Hey guys, I've been researching a small but not tiny, two way enclosure with really low volume, and I've worked out I think, that this Scanspeak 10cm Wideband, 10F/4424G00 will be perfect in a sealed enclosure of 0.4 liters / 400cc for a QTC of 0.707 ... I'm trying to just double check my work because I don't trust myself... does anyone think that this will be a bad solution?
Ran it through 3 different calculators, and it seems o.k. But I'm still not 100% sure.
Ran it through 3 different calculators, and it seems o.k. But I'm still not 100% sure.
Yep, size is ok, but you will get basically nothing down low with that tiny xmax.
Planning on using a sub?
Planning on using a sub?
You calculation is right, but...
With F3 not getting close to 200 Hz, you'll have no bass and be missing much of the lower midrange. Given that this is an excellent mid-tweeter adding a tweeter imbalances things further an drastically complicates with the addition of an XO.
I have the 8 ohm version of this, it is good sounding as far as it goes. Expensive thou. And out-performed IMO all round by things like the Fostex FF85wk (althou needs a slightly bigger box).
dave
With F3 not getting close to 200 Hz, you'll have no bass and be missing much of the lower midrange. Given that this is an excellent mid-tweeter adding a tweeter imbalances things further an drastically complicates with the addition of an XO.
I have the 8 ohm version of this, it is good sounding as far as it goes. Expensive thou. And out-performed IMO all round by things like the Fostex FF85wk (althou needs a slightly bigger box).
dave
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Ahh darn. My aim is to find a perfect bass/mid driver for a considerably small enclosure. I want it to be as wide range as it can possibly be without a sub, and I'd prefer a tweeter due to the actual cabinets plans... it's more of an artistic center-piece, but I want the audio to be amazing... not just some drivers thrown into something that looks amazing. So it's taking me a while to get it all together.
I have been looking at the QTS of all the speakers as a guide using this ... QTS parameters How to Pick the Right speaker for your Speaker Cabinets ... to work out which to use in a low volume. But I think I might be off somewhere... so the QTS should be 0.29 for a small sealed enclