Anyone done something like this? 92-94db sensitivity, full range two way in a relatively large cabinet?
What models of drivers might have been used in these speakers? Looks like a 20-25mm soft dome and an 200mm treated paper cone woofer.
Any help is appreciated!
Jeff
What models of drivers might have been used in these speakers? Looks like a 20-25mm soft dome and an 200mm treated paper cone woofer.
Any help is appreciated!
Jeff
Audio note woofers
Hello, i have a brand new pair of audionote woofers that i dont use, il post the models later as i dont have them handy at the mo.
They could really do with going to a good home.
Hello, i have a brand new pair of audionote woofers that i dont use, il post the models later as i dont have them handy at the mo.
They could really do with going to a good home.
Re: Audio note woofers
I could be interested in these. Were they the kit drivers sold by Audionote or were they removed from Audionote speakers (which model)?
rosstifa said:
I could be interested in these. Were they the kit drivers sold by Audionote or were they removed from Audionote speakers (which model)?
Hi,
IIRC, the Woofer is a 22cm Vifa Paper Cone unit, the Tweeter a 1" Vifa Softdome. The 92-94db/W/m rating is HIGHLY optimistic for these speakers. I'd be happy to call them 90, maybe 91db/W/m, but nothing like 94db/W/m. Crossover is pretty high for such a combo (8") at around 3Khz, X-Over is pretty simple 2nd order.
I have repeatedly heard AN/E's and must say that in my view they are NOT suited to low power amplification AT ALL. They sound nice enough with at least a 300B PSE Amp or with an 845/211 SE Amp, but anything less is really pushing it.
Subjectively, on the same Amp the Watt/Puppy MK III a friend has (he has shitloads of AN Japan gear, AN/E's, the Wilsons and now also Beauhorns) where louder than the AN/E's and handeled large scale music better. With the Beauhorns he finally agrees with me that the Baransu is a much better amp than the Kegon or Ongaku, prior to that in his system the Baransu simply did not "bring" it. Anyway, just my views.
Sayonara
IIRC, the Woofer is a 22cm Vifa Paper Cone unit, the Tweeter a 1" Vifa Softdome. The 92-94db/W/m rating is HIGHLY optimistic for these speakers. I'd be happy to call them 90, maybe 91db/W/m, but nothing like 94db/W/m. Crossover is pretty high for such a combo (8") at around 3Khz, X-Over is pretty simple 2nd order.
I have repeatedly heard AN/E's and must say that in my view they are NOT suited to low power amplification AT ALL. They sound nice enough with at least a 300B PSE Amp or with an 845/211 SE Amp, but anything less is really pushing it.
Subjectively, on the same Amp the Watt/Puppy MK III a friend has (he has shitloads of AN Japan gear, AN/E's, the Wilsons and now also Beauhorns) where louder than the AN/E's and handeled large scale music better. With the Beauhorns he finally agrees with me that the Baransu is a much better amp than the Kegon or Ongaku, prior to that in his system the Baransu simply did not "bring" it. Anyway, just my views.
Sayonara
Audionote woofers
The woofers don't have many markings on them, they were brought as replacements for a set of E type's. The customer never collected them, a few years later i brought them to have a play.
I ended up with a load of morel woofers which are much better so i dont have any use for the audionotes.
The markings on them are 46/95.
They are in perfect condition and only been used for a short time so there probably not run in yet.
The woofers don't have many markings on them, they were brought as replacements for a set of E type's. The customer never collected them, a few years later i brought them to have a play.
I ended up with a load of morel woofers which are much better so i dont have any use for the audionotes.
The markings on them are 46/95.
They are in perfect condition and only been used for a short time so there probably not run in yet.
Re: Re: Snell / Audionote type E clones
That may well be, however Audionote stresses themselves that the 94db efficiency they quote includes room gain and output from the large cabinet surface when properly placed in a corner.
Hmmmm... I think this is subject to listening habits and room size. I'm fairly happy with a two watt amplifier driving Rogers LS6s (89db/W/m.) Another 5 or 6db would be nice though, if only just for headroom.
As to other louspeaker alternatives for low power amps, I *do not* like single driver speakers, period. I've heard a few and they are all massively coloured. Horns and other exotic, high efficiency tranducers generally have limited bandwidth, making two-way designs difficult or impossible.
I just like the idea of a simple and efficient two-way. British two-way speakers in particular have a very natural and balanced sound that I like. Maybe I should have one of the resident Melbourne Audio Club cabinet builders make Ariel cabinets for me? What are some other alternatives?
Thanks for your thoughts.
Jeff
Kuei Yang Wang said:
That may well be, however Audionote stresses themselves that the 94db efficiency they quote includes room gain and output from the large cabinet surface when properly placed in a corner.
Hmmmm... I think this is subject to listening habits and room size. I'm fairly happy with a two watt amplifier driving Rogers LS6s (89db/W/m.) Another 5 or 6db would be nice though, if only just for headroom.
As to other louspeaker alternatives for low power amps, I *do not* like single driver speakers, period. I've heard a few and they are all massively coloured. Horns and other exotic, high efficiency tranducers generally have limited bandwidth, making two-way designs difficult or impossible.
I just like the idea of a simple and efficient two-way. British two-way speakers in particular have a very natural and balanced sound that I like. Maybe I should have one of the resident Melbourne Audio Club cabinet builders make Ariel cabinets for me? What are some other alternatives?
Thanks for your thoughts.
Jeff
Re: Re: Re: Snell / Audionote type E clones
Hi,
And thus aquierd are an extra 3 - 4db which, if another conservatively rated at 89db/W/m where placed similarly this speaker would also have to it's advantage.
If you make a like for like comparsion agains speakers that are rated as per industry standard, Consider the AN/E to be around 90..91db/W/m.
True.
AN/E's or AN/E Clones will not give an extra 5 - 6db, they will give you an extra db or two, likely usefull, but not enough. To repeat, I only have heard the AN/E's pass out of the "severely limited loudness" area in a non too large room once we are in PSE 300B or SE 211 Territory.
Guess what. So do I. I like British 2 Way speakers. I even use them on a daily basis. Floorstanding, I measured in room 98db/2.83V/1m and their Impedance is 15 ohm, in room response around -6db @ 30Hz and pretty flat in the Midrange. There are few thing that beat a good British 2-Way Monitor....
That will give you 3db on the Rogers.
As a guess (I have not heard them), going for the Adire HE10.1's and adding a nice active Sub (REL) will likely give you a true full range system (considereably more full range than your Rogers) with the extra 5-6db hearoom you are looking for, without parking 300 Liter Corner Horn/Reflex in your living room.
Alternatively, I am just working on putting together a German Kit Speaker called Prometheus (who stole the Fire from the Gods). This uses a pair of custom modified 12" Pro drivers (no Whizzer) without crossover on an open Baffle of around 42" X 13.5" with an added Pro Slot radiator tweeter (simple 1st order X-Over) and a pair of active 12" Subwoofers (again modified Pro Drivers). The whole package sells for 1250 Euro Dollars for all drivers, crossover components, wiring and the Subwoofer Amplifier.
(I hope this picture works... if not, link via Yahoo at the bottom....)
I have so far not finished the work but had some quick listens to individual drivers and the "Fullrange/Tweeter" combo (no baffle or enclosure), promising. Here a link (sorry text is in "Deutsche"):
http://pl.theater-city.de/basta/memphis.html
Oh, did I mention, the whole shebang clocks in at around 97 - 100db/W/m... The Designer runs the with the 300B Version of Bernings Siegfried and 5 Watt, even for Demos in large rooms...
;-)
Ciao T
Prometheus Pictures
Hi,
And thus aquierd are an extra 3 - 4db which, if another conservatively rated at 89db/W/m where placed similarly this speaker would also have to it's advantage.
If you make a like for like comparsion agains speakers that are rated as per industry standard, Consider the AN/E to be around 90..91db/W/m.
