
what should the rail voltage be mines is reading about 21v. i'm using it to power a set of 6 1/2" morel hybrid ovation midrange speaker. after 20 min of playing the amp get extremely hot (hotter than my reference class A 6.0 on the tweeter). if you put your hand on it for a full second it will burn you. If i continue letting the amp play longer than the 20 min the amp will then shut itself off. After it cools down it will fire back up and play for the 20 min then same thing happens. any help will be great.
i also own another 1000s which keeps blowing the power supply transistor randomly. what i mean is i will replace all power supply transistor and the amp will work fine for weeks to month. until on a random day when i start my car i hear the amp blowing up. this has happened to me 3 times already same senario it will work for a month and then go bad as i am starting my car.
Sounds like the power supply can't handle the low voltage condition during start! I think you can find schematics on the web for this model. I would look to see if it has some sort of low voltage no start type circuit. maybe monitor your voltage at the amp during cranking. maybe make sure the remote turn on line stays off until the car has fully started.
Next time you replace your power supply transistors. Replace the gate resistors they most likely have changed in value causing the power supply to over heat .
Always keep the radio off during startup or install a large Electrolytic cap about a half a fared 16v right beside the amp. This will keep the voltage from dropping and absorb any nasty spikes created during startup.
Always keep the radio off during startup or install a large Electrolytic cap about a half a fared 16v right beside the amp. This will keep the voltage from dropping and absorb any nasty spikes created during startup.
"i also own another 1000s which keeps blowing the power supply transistor randomly. what i mean is i will replace all power supply transistor and the amp will work fine for weeks to month. until on a random day when i start my car i hear the amp blowing up. this has happened to me 3 times already same scenario it will work for a month and then go bad as i am starting my car."
Your treating the symptom of the failure mode and not the failure mode cause. If the same thing happens again and again, then you have overlooked something. Perhaps it some of the following.
A: intermittently shorting transformer. Check and clear all windings so there is no possibility of shorting, This is a common issue with these amps. Try using some insulating compound or simple plastic pressed into the windings securing them from shorting, etc...
B: bad gate driver resistors, or transistors. I have never seen one of these blow a single mosfet and not have some damage to the gate resistor or driver transistors < and I mean never on this fault >
one things for sure is that your treating the symptom of the fault and not the fault problem itself just due to the repetitive nature of your post, and it is most likely intermittent in nature so it will be a tough one to find and render correctly.
"what should the rail voltage be mines is reading about 21v. after 20 min of playing the amp get extremely hot (hotter than my reference class A 6.0 on the tweeter). If i continue letting the amp play longer than the 20 min the amp will then shut itself off. After it cools down it will fire back up and play for the 20 min then same thing happens."
Ref1000S should have +&- 37.8 VDC on its high rails < high power mode >, so at 21 vdc your not up to spec for high power mode at 4 ohms. This amp has a auto mode selector circuit that drops the rails voltage if it is run at low ohm loads. perhaps this circuit is faulty causing the amp to behave like it is concerning the rail voltage issue. I'm tending to think its something else entirely.
The thermal shutdown is working just fine trying to protect the amp from heat induced failure. This is why its thermal cycling on you like it is and this is due to the excessive heat sink temperature which here again is a Symptom of the main fault issue.
Did you repair or rebuild this amp? Has it been repaired by someone else ? In my mind there are about three thread pages of work just to check out the many things that could be causing this amp to be doing what it is. but since I don't know the history of the amp and have not seen in open on my bench anything I might say at this point would be at best guessing. The voltage issue is symptom along with the over heating, and I can think of a dozen things right off hand that could cause this, and all of them require I have my hands on the amp to verify proper spec's before moving on to the next possibility.
These amps were designed as High Current amplifiers. The auto load sense circuitry and the very large array of Darlington outputs, along with the paralleled rectifiers in the secondary of the power supply all point to a high current design. Also its name REF 1000 which was supposed to mean it power output at 1 ohm load as I recall. Yeah I was around when these were new on the block. And my friends from old SoundStream told me that they curve traces outputs and diodes for the supply just so they would match properly and current share properly in this amp. So this is not the kind of amp you throw couple replacement semiconductors in and hope for the best on. ALL the outputs be MUST closely gain matched for current sharing, and also the rectifiers in the power supply are also the same needing to be curve traced to get them to carry equal shares of the power being feed to this amp or the weaker devices will fail first causing the amp let out the smoke again.
