Hi,
Just thought someone here might have a theory reguarding sonic degradation of
oxidized solid core copper...
🙂
My problem is the following:
I want to build a cheap and good sounding interconnetion between my ZenV4 and BoZ
(neither of which I've built as of yet...).
After a few days spent on searching for the best rca male/female combo
and how the use of silver or copper in the cable affects the sound
I came to the conclusion that
it will be expensive to have a no-compromise attitude!
So... The best interconnect is NO interconnect, right? I'm leaning toward pulling
the cable directly from the
pre to the amp without any connectors inbetween (many of you out there
have probably done the same).
And now to the question:
* Would using bare copper (say 18-20 gauge) work well (one run for hot and
one for ground for each channel)?
* How about oxidization? Will oxidized copper conduct poorer than shiny new copper?
Please observe: I don't mean at the contact surface itself, which would be soldered, but
on the bare copper BETWEEN connections!
If the answer is no, then I can obviously skipp the tefon isolation.
😎
Hope this makes sense to some of you at least.
Any answers are much appreciated!
/Niclas
Just thought someone here might have a theory reguarding sonic degradation of
oxidized solid core copper...
🙂
My problem is the following:
I want to build a cheap and good sounding interconnetion between my ZenV4 and BoZ
(neither of which I've built as of yet...).
After a few days spent on searching for the best rca male/female combo
and how the use of silver or copper in the cable affects the sound
I came to the conclusion that
it will be expensive to have a no-compromise attitude!
So... The best interconnect is NO interconnect, right? I'm leaning toward pulling
the cable directly from the
pre to the amp without any connectors inbetween (many of you out there
have probably done the same).
And now to the question:
* Would using bare copper (say 18-20 gauge) work well (one run for hot and
one for ground for each channel)?
* How about oxidization? Will oxidized copper conduct poorer than shiny new copper?
Please observe: I don't mean at the contact surface itself, which would be soldered, but
on the bare copper BETWEEN connections!
If the answer is no, then I can obviously skipp the tefon isolation.
😎
Hope this makes sense to some of you at least.
Any answers are much appreciated!
/Niclas
Well if you take magnet wire or something like that it will have a thin layer of laquer or something so it will not oxydize.
another solution i have read about is to sandwich the bare wire between 2 layers of clear packing tape. i think there's more going on that just preventing oxidation with that scheme though. i forgot where i saw it.
re. oxidation, i suppose the 'skin effect' would be impacted, right? from what i understand, high-frequency signals tend to be carried on the skin of a conductor...if the skin is oxidized...i don't know what happens. probably acts like an insulator?
re. oxidation, i suppose the 'skin effect' would be impacted, right? from what i understand, high-frequency signals tend to be carried on the skin of a conductor...if the skin is oxidized...i don't know what happens. probably acts like an insulator?
Just use tinned or silver-plated copper and stop worrying. Bare copper can be a problem; the oxides that form can cause measurable HF distortion. Silver oxides are reasonably conductive.
Don't count on packing tape to be an oxygen barrier. The adhesives can also react with the copper. The worst is copper in plasticized clear vinyl- the photolytic and oxidative reactions will corrode it within months.
If you're not carrying a lot of current (i.e., high load impedance) and you're feeling ambitious, try using carbon fiber as the conductor. You can't solder it, but it can make a good mechanical connection.
Don't count on packing tape to be an oxygen barrier. The adhesives can also react with the copper. The worst is copper in plasticized clear vinyl- the photolytic and oxidative reactions will corrode it within months.
If you're not carrying a lot of current (i.e., high load impedance) and you're feeling ambitious, try using carbon fiber as the conductor. You can't solder it, but it can make a good mechanical connection.
Hi,
With all due respect to SY, I would stay away from tinned or silver plated copper.
Having listened to a lot of wires and cables, tinned always sound slightly dull, and silver-plated are generally rather bright sounding to me, compared with 'plain' copper.
If it was me, I would polish the wires surfaces up with metal polish, and if you have any, wipe the wires with some Cramolin or Pro-Gold on their surfaces. Failing that, use some synthetic car oil, for protection, but it must be synthetic and not the usual stuff which is generally used. Mobil One is a good example of synthetic oil, and merely the residue in an emptied out can will treat dozens of wires in this way, so you might get this for free from your local garage.
This will tend to keep them 'clinically clean' for longer, and air (i.e. nothing) is definitely the best dielectric of all (possibly, except a vacuum!).
The practical problems with this, are that the wires will be resting on some surface or other, which could be a poorer dielectric, and, of course, they can be shorted out with bad results to the equipment, perhaps. This is unless you can run the wires stretched between the equipment in mid-air somehow, which would be theoretically ideal, of course.
To avoid these problems, using some PTFE sheathing, available from electronics suppliers, is about the best compromise and I would still go throught the polishing routine first.
PTFE is about the best readily available dielectric for this purpose, and is almost as good as nothing (air!).
Direct soldering, if you can cope with the restrictions caused by this, is definitely the best way to go, and sounds better than any connector, and I have tried them all. It is also free!
If you need to use RCAs, try the Eichmann minimalist types which look rather poor, but sound better than all of the others (expensive cable jewellery!) in my experience.
Regards,
With all due respect to SY, I would stay away from tinned or silver plated copper.
Having listened to a lot of wires and cables, tinned always sound slightly dull, and silver-plated are generally rather bright sounding to me, compared with 'plain' copper.
If it was me, I would polish the wires surfaces up with metal polish, and if you have any, wipe the wires with some Cramolin or Pro-Gold on their surfaces. Failing that, use some synthetic car oil, for protection, but it must be synthetic and not the usual stuff which is generally used. Mobil One is a good example of synthetic oil, and merely the residue in an emptied out can will treat dozens of wires in this way, so you might get this for free from your local garage.
This will tend to keep them 'clinically clean' for longer, and air (i.e. nothing) is definitely the best dielectric of all (possibly, except a vacuum!).
The practical problems with this, are that the wires will be resting on some surface or other, which could be a poorer dielectric, and, of course, they can be shorted out with bad results to the equipment, perhaps. This is unless you can run the wires stretched between the equipment in mid-air somehow, which would be theoretically ideal, of course.
To avoid these problems, using some PTFE sheathing, available from electronics suppliers, is about the best compromise and I would still go throught the polishing routine first.
PTFE is about the best readily available dielectric for this purpose, and is almost as good as nothing (air!).
Direct soldering, if you can cope with the restrictions caused by this, is definitely the best way to go, and sounds better than any connector, and I have tried them all. It is also free!
If you need to use RCAs, try the Eichmann minimalist types which look rather poor, but sound better than all of the others (expensive cable jewellery!) in my experience.
Regards,
Bob, that's a sure recipe for oxidation. Oils are fabulously permeable to oxygen, and polishing will only speed up the oxidation process.
Whether any of this will be audible in the real world is questionable, but certainly having oxidized surfaces on a wire will result in a measurable degradation at high frequencies. I'm extremely skeptical about claims that plated wires give a "brighter" sound, unless they're being compared to corroded wires with measurable HF rolloffs.
Whether any of this will be audible in the real world is questionable, but certainly having oxidized surfaces on a wire will result in a measurable degradation at high frequencies. I'm extremely skeptical about claims that plated wires give a "brighter" sound, unless they're being compared to corroded wires with measurable HF rolloffs.
ROLLING YOUR OWN.
Hi,
This is the best way IMO:
Plain enamelled copper wire can be twisted and inserted into a braided shield.
It is airtight so it will never oxidise and therefore be stable over time.
If you want to do one better,silver wire can be had that is Kapton insulated. (same as enamelled wire but with a polyimide coating.)
No connector is always better,yet in case you need some RCAs go for the Cardas or Eichmann.
I've used WBTs in the passed all over but they're going out,they have a slight harshness and upper midrange glare that becomes obvious when you use them throughout the system.
As a DIY you're not bound to any connector though and I love to use the Fischer Camac types.
Naturally many other good types exist and even the ubiquitous BNC is better than the "el cheapo" cinch.
Cheers,😉
Hi,
This is the best way IMO:
Plain enamelled copper wire can be twisted and inserted into a braided shield.
It is airtight so it will never oxidise and therefore be stable over time.
If you want to do one better,silver wire can be had that is Kapton insulated. (same as enamelled wire but with a polyimide coating.)
No connector is always better,yet in case you need some RCAs go for the Cardas or Eichmann.
I've used WBTs in the passed all over but they're going out,they have a slight harshness and upper midrange glare that becomes obvious when you use them throughout the system.
As a DIY you're not bound to any connector though and I love to use the Fischer Camac types.
Naturally many other good types exist and even the ubiquitous BNC is better than the "el cheapo" cinch.
Cheers,😉
SY said:
Hi Sy,
We will just have to agree to disagree on this one as we seem to be completely opposed in our thoughts and experiences.
Of course, having any oxidation on any wires or connectors will degrade the sound, due amongst other things to diodic effects etc., and higher surface finishes (like polished ones) will also sound better than those which are roughly machined or finished.
I have spent some 30 years 'listening' to components etc in audio, and virtually all wires will 'sound' as I previously suggested.
Whether you, or most others, will hear this is dependent on the overall resolution of your system etc., and the accuity of your hearing, of course.
Cramolin or Pro-Gold, is the best way possible of keeping things 'clean' and preventing oxidation (short of a vacuum or removing all oxygen from the vicinity) and certain cable manufacturers have used this technique in production.
Cramolin is used by a host of big names in the aerospace , aeronautical, marine, medical, telecommunications and computer industries, and where life support is concerned, these guys don't take chances! 😱
*Synthetic* oil, such as that which I very carefully specified (as opposed to ordinary mineral-based oils) is a very good insulator against such things as oxygen, and is better than nothing, if Cramolin (or Pro-Gold, which is a derivative of Cramolin) is not available.
As I also said, in reality, the best compromise which is practical is to use the PTFE sheathing, which does sound only marginally less good than nothing at all, and if it is quite close fitting (which is only possibly because it is so lacking in friction [slippery!]) it is very effective at excluding air from the wires, and consequently, at reducing the onset of any oxidation.
Regards,
ILLUSIONS.
Hi,
As you say,it is a compromise.
Let's not fool ourselves here,no sheathing is going to keep oxydators away.
If you need PTFE insulated wires,then buy them as such.
The PTFE insulation is dripped on,not drawn through as is common for other insulators.
Cheers,😉
\from a designer of cables.
Hi,
As you say,it is a compromise.
Let's not fool ourselves here,no sheathing is going to keep oxydators away.
If you need PTFE insulated wires,then buy them as such.
The PTFE insulation is dripped on,not drawn through as is common for other insulators.
Cheers,😉
\from a designer of cables.
Frank: Normally, the PTFE is extruded onto the wire, not really dripped, using a crosshead die and a specially designed extruder. This requires the wire to have the dreaded plating because of the temperatures involved. See, for example, the excellent papers and patents by Chak Gupta.
Bob: I'm fairly familiar with the oxygen permeability specs for various hydrocarbon and synthetic oils. The use of these materials in aerospace, where I've got a bit of experience (former Senior Scientist at Lockheed Advanced Aeronautics, running research programs on conductive materials for electronics- you can look up some of my patents on the use of synthetic materials and hydrocarbons in these applications), is NOT for coating wires, but rather in edge connectors and similar uses where the cross-sectional area for diffusion is quite small. As Frank correctly points out, wrapping wires with PTFE is pretty much useless for preventing oxidation.
If you've got any data on valid listening tests showing the audibility of plating on wires, I'm... errrr... all ears.
Bob: I'm fairly familiar with the oxygen permeability specs for various hydrocarbon and synthetic oils. The use of these materials in aerospace, where I've got a bit of experience (former Senior Scientist at Lockheed Advanced Aeronautics, running research programs on conductive materials for electronics- you can look up some of my patents on the use of synthetic materials and hydrocarbons in these applications), is NOT for coating wires, but rather in edge connectors and similar uses where the cross-sectional area for diffusion is quite small. As Frank correctly points out, wrapping wires with PTFE is pretty much useless for preventing oxidation.
If you've got any data on valid listening tests showing the audibility of plating on wires, I'm... errrr... all ears.
Hi Frank,
Isn't it time for you to be in bed yet?
I couldn't agree more about the fashionable WBTs, they are simply too massy to sound good, and I simply cannot understand some of the higher end cable makers using them. It must be because of the fashion aspect as the Eichmanns (and some other less elegant RCAs) are way ahead sonically.
Have you tried any of the new silver Eichmanns yet? I haven't, myself, but they should be the bees knees, I reckon.
As you know from our earlier discussions, like you, I like silver the best of all I have so far tried, and the 'old' A/N and Siltechs I have are quite good. Some of my DIY silver and teflon sound good, too.
However, I thought that Niclas had a particular liking for 'bare copper' from what he said, and if that is the case, my suggestions would be his best way of dealing with the oxidation aspect of these bare copper wires. Now I think about it, if they are quite heavy gauge, he could try wrapping them in PTFE plumbers tape too, but with the thinner wires, I found this impossible to do.
It is interesting that you should comment on the PTFE covered stuff, and that, of course, is why they are so much harder to strip than most other wires. Also, with the necessary heat used to effect the PTFE coating, copper always needs to be silver plated first, of course, to stop the bare copper from oxidising during production.
Many years ago, and before I appreciated the real benefits of solid silver wires, having been dissatisfied with the brighter sound of PTFE coated copper (due to the silver plating) I researched the situation to see if I could obtain any PTFE copper without the silver plating, and it was the manufacturer who put me right about the need for the silver plating in every case of PTFE coverings on copper.
Can you put me in touch with a supplier of 'thin' silver/Kapton wires of say 30 gauge, as so far I have drawn a blank?
You will no doubt know this, although I would understand it if you might feel unable to publicly state the truth, but I wouldn't be surprised if the A/Ns are made from this silver/Kapton stuff.
Regards,
Isn't it time for you to be in bed yet?
I couldn't agree more about the fashionable WBTs, they are simply too massy to sound good, and I simply cannot understand some of the higher end cable makers using them. It must be because of the fashion aspect as the Eichmanns (and some other less elegant RCAs) are way ahead sonically.
Have you tried any of the new silver Eichmanns yet? I haven't, myself, but they should be the bees knees, I reckon.
As you know from our earlier discussions, like you, I like silver the best of all I have so far tried, and the 'old' A/N and Siltechs I have are quite good. Some of my DIY silver and teflon sound good, too.
However, I thought that Niclas had a particular liking for 'bare copper' from what he said, and if that is the case, my suggestions would be his best way of dealing with the oxidation aspect of these bare copper wires. Now I think about it, if they are quite heavy gauge, he could try wrapping them in PTFE plumbers tape too, but with the thinner wires, I found this impossible to do.
It is interesting that you should comment on the PTFE covered stuff, and that, of course, is why they are so much harder to strip than most other wires. Also, with the necessary heat used to effect the PTFE coating, copper always needs to be silver plated first, of course, to stop the bare copper from oxidising during production.
Many years ago, and before I appreciated the real benefits of solid silver wires, having been dissatisfied with the brighter sound of PTFE coated copper (due to the silver plating) I researched the situation to see if I could obtain any PTFE copper without the silver plating, and it was the manufacturer who put me right about the need for the silver plating in every case of PTFE coverings on copper.
Can you put me in touch with a supplier of 'thin' silver/Kapton wires of say 30 gauge, as so far I have drawn a blank?
You will no doubt know this, although I would understand it if you might feel unable to publicly state the truth, but I wouldn't be surprised if the A/Ns are made from this silver/Kapton stuff.
Regards,
PTFE.
Hi,
Could be.
I got this info from Phelps-Dodge (previously known as Hudson Wire Co.), our major supplier of wire.
As for plating...as far as silver plated copper wire goes the general consensus on this (my experience included) is that it tends to sound overly bright and thin.
This ,of course may be due to a number of factors such as silver purity an plating thickness amongst others.
Mind you,people sometimes claim that silver sounds bright too which IME it does not provided it is of high purity.
Cheers,😉
\All this has been discussed in previous threads,no?
Hi,
Could be.
I got this info from Phelps-Dodge (previously known as Hudson Wire Co.), our major supplier of wire.
As for plating...as far as silver plated copper wire goes the general consensus on this (my experience included) is that it tends to sound overly bright and thin.
This ,of course may be due to a number of factors such as silver purity an plating thickness amongst others.
Mind you,people sometimes claim that silver sounds bright too which IME it does not provided it is of high purity.
Cheers,😉
\All this has been discussed in previous threads,no?
THE TRADE.
Hi,
The Kapton insulated wires we use are usually 1 mm for the speaker wires.
Basically,anything is possible gaugewise even pure gold or gold alloys for that matter.
As I recall it most smaller gauges are PTFE insulated and are used as hook-up wires and insides our cables.
Actual cables are made by BICC-VERO in the UK and if you need direct contact please send an e-mail to me and I'll forward the info you need.
Come to think of it,I must have mentioned this info before in previous threads about wires...
Cheers,😉
Hi,
The Kapton insulated wires we use are usually 1 mm for the speaker wires.
Basically,anything is possible gaugewise even pure gold or gold alloys for that matter.
As I recall it most smaller gauges are PTFE insulated and are used as hook-up wires and insides our cables.
Actual cables are made by BICC-VERO in the UK and if you need direct contact please send an e-mail to me and I'll forward the info you need.
Come to think of it,I must have mentioned this info before in previous threads about wires...
Cheers,😉
Enameled wires
If you have the option, do go for a PTFE enamel/insulation instead of Kynar. As far as I know it's a better dielectric.
Many manufacturers have silver plated copper, like wire-wrap, which comes in Kynar or PTFE.
You can also go for Teflon coated silver wire. See a list here:
http://www.a-msystems.com/physiology/products/wire/coatedsilverwire.asp
Carlos
If you have the option, do go for a PTFE enamel/insulation instead of Kynar. As far as I know it's a better dielectric.
Many manufacturers have silver plated copper, like wire-wrap, which comes in Kynar or PTFE.
You can also go for Teflon coated silver wire. See a list here:
http://www.a-msystems.com/physiology/products/wire/coatedsilverwire.asp
Carlos
Frank: The ultimate real-world dielectric is foamed fluorocarbon. You can get fantastically low losses at high frequencies and quite low capacitances. Foamed polyethylene is also superb, though inferior in mechanical and thermal properties. Skin-foam combinations, best known from Maillefer, can ameliorate some of the mechanical problems.
The reason extrusion is usually used is that the thickness and concentricity of the insulating layer(s) can be very accurately controlled. A downstream capacitance sensor will allow a closed loop system to control the extruder. One of the pioneers in this area was (of course) Gore, whose wire is *the* choice for aerospace. Your contact at Phelps may have been oversimplifying- I always describe the extrusion process as being akin to a PlayDo Fun Factory, or occasionally something more excretory.
Admittedly, it's been 4 or 5 years since I spent considerable time in a wire foundry, but the last one where I did some R&D (Calmont) is a supplier to a LOT of high-end audio wire companies. Oh, my, did we have stories!
BTW, Kapton is probably not a great choice for applications not needing its high temp capabilities- it's quite hygroscopic. But it is damn tough to thermolyze, so it's great for voice coils.