True.
AN/E's or AN/E Clones will not give an extra 5 - 6db, they will give you an extra db or two, likely usefull, but not enough. To repeat, I only have heard the AN/E's pass out of the "severely limited loudness" area in a non too large room once we are in PSE 300B or SE 211 Territory.
Guess what. So do I. I like British 2 Way speakers. I even use them on a daily basis. Floorstanding, I measured in room 98db/2.83V/1m and their Impedance is 15 ohm, in room response around -6db @ 30Hz and pretty flat in the Midrange. There are few thing that beat a good British 2-Way Monitor....
That will give you 3db on the Rogers.
As a guess (I have not heard them), going for the Adire HE10.1's and adding a nice active Sub (REL) will likely give you a true full range system (considereably more full range than your Rogers) with the extra 5-6db hearoom you are looking for, without parking 300 Liter Corner Horn/Reflex in your living room.
Alternatively, I am just working on putting together a German Kit Speaker called Prometheus (who stole the Fire from the Gods). This uses a pair of custom modified 12" Pro drivers (no Whizzer) without crossover on an open Baffle of around 42" X 13.5" with an added Pro Slot radiator tweeter (simple 1st order X-Over) and a pair of active 12" Subwoofers (again modified Pro Drivers). The whole package sells for 1250 Euro Dollars for all drivers, crossover components, wiring and the Subwoofer Amplifier.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
(I hope this picture works... if not, link via Yahoo at the bottom....)
I have so far not finished the work but had some quick listens to individual drivers and the "Fullrange/Tweeter" combo (no baffle or enclosure), promising. Here a link (sorry text is in "Deutsche"):
http://pl.theater-city.de/basta/memphis.html
Oh, did I mention, the whole shebang clocks in at around 97 - 100db/W/m... The Designer runs the with the 300B Version of Bernings Siegfried and 5 Watt, even for Demos in large rooms...
;-)
Ciao T
Prometheus Pictures
Kuei Yang Wang said:
What British 2-way might that be?
I'm pretty sure I wouldn't like the beaming in the upper range of a woofer this large. Unfortunately, you have to use something this large to get a significant improvement in sensitivity. So suddenly you're looking at 3-ways. Ugh. Maybe I'll just build a more powerful amp.
Re: Re: Snell / Audionote type E clones
Hi,
Tannoy 15" Monitor in corner enclosures... ;-)
Bona Fida 2-Way British Monitor, just not a "Mini Monitor". But Mini-Monitors compare to real Monitors a lot like Minio-Me to Dr. Evil.
Well, the BBC LS 5/9 used a 12" Woofer and a 1.25" Tweeter without major problems. "BEaming" occurs only if the cone is too stiff and does not decouple part of it's cone surface at higher frequencies. As each and every extended range driver operates this way the problem is drastically lower than you would think.
Yes, it is physics. Physics demand that just like in project managmenet there is this equilateral triangle where achieving the goals written on two sides exclude the third. In Project management it is: "On Time"; "On Spec"; "On Budget".
In Speakers it is "Loud", "Low", "Small".
2-Way and Subwoofer more accuratly. You do get decent 8 - 10" Drivers that can play loud in small enclosures above around 80...100Hz. You do get suitable matching tweeters.
Why you.... Nope, that would be cheating... 😀
Sayonara
Hi,
Tannoy 15" Monitor in corner enclosures... ;-)
Bona Fida 2-Way British Monitor, just not a "Mini Monitor". But Mini-Monitors compare to real Monitors a lot like Minio-Me to Dr. Evil.
Well, the BBC LS 5/9 used a 12" Woofer and a 1.25" Tweeter without major problems. "BEaming" occurs only if the cone is too stiff and does not decouple part of it's cone surface at higher frequencies. As each and every extended range driver operates this way the problem is drastically lower than you would think.
Yes, it is physics. Physics demand that just like in project managmenet there is this equilateral triangle where achieving the goals written on two sides exclude the third. In Project management it is: "On Time"; "On Spec"; "On Budget".