This is all very common with a amp this big using so many devices to achieve its service power level. And without a ton more info on this amp I and just about anybody else would be guessing as to why this amp is trying to shell its guts on main street. I have seen you post on this forum asking and getting loads of help on these types of amps before. My suggestion is if your in doubt about any of these amps then ask one of the more senior fellows here to take a look at it for you and give you a analysis of its current operational state. With all of its complexity I doubt it can be solved on open forum, with less then 6 thread pages of back and forth testing requests for info. I have seen my share of these, including ones that could not be saved for love or money < running subs at 1 ohm usually > This is not a beginners amp to repair what with all of the gain matching and in circuitry balance checked required by SoundStream just to rebuild this amp. I know I have their old repair spec in hand, and getting all those outputs to current share requires you test each one in circuit by reading the V drop across each emitter resistor, and they must all match value as closely as possible < better then 10% tolerance IMHO > Oh and those emitter resistor burn up in value so be prepared to replace bunches of them also just so the V drop test will be correct. I doubt your DVM has a low ohm range capable of measuring them correctly and within tolerance so be ready to buy new and replace with any failed outputs connected to them, or the test will be invalid and results worthless and the amp will fail again.
I would need hands on to be of more help with a amp as complexly designed as this one. There are just too many variables to run down in a single forum thread. The amount of info/training and testing you will need to perform exceeds any typical norm in this case. I can share test procedures with you but if you have never done them before and or don't understand why they did them they will be meaningless and useless to you.
I'm not trying to be mean spirited towards you. I am being very honest and am sharing all of my intimate knowledge of these particular amps, including all I gleaned from my old friends at SoundStream many moons ago. So don't take the technical info run down personally its all the truth and straight from SoundStream, and my trusted friends that helped me to understand these amps the way I do. I'm not trying to be mean and these amps ain't easy to repair.😉
Your treating the symptom of the failure mode and not the failure mode cause. If the same thing happens again and again, then you have overlooked something. Perhaps it some of the following.
A: intermittently shorting transformer. Check and clear all windings so there is no possibility of shorting, This is a common issue with these amps. Try using some insulating compound or simple plastic pressed into the windings securing them from shorting, etc...
B: bad gate driver resistors, or transistors. I have never seen one of these blow a single mosfet and not have some damage to the gate resistor or driver transistors < and I mean never on this fault >
one things for sure is that your treating the symptom of the fault and not the fault problem itself just due to the repetitive nature of your post, and it is most likely intermittent in nature so it will be a tough one to find and render correctly.
"what should the rail voltage be mines is reading about 21v. after 20 min of playing the amp get extremely hot (hotter than my reference class A 6.0 on the tweeter). If i continue letting the amp play longer than the 20 min the amp will then shut itself off. After it cools down it will fire back up and play for the 20 min then same thing happens."
Ref1000S should have +&- 37.8 VDC on its high rails < high power mode >, so at 21 vdc your not up to spec for high power mode at 4 ohms. This amp has a auto mode selector circuit that drops the rails voltage if it is run at low ohm loads. perhaps this circuit is faulty causing the amp to behave like it is concerning the rail voltage issue. I'm tending to think its something else entirely.
The thermal shutdown is working just fine trying to protect the amp from heat induced failure. This is why its thermal cycling on you like it is and this is due to the excessive heat sink temperature which here again is a Symptom of the main fault issue.
Did you repair or rebuild this amp? Has it been repaired by someone else ? In my mind there are about three thread pages of work just to check out the many things that could be causing this amp to be doing what it is. but since I don't know the history of the amp and have not seen in open on my bench anything I might say at this point would be at best guessing. The voltage issue is symptom along with the over heating, and I can think of a dozen things right off hand that could cause this, and all of them require I have my hands on the amp to verify proper spec's before moving on to the next possibility.
These amps were designed as High Current amplifiers. The auto load sense circuitry and the very large array of Darlington outputs, along with the paralleled rectifiers in the secondary of the power supply all point to a high current design. Also its name REF 1000 which was supposed to mean it power output at 1 ohm load as I recall. Yeah I was around when these were new on the block. And my friends from old SoundStream told me that they curve traces outputs and diodes for the supply just so they would match properly and current share properly in this amp. So this is not the kind of amp you throw couple replacement semiconductors in and hope for the best on. ALL the outputs be MUST closely gain matched for current sharing, and also the rectifiers in the power supply are also the same needing to be curve traced to get them to carry equal shares of the power being feed to this amp or the weaker devices will fail first causing the amp let out the smoke again.
This is all very common with a amp this big using so many devices to achieve its service power level. And without a ton more info on this amp I and just about anybody else would be guessing as to why this amp is trying to shell its guts on main street. I have seen you post on this forum asking and getting loads of help on these types of amps before. My suggestion is if your in doubt about any of these amps then ask one of the more senior fellows here to take a look at it for you and give you a analysis of its current operational state. With all of its complexity I doubt it can be solved on open forum, with less then 6 thread pages of back and forth testing requests for info. I have seen my share of these, including ones that could not be saved for love or money < running subs at 1 ohm usually > This is not a beginners amp to repair what with all of the gain matching and in circuitry balance checked required by SoundStream just to rebuild this amp. I know I have their old repair spec in hand, and getting all those outputs to current share requires you test each one in circuit by reading the V drop across each emitter resistor, and they must all match value as closely as possible < better then 10% tolerance IMHO > Oh and those emitter resistor burn up in value so be prepared to replace bunches of them also just so the V drop test will be correct. I doubt your DVM has a low ohm range capable of measuring them correctly and within tolerance so be ready to buy new and replace with any failed outputs connected to them, or the test will be invalid and results worthless and the amp will fail again.
I would need hands on to be of more help with a amp as complexly designed as this one. There are just too many variables to run down in a single forum thread. The amount of info/training and testing you will need to perform exceeds any typical norm in this case. I can share test procedures with you but if you have never done them before and or don't understand why they did them they will be meaningless and useless to you.
I'm not trying to be mean spirited towards you. I am being very honest and am sharing all of my intimate knowledge of these particular amps, including all I gleaned from my old friends at SoundStream many moons ago. So don't take the technical info run down personally its all the truth and straight from SoundStream, and my trusted friends that helped me to understand these amps the way I do. I'm not trying to be mean and these amps ain't easy to repair.😉
thank you for trying to help
my digital multi meter is the fluke 87V would this work for the test you mentioned. i don't have any electronics background, but do have perry's amp repairing guide. i haven't read his entire tutorial yet. i'm just trying to get my system to wow me and it just doesn't. i keep trying to get it to wow me. i recently purchased a fosgate 3 sixty.3 sound processor and did get my system to wow me for a few days until the 1000s had this problem shutting off. and the other 1000s i use for the sub failed as well which i replaced with the reference 500 which is operating strong. the only problem i have with the reference 500 is
pop sound on system startup and system power down can someone tell me what i must change on the amp to eliminate this annoying pop it freaks me out all the time.
anyhow the combo i love the most is with the class a 6.0 on my tweets, 1000s on the mids, 1000s on the sub.
sadly this setup wasn't meant to be. i can do without one 1000s but i need at least one 1000s for my midrange they just sound so beautiful. i hear things in the music i never heard before. none of my other amps can do what the 1000s can. reason for me to want to repair it correctly instead of allowing it to be used to failure beyond repair. i'm pretty sure it is something stupid.
i'm pretty sure it has something to do with the power supply side because i'm not getting the 38v rail. amp idle current is almost 4 amps. dc offset is 1.3 and 2.4mv.
theamp is operational just not 100% due to extreme heat issue.
my digital multi meter is the fluke 87V would this work for the test you mentioned. i don't have any electronics background, but do have perry's amp repairing guide. i haven't read his entire tutorial yet. i'm just trying to get my system to wow me and it just doesn't. i keep trying to get it to wow me. i recently purchased a fosgate 3 sixty.3 sound processor and did get my system to wow me for a few days until the 1000s had this problem shutting off. and the other 1000s i use for the sub failed as well which i replaced with the reference 500 which is operating strong. the only problem i have with the reference 500 is
pop sound on system startup and system power down can someone tell me what i must change on the amp to eliminate this annoying pop it freaks me out all the time.
anyhow the combo i love the most is with the class a 6.0 on my tweets, 1000s on the mids, 1000s on the sub.
sadly this setup wasn't meant to be. i can do without one 1000s but i need at least one 1000s for my midrange they just sound so beautiful. i hear things in the music i never heard before. none of my other amps can do what the 1000s can. reason for me to want to repair it correctly instead of allowing it to be used to failure beyond repair. i'm pretty sure it is something stupid.
i'm pretty sure it has something to do with the power supply side because i'm not getting the 38v rail. amp idle current is almost 4 amps. dc offset is 1.3 and 2.4mv.
theamp is operational just not 100% due to extreme heat issue.
I'm thinking the power supply is fine and the low ohm circuitry is triggering off of failed components in one or more of the channels. This would explain the high heat load, and the low rail supply and the thermal shutdown issues, but it leaves you needing to find the defective components that are not allowing the supply to operate properly in high power mode.... just thinking off the top of head about this one amps issues and how they can come together like they have for you...And I could be very wrong...Its just a best guess that explains all of the symptoms...🙂
Your 500 sounds like its muting is non functional, there is a mute control to the FEB and yours may not be working properly on the 500...And you still could have defective components in that amps also causing that issue.
Your 500 sounds like its muting is non functional, there is a mute control to the FEB and yours may not be working properly on the 500...And you still could have defective components in that amps also causing that issue.
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thanks 1moreamp
thanks 1moreamp your very kind. and thanks for the reply. the 2 - 1000s i am going to pause on them for now and instead just use my reference picasso bridged for my mids.
but for the 500 can you reference me to the part or parts that needs to be replaced. i would love to repair this problem asap.
thanks 1moreamp your very kind. and thanks for the reply. the 2 - 1000s i am going to pause on them for now and instead just use my reference picasso bridged for my mids.
but for the 500 can you reference me to the part or parts that needs to be replaced. i would love to repair this problem asap.
Ahh if I could do that and without a crystal ball I would be famous and rich lol..😉 You will need the factory document to track this issue down. I don't have any 500's laying around and its been a while since I was inside of one. PM me if you like about this issue...
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