The reason extrusion is usually used is that the thickness and concentricity of the insulating layer(s) can be very accurately controlled. A downstream capacitance sensor will allow a closed loop system to control the extruder. One of the pioneers in this area was (of course) Gore, whose wire is *the* choice for aerospace. Your contact at Phelps may have been oversimplifying- I always describe the extrusion process as being akin to a PlayDo Fun Factory, or occasionally something more excretory.
Admittedly, it's been 4 or 5 years since I spent considerable time in a wire foundry, but the last one where I did some R&D (Calmont) is a supplier to a LOT of high-end audio wire companies. Oh, my, did we have stories!
BTW, Kapton is probably not a great choice for applications not needing its high temp capabilities- it's quite hygroscopic. But it is damn tough to thermolyze, so it's great for voice coils.
Sy,
It is way past my bedtime and I don't wish to cross swords with anyone over such matters.
I forget who, but someone on the Forum finishes up with a saying along the lines of those who believe that you canot do something, should not prevent those others from actually doing it!
This seems quite apt to me, under the circumstances, since what I have gone to some pains to explain ***does*** work because I have done it on many occasions!
Frank did not say that "wrapping wires with PTFE is pretty much useless in preventing oxidation" in such circumstances (I know he knows better than that), and, indeed had he have done he would have been quite wrong.
Frank merely agreed with my comments that nothing 'self applied' is likely to be perfect (hence my choice of "best compromise") and quite rightly suggested that manufactured PTFE coated wire would be better, a sensible comment with which I wholeheartedly agree. (With the exception of the 'sound' of silver plated copper, which I don't personally like, but which as I have already suggested is a necessity with copper and PTFE insulation.)
However, Niclas had apparently considered the alternatives available, and seemed to have a particular penchant for bare copper wire, so I tried to assist him in some practical ways, all of which I know from experience *do work*, to retard the onset of oxidation which was precisely what Niclas had asked about!
Wrapping wires in PTFE tape, and sheathing them in PTFE tubing actually retards (by an order of magnitude, or more) the onset of oxidation in copper wires, exactly as I described. I have some now which were sheathed many years ago, and whilst they are not as bright as when I originally sheathed them, the oxidation is minimal compared with a short unsheathed section at the ends inside the connectors which are black with copper oxide.
Cramolin, which I said was the best, is used either by Boeing or Lockheed (and if it is important I will look up which) so I would expect you to be aware of this anti-oxidant and its properties, and, I can assure you, it works incredibly well.
As far as the synthetic oil I mentioned (as the least attractive choice) is concerned, it also works quite well and retards the oxidation of bare polished copper when compared with nothing at all, and I have witnessed this retardation many times. Of course, not all oils have similar anti-oxidising properties, which is why I carefully specified the oil of my choice, because I know it works in this manner.
The reason for polishing the wire is nothing to do with the oxidisation process, which may or may not affect the rate of oxidation due to the change in surface finish, but it is by way of a 'sonic' enhancement.
With similar respect to that which I showed when I first commented on this thread, whether you have worked even as a rocket scientist, or whatever, and irrespective of any relevant or irrelevant patents which may have been granted to you, these matters are simply not in dispute, They work!!!😱
Forty years ago, amongst other things, I studied metallurgy, so I also know a little about surface treatments of metals and dendrite corrosive effects and 'growths' etc., but I don't need to think back to those times to see for myself if some wire is tarnished by oxidation or not, as it is so plain to anyone's eyes to see. It goes black! 😡
As a final comment on silver wires which someone mentioned earlier, the reason why any 'tarnish' on silver is generally less harmful to the sound of the wires, is what happens with silver (in a normal domestic environment) is that mainly silver sulphide forms rather than silver oxide, and silver sulphide is a good conductor, whereas silver oxide (like copper oxide) is not.
Regards,
It is way past my bedtime and I don't wish to cross swords with anyone over such matters.
I forget who, but someone on the Forum finishes up with a saying along the lines of those who believe that you canot do something, should not prevent those others from actually doing it!
This seems quite apt to me, under the circumstances, since what I have gone to some pains to explain ***does*** work because I have done it on many occasions!
Frank did not say that "wrapping wires with PTFE is pretty much useless in preventing oxidation" in such circumstances (I know he knows better than that), and, indeed had he have done he would have been quite wrong.
Frank merely agreed with my comments that nothing 'self applied' is likely to be perfect (hence my choice of "best compromise") and quite rightly suggested that manufactured PTFE coated wire would be better, a sensible comment with which I wholeheartedly agree. (With the exception of the 'sound' of silver plated copper, which I don't personally like, but which as I have already suggested is a necessity with copper and PTFE insulation.)
However, Niclas had apparently considered the alternatives available, and seemed to have a particular penchant for bare copper wire, so I tried to assist him in some practical ways, all of which I know from experience *do work*, to retard the onset of oxidation which was precisely what Niclas had asked about!
Wrapping wires in PTFE tape, and sheathing them in PTFE tubing actually retards (by an order of magnitude, or more) the onset of oxidation in copper wires, exactly as I described. I have some now which were sheathed many years ago, and whilst they are not as bright as when I originally sheathed them, the oxidation is minimal compared with a short unsheathed section at the ends inside the connectors which are black with copper oxide.
Cramolin, which I said was the best, is used either by Boeing or Lockheed (and if it is important I will look up which) so I would expect you to be aware of this anti-oxidant and its properties, and, I can assure you, it works incredibly well.
As far as the synthetic oil I mentioned (as the least attractive choice) is concerned, it also works quite well and retards the oxidation of bare polished copper when compared with nothing at all, and I have witnessed this retardation many times. Of course, not all oils have similar anti-oxidising properties, which is why I carefully specified the oil of my choice, because I know it works in this manner.
The reason for polishing the wire is nothing to do with the oxidisation process, which may or may not affect the rate of oxidation due to the change in surface finish, but it is by way of a 'sonic' enhancement.
With similar respect to that which I showed when I first commented on this thread, whether you have worked even as a rocket scientist, or whatever, and irrespective of any relevant or irrelevant patents which may have been granted to you, these matters are simply not in dispute, They work!!!😱
Forty years ago, amongst other things, I studied metallurgy, so I also know a little about surface treatments of metals and dendrite corrosive effects and 'growths' etc., but I don't need to think back to those times to see for myself if some wire is tarnished by oxidation or not, as it is so plain to anyone's eyes to see. It goes black! 😡
As a final comment on silver wires which someone mentioned earlier, the reason why any 'tarnish' on silver is generally less harmful to the sound of the wires, is what happens with silver (in a normal domestic environment) is that mainly silver sulphide forms rather than silver oxide, and silver sulphide is a good conductor, whereas silver oxide (like copper oxide) is not.
Regards,
THE INDUSTRY.
Hi,
Great stuff...you're right about my contact though...salespeople can't be trusted when it comes to engineering.😉
Funny,all in all you seem to be my US counterpart...I did my homework for the Aerospace division in France first before I was asked to design cables for the audio biz.
Shall we?
Or,nah...better not.
Cheers + a good bottle of wine,😉
Hi,
Great stuff...you're right about my contact though...salespeople can't be trusted when it comes to engineering.😉
Funny,all in all you seem to be my US counterpart...I did my homework for the Aerospace division in France first before I was asked to design cables for the audio biz.
Shall we?
Or,nah...better not.
Cheers + a good bottle of wine,😉
WIRE & INSULATION
Hi,
No kidding,the heading is how we started the company.
He,he...how did we make pictures?
Cheers,😉
Hi,
No kidding,the heading is how we started the company.
He,he...how did we make pictures?
Cheers,😉
Frank, I will get through Belgium one of these days. I'm just back from France, and go back again next month- if a side trip North is in the cards (it's possible that I'll be buzzing over to Nijmegen in the Netherlands), I'll drop you a line.
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