In Speakers it is "Loud", "Low", "Small".
2-Way and Subwoofer more accuratly. You do get decent 8 - 10" Drivers that can play loud in small enclosures above around 80...100Hz. You do get suitable matching tweeters.
Why you.... Nope, that would be cheating... 😀
Sayonara
jeff mai said:
hi jeff,
any progress on this project?
i have heard a pair of AN-E/SP
from a friend with a 300B/AN-UK system and i still find them to be the best speakers so far. i've heard a few single-driver (fostex, lowther speakers, vintage coax (altec 605s) alnico stuff, klipsch 100db, etc and while i found them loud enough for 2a3 and 45 amps, i prefer the timbre, texture and tonality of the AN-Es.
like Kuei Yang Wang, though, i would prefer to match it with a 300b amp. my friend built a 2a3 to alternate with his 300b and we found it difficult playing music at "loud enough" levels. of course, "loud enough" is subjective as you said. thus, despite the more focused and musical presentation of the 2a3 amp, we both agreed the 300b is still better overall. if i should stick with triode, therefore, i'll go for an AN-E or AN-J + 300b amp combination
unfortunately, only my friend can afford branded stuff and given
my budget constraints, the only way for me is to find a bargain used pair or pursue a DIY project.
cheers!
The basic principles of an 8" / 1" combination with a very simple
crossover are fairly straightforward and tuning can be done by ear.
The bass unit needs a rising midrange response, and its inductor
value is misaligned to effect baffle step compensation, it then
compensates for the rising mid response, and the actual c/o
frequency is determined by the bass/ mid units roll-off.
For examples see the Seas Njord design, or hifi worlds KLS9.
In juggling the EQ of the bass unit baffle width is a major factor.
Usually a box of 45L to 50L tuned to 33Hz to 37Hz works well.
Sensitivity depends on the amount of baffle step compensation
built into the design, which also sets optimum placement.
🙂 sreten.
crossover are fairly straightforward and tuning can be done by ear.
The bass unit needs a rising midrange response, and its inductor
value is misaligned to effect baffle step compensation, it then
compensates for the rising mid response, and the actual c/o
frequency is determined by the bass/ mid units roll-off.
For examples see the Seas Njord design, or hifi worlds KLS9.
In juggling the EQ of the bass unit baffle width is a major factor.
Usually a box of 45L to 50L tuned to 33Hz to 37Hz works well.
Sensitivity depends on the amount of baffle step compensation
built into the design, which also sets optimum placement.
🙂 sreten.
sourcing
where can i get price quotes for either the Njord or KLS9?
how do they compare with the vifa drivers used by AN-Es?
you mentioned design specs to raise speaker sensitivity, how about keeping the impedance high and flat?
cheers!
sreten said:
where can i get price quotes for either the Njord or KLS9?
how do they compare with the vifa drivers used by AN-Es?
you mentioned design specs to raise speaker sensitivity, how about keeping the impedance high and flat?
cheers!
the seas njord is mentioned here
http://ldsg.snippets.org/sect-16-2b.php3
and you can find the plans at the seas website.
Madisound sells a crossover kit and the drivers are listed on this page
http://www.madisound.com/seas.html
http://ldsg.snippets.org/sect-16-2b.php3
and you can find the plans at the seas website.
Madisound sells a crossover kit and the drivers are listed on this page
http://www.madisound.com/seas.html
pics of cabinet pieces
here's a link to pics of pre-cut cabinet/enclosure pieces from
an audionote AN-E speaker kit supplier
http://audionotekits.espyderweb.net/an_e.html
hope this helps.
here's a link to pics of pre-cut cabinet/enclosure pieces from
an audionote AN-E speaker kit supplier
http://audionotekits.espyderweb.net/an_e.html
hope this helps.
here's a link to some pics of AN-Es crossover. can you make anything of it? i think this is the copper wired version.
http://www.hifi.nl/recensies2.php?id=1565
thanks!
http://www.hifi.nl/recensies2.php?id=1565
thanks!
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