Hi Everyone,
I have come to the realization that probably the biggest limitation of my system right now may be my screen. When I built it I wanted to limit my expense and time investment so I built a simple wooden screen and painted it with flat eggshell white latex paint. I am very happy with my results but realize that with each minor modification I have done, the improvement has been significant. I am ready for more.
I have been reading on the various threads everyone's contributions about building a screen. Some opinions conflict. I wanted to poll everyone to learn what the optimum properties of a good screen should be.
Just off the top of my head I can think of a few:
1. Flatness - the flatter the better.
2. Reflectivity - The surface should be reflective. The more reflective the better. This brings up my question. I painted my screen with a FLAT Latex paint. Would a semi-gloss or gloss be better? I assume semi-gloss and gloss are more reflective since they are shinier. Would that create hot spotting? I know that Screen goo is supposed to be the best, but it is kind of expensive.
3. Translucence - Translucence is not desired. I have heard differing opinions on the translucence of Plastex. Some say it is, some say it isn't. Would a backing behind the Plastex prevent that? If the Plastex is mounted directly on a wall shouldn't that prevent light from going through?
4. Screen Color - Depends on what you want. Grey will supposedly give you darker blacks, but I think it alters the other colors. White should give you truer colors but not as dark blacks. Is this right?
5. Material - Wood, Plastex, Blackout Cloth, etc . Shouldn't matter if it is going to be painted.....right? Can plastex be painted? Which gives a better picture, unpainted blackout or unpainted plastex? At least with plastex it can be tacked directly on a wall while with blackout one has to build a frame to stretch it out on.
6. Texture - Is smooth and flat the best? What exactly is matte?
7. Screen paint - Latex, flat, semi-gloss or gloss? Screen goo is supposed to be the ultimate, but kind of expensive. Any comments about screen goo?
Sorry, I know many of these questions have been asked before, I was hoping to get a summary for myself and everyone else to refer to. I have been through the AVS screen forum, but I am still a little confused about some of the properties required for a GREAT screen.
Thanks all
I have come to the realization that probably the biggest limitation of my system right now may be my screen. When I built it I wanted to limit my expense and time investment so I built a simple wooden screen and painted it with flat eggshell white latex paint. I am very happy with my results but realize that with each minor modification I have done, the improvement has been significant. I am ready for more.
I have been reading on the various threads everyone's contributions about building a screen. Some opinions conflict. I wanted to poll everyone to learn what the optimum properties of a good screen should be.
Just off the top of my head I can think of a few:
1. Flatness - the flatter the better.
2. Reflectivity - The surface should be reflective. The more reflective the better. This brings up my question. I painted my screen with a FLAT Latex paint. Would a semi-gloss or gloss be better? I assume semi-gloss and gloss are more reflective since they are shinier. Would that create hot spotting? I know that Screen goo is supposed to be the best, but it is kind of expensive.
3. Translucence - Translucence is not desired. I have heard differing opinions on the translucence of Plastex. Some say it is, some say it isn't. Would a backing behind the Plastex prevent that? If the Plastex is mounted directly on a wall shouldn't that prevent light from going through?
4. Screen Color - Depends on what you want. Grey will supposedly give you darker blacks, but I think it alters the other colors. White should give you truer colors but not as dark blacks. Is this right?
5. Material - Wood, Plastex, Blackout Cloth, etc . Shouldn't matter if it is going to be painted.....right? Can plastex be painted? Which gives a better picture, unpainted blackout or unpainted plastex? At least with plastex it can be tacked directly on a wall while with blackout one has to build a frame to stretch it out on.
6. Texture - Is smooth and flat the best? What exactly is matte?
7. Screen paint - Latex, flat, semi-gloss or gloss? Screen goo is supposed to be the ultimate, but kind of expensive. Any comments about screen goo?
Sorry, I know many of these questions have been asked before, I was hoping to get a summary for myself and everyone else to refer to. I have been through the AVS screen forum, but I am still a little confused about some of the properties required for a GREAT screen.
Thanks all
I've wondered the same things. How can I get a better image from my screen. With so many colors, textures and reflectiveness out there it feels like I have to go through a "trial and error" to find what best works and that can be expensive. Remember that everyone interprets colors differently so what works for one person won't work for another.
I've thought up a way that would help people decide which gray color screen would work best. Print out different shades of gray on some sheets of paper (Fill up the whole page.) Then tape all these sheets of paper to your wall and project onto it. This will show you which gray color will give the best blacks/whites without mudding up the other colors. You can print on regular paper (flat) photo paper (satin?) or photo film (very reflective/ glossy) to get different effects. Then its just a simple process of getting the color made at a paint shop and painting your screen.
Try it out. I think this is the best way to see what color works best and you wont spend $100's in different fabrics.
Worked for me!
ap0the0sis
I've thought up a way that would help people decide which gray color screen would work best. Print out different shades of gray on some sheets of paper (Fill up the whole page.) Then tape all these sheets of paper to your wall and project onto it. This will show you which gray color will give the best blacks/whites without mudding up the other colors. You can print on regular paper (flat) photo paper (satin?) or photo film (very reflective/ glossy) to get different effects. Then its just a simple process of getting the color made at a paint shop and painting your screen.
Try it out. I think this is the best way to see what color works best and you wont spend $100's in different fabrics.
Worked for me!
ap0the0sis
Screens
OK here's a bit on screens for you all:
What are they made of - the good ones have tiny particles of glass gluded onto a backing material, the really really expensive ones used to have a coting of asbestos (but I very much doubt that you can still get hold of these).
Reflection ration and viewing angle:
Higher reflection is obviousley important, however there is a trade off, higher reflection means a smaller viewing angle, although if you have a small room this will not make much of a defference a larger room will require a screen which has a slightley lower reflection ration and thus a wider angle of viewing. When I say a wider angle of viewing, what I mean is that the brightness and clarity does not decrease when you move off the screens axis. There are complex equations you can use to work out the ideal reflection ration for a screen, but these only necessary if you are a cinema or intend to have a custom screen made for you by a professional firm. Expensive screens, on close inspection are actualy not flat at all, in fact they have a tectured surface.
Can you build a screen:
Well yes and no, of course you can build a simple screen from a sheet or painted wall but the image will never look as good as a real screen. If you want a screen which will look very good (most people do not realise how much of difference a proper screen makes) then I'm affraid you must buy one. But never fear, have a look on eBay, you can pick up some very cheap ones for under $30 and looking at some posts that's less than some people have spent on paint alone. It is easy to mount a floor standing screen on a wall, simple DIY is all that's required. Now here is the only slight prob: Many of the screens on eBay are designed to be used with 35mm slide projectors and are therefor not always that wide, often only up to 4 feet. However (reason unknown to me) many of these screens although only about 4 feet wide, are much higher than 4 feet when fully rooled out (in other words they are a rectangle, with the shortist side on the horizontal), There would be no reason why you could not take appart the screen, rotate in 90 degrees and fix it to a wooden frame so you end up with a wider screen. In fact I know someone who did this, though he uses it to project slides onto, not video. So if you do buy a screen from eBay here are some tips for you:
1) obviuslsey ask how wide the screen is, and how high the screen is (this is with regard to the screen material not the enclosure size!!)
2) ask if there are any marks on the screen! It is possible to clean them but you are meant to use special cleaner!
3) ask if the screen has any crease marks where it has been rolled up badley - but this may not be a problem if you are going to fix it onto a homemade frame for you could pull it taught.
4) don't pay too much money - you wont need to - rememer most of the screens that you buy on eBay were when new very expensive, in a lot of proper home cinema setups that have projectors the screen is often more expensive than the projector and audio equiptment put together, especially if it is acoustically transparant (in otherwords you can have speakers behind it and the sound can pass through with out obstruction) so buying from eBay you will be saving yourself a lot of money.
So good luck to everyone who tries to make a screen, but do yourself a favour and buy one from eBay - you could end up saving yourself some money and ending up with a wonderful screen.
OK here's a bit on screens for you all:
What are they made of - the good ones have tiny particles of glass gluded onto a backing material, the really really expensive ones used to have a coting of asbestos (but I very much doubt that you can still get hold of these).
Reflection ration and viewing angle:
Higher reflection is obviousley important, however there is a trade off, higher reflection means a smaller viewing angle, although if you have a small room this will not make much of a defference a larger room will require a screen which has a slightley lower reflection ration and thus a wider angle of viewing. When I say a wider angle of viewing, what I mean is that the brightness and clarity does not decrease when you move off the screens axis. There are complex equations you can use to work out the ideal reflection ration for a screen, but these only necessary if you are a cinema or intend to have a custom screen made for you by a professional firm. Expensive screens, on close inspection are actualy not flat at all, in fact they have a tectured surface.
Can you build a screen:
Well yes and no, of course you can build a simple screen from a sheet or painted wall but the image will never look as good as a real screen. If you want a screen which will look very good (most people do not realise how much of difference a proper screen makes) then I'm affraid you must buy one. But never fear, have a look on eBay, you can pick up some very cheap ones for under $30 and looking at some posts that's less than some people have spent on paint alone. It is easy to mount a floor standing screen on a wall, simple DIY is all that's required. Now here is the only slight prob: Many of the screens on eBay are designed to be used with 35mm slide projectors and are therefor not always that wide, often only up to 4 feet. However (reason unknown to me) many of these screens although only about 4 feet wide, are much higher than 4 feet when fully rooled out (in other words they are a rectangle, with the shortist side on the horizontal), There would be no reason why you could not take appart the screen, rotate in 90 degrees and fix it to a wooden frame so you end up with a wider screen. In fact I know someone who did this, though he uses it to project slides onto, not video. So if you do buy a screen from eBay here are some tips for you:
1) obviuslsey ask how wide the screen is, and how high the screen is (this is with regard to the screen material not the enclosure size!!)
2) ask if there are any marks on the screen! It is possible to clean them but you are meant to use special cleaner!
3) ask if the screen has any crease marks where it has been rolled up badley - but this may not be a problem if you are going to fix it onto a homemade frame for you could pull it taught.
4) don't pay too much money - you wont need to - rememer most of the screens that you buy on eBay were when new very expensive, in a lot of proper home cinema setups that have projectors the screen is often more expensive than the projector and audio equiptment put together, especially if it is acoustically transparant (in otherwords you can have speakers behind it and the sound can pass through with out obstruction) so buying from eBay you will be saving yourself a lot of money.
So good luck to everyone who tries to make a screen, but do yourself a favour and buy one from eBay - you could end up saving yourself some money and ending up with a wonderful screen.
screen info
for serious information, use this link.
http://www.hometheatervillage.com/guides/Screen_Guide-72.pdf
If you need a hard copy and you don't want to print out ( 72 ) pages, send me an email.
I got all the info i needed out of this document.
Good Luck.
for serious information, use this link.
http://www.hometheatervillage.com/guides/Screen_Guide-72.pdf
If you need a hard copy and you don't want to print out ( 72 ) pages, send me an email.
I got all the info i needed out of this document.
Good Luck.
Hi, thanks for the info. I couldn't get the link to work. Could you please email me the document? Parkandsusan@yahoo.com.
Thanks,
Park
Thanks,
Park
Ideas for my new screen.
Obviously, expense is a big factor, otherwise I probably wouldn't be doing this project. I know I want to build a new screen (a much better one).
Seeing as a panel of 5x8 Plastex costs $26 and shipping and handling is more than $10 (I forget), I was thinking of painting my screen right on the wall and using some of that Screen Goo. The Goo is pretty expensive, but it will probably give me my best working screen. Without the cost of the plastic I could afford to buy the Goo.
I figure to make my screen about 100" diagonal.
Anyone have any experience using their wall as their screen? I mean as a finished product not just for testing out their system.
Are their any links, pictures or documentation on how they prepared their wall?
Any forseeable problems?
Thanks
Obviously, expense is a big factor, otherwise I probably wouldn't be doing this project. I know I want to build a new screen (a much better one).
Seeing as a panel of 5x8 Plastex costs $26 and shipping and handling is more than $10 (I forget), I was thinking of painting my screen right on the wall and using some of that Screen Goo. The Goo is pretty expensive, but it will probably give me my best working screen. Without the cost of the plastic I could afford to buy the Goo.
I figure to make my screen about 100" diagonal.
Anyone have any experience using their wall as their screen? I mean as a finished product not just for testing out their system.
Are their any links, pictures or documentation on how they prepared their wall?
Any forseeable problems?
Thanks
Test Results
I just finished running some tests on my LCD/PHP/Screen system.
I moved my project back to project onto an open wall. The results were very disappointing to me.
Whereas I was pretty happy with my 72 inch diagonal screen, I was not happy at all with what I saw for 100 inches diagonal.
My picture was very washed out and not very sharp.
It was around 10:00 am. Even with my my blackout covered window the room (same room as I usually have my system) did not seem very dark at all. I wonder if that is because I am throwing the light so far across the room and it is scattering and making the room lighter. I'll try again tonight in total darkness.
My wall is painted flat ultra pure white (but faded).
I know I can get a TV-3000 line doubler to improve the resolution, but I don't know if there's anything I can do about the brightness of my image.
My original plan is to paint the wall with screen goo, but I am afraid even that my not help enough. Does anyone think it would significantly improve my image's brightness?
At this point I don't think it is an option to get a brighter OHP. Is it possible to get a brighter bulb? I am currently using a 410 W FXL. I'm not ready to try any complicated retrofits....someday
So far it looks like I'll be setting for 72".
If i was to rank some different screen materials in terms of picture quality from worst to best would this be correct:?
1. Plain wall or material (drywall, painted flat white)
2. Plain wall or material painted semigloss white.
3. Blackout cloth not painted ( I am assuming the vinyl side has some reflectivity)
4. Plastex
5. Material painted with Screen Goo.
For my test, I am currently using #2. If I go with Screen Goo, will my picture be significantly brighter?
Does anyone have an opinion on what the gains would be comparing Screen Goo (rolled, not the High Gain stuff) and just a plain white wall?
I am pretty discouraged at this point.
Thanks everyone.
I just finished running some tests on my LCD/PHP/Screen system.
I moved my project back to project onto an open wall. The results were very disappointing to me.
Whereas I was pretty happy with my 72 inch diagonal screen, I was not happy at all with what I saw for 100 inches diagonal.
My picture was very washed out and not very sharp.
It was around 10:00 am. Even with my my blackout covered window the room (same room as I usually have my system) did not seem very dark at all. I wonder if that is because I am throwing the light so far across the room and it is scattering and making the room lighter. I'll try again tonight in total darkness.
My wall is painted flat ultra pure white (but faded).
I know I can get a TV-3000 line doubler to improve the resolution, but I don't know if there's anything I can do about the brightness of my image.
My original plan is to paint the wall with screen goo, but I am afraid even that my not help enough. Does anyone think it would significantly improve my image's brightness?
At this point I don't think it is an option to get a brighter OHP. Is it possible to get a brighter bulb? I am currently using a 410 W FXL. I'm not ready to try any complicated retrofits....someday
So far it looks like I'll be setting for 72".
If i was to rank some different screen materials in terms of picture quality from worst to best would this be correct:?
1. Plain wall or material (drywall, painted flat white)
2. Plain wall or material painted semigloss white.
3. Blackout cloth not painted ( I am assuming the vinyl side has some reflectivity)
4. Plastex
5. Material painted with Screen Goo.
For my test, I am currently using #2. If I go with Screen Goo, will my picture be significantly brighter?
Does anyone have an opinion on what the gains would be comparing Screen Goo (rolled, not the High Gain stuff) and just a plain white wall?
I am pretty discouraged at this point.
Thanks everyone.
Not sure if the plastic is the same stuff that I will be talking about, but...
Check out lowes or home depot for some material from parkland plastics Should be rite up your alley.
Check out lowes or home depot for some material from parkland plastics Should be rite up your alley.
oops
i could try but the doc is 72 pages long.
the site was out till a few hours ago.
try again ....... believe me it is worth it, the most comprehensive study i have seen in a long time, and different creens are compared and informed about.
J-P
rydad said:
i could try but the doc is 72 pages long.
the site was out till a few hours ago.
try again ....... believe me it is worth it, the most comprehensive study i have seen in a long time, and different creens are compared and informed about.
J-P
More screen tests
Good Morning All,
I did some more testing last night on the 100 inch screen size for my system. As you may recall, I was testing moving my projection system back farther from the wall so I could have a larger image. My initial tests done in the morning were disappointing.
But when I tried again at night in a totally dark room, it was much better. The projector still lights up the room with scattered light, but the ambient light was gone so the image on the wall was much brighter. Obviously not as bright as on my 72 " screen.
Projecting onto my white wall, instead of my grey screen, the colors were truer although as expected the blacks were not as dark.
I definitely will need to get a line doubler as the resolution was not as good since the screen door affect was magnified and small images were not as sharp.
My plan is to buy a TV-3000. If I can find a good used one for around $50 or less I would be happy. Then paint my wall with Screen goo. I don't think I will need to go the Plastex route, since the wall seemed to work pretty well.
I'm wondering also if I can find a bulb greater than 410 W for my projector and if the projector can handle it.
But I figure just the improvement in gain from the screen goo will be significant. From reading the article linked earlier, if I assume my painted wall has a gain of 1 or less, then if the screen goo can give me a 1.5 gain then that is a 50% improvement in my screen brightness. That should be significant.
Then if I further reduce the light leakage from the projector, that should help more.
I am enthused again.....
thanks everyone for sharing so much info with me and everyone else.
Park
Good Morning All,
I did some more testing last night on the 100 inch screen size for my system. As you may recall, I was testing moving my projection system back farther from the wall so I could have a larger image. My initial tests done in the morning were disappointing.
But when I tried again at night in a totally dark room, it was much better. The projector still lights up the room with scattered light, but the ambient light was gone so the image on the wall was much brighter. Obviously not as bright as on my 72 " screen.
Projecting onto my white wall, instead of my grey screen, the colors were truer although as expected the blacks were not as dark.
I definitely will need to get a line doubler as the resolution was not as good since the screen door affect was magnified and small images were not as sharp.
My plan is to buy a TV-3000. If I can find a good used one for around $50 or less I would be happy. Then paint my wall with Screen goo. I don't think I will need to go the Plastex route, since the wall seemed to work pretty well.
I'm wondering also if I can find a bulb greater than 410 W for my projector and if the projector can handle it.
But I figure just the improvement in gain from the screen goo will be significant. From reading the article linked earlier, if I assume my painted wall has a gain of 1 or less, then if the screen goo can give me a 1.5 gain then that is a 50% improvement in my screen brightness. That should be significant.
Then if I further reduce the light leakage from the projector, that should help more.
I am enthused again.....
thanks everyone for sharing so much info with me and everyone else.
Park
While researching the silver screen concept, I found this interesting summary on the effects of different screen colors and finishes.
http://www.projectionscreens.com.au/screen_materials.htm
What do you think of a white screen with a pearlescent additive sprayed onto it?
http://www.projectionscreens.com.au/screen_materials.htm
What do you think of a white screen with a pearlescent additive sprayed onto it?
Plastex versus drywall painted white
Hi everyone,
I kind of posted this question on another thread, so please forgive me for being redundant.
Now that I have my 100+ inch system set up, I was thinking of again trying to improve upon my screen.
I am projecting onto a wall that is painted white. It's actually only Behr Primer white, not even ultra pure white. While I am pretty happy with my results, I feel I could definitely do better with just a minor amount of capital investment.
Could some of you share with me your opinions of whether a Plastex screen would give me a significantly brighter image than my wall?
I think I would be willing to invest in a Plastex sheet (5 x 8). The screen goo idea was too expensive ($130)
I will continue to update my website as I make more improvements.
Thanks
Hi everyone,
I kind of posted this question on another thread, so please forgive me for being redundant.
Now that I have my 100+ inch system set up, I was thinking of again trying to improve upon my screen.
I am projecting onto a wall that is painted white. It's actually only Behr Primer white, not even ultra pure white. While I am pretty happy with my results, I feel I could definitely do better with just a minor amount of capital investment.
Could some of you share with me your opinions of whether a Plastex screen would give me a significantly brighter image than my wall?
I think I would be willing to invest in a Plastex sheet (5 x 8). The screen goo idea was too expensive ($130)
I will continue to update my website as I make more improvements.
Thanks
Attachments
Trust me on this..
Go to the local "sail loft" and ask for a sample of Dacron Sail cloth...get as big a piece of scrap as they will give you. Stretch it tight and pin it up on your projection surface. You will like what you see. If you need a larger screen than is allowable to "one piece" it a proper seam can be sewn into it to join two pieces, once stretched onto a frame and projected on the seam becomes invisable. No risk involved in getting a piece of scrap right? It's gotta be new material tho...don't try it with a used sail (you see all the stains from that day you got "goose poop" on it when you where in a hurry at dockside)
zardoz
Go to the local "sail loft" and ask for a sample of Dacron Sail cloth...get as big a piece of scrap as they will give you. Stretch it tight and pin it up on your projection surface. You will like what you see. If you need a larger screen than is allowable to "one piece" it a proper seam can be sewn into it to join two pieces, once stretched onto a frame and projected on the seam becomes invisable. No risk involved in getting a piece of scrap right? It's gotta be new material tho...don't try it with a used sail (you see all the stains from that day you got "goose poop" on it when you where in a hurry at dockside)
zardoz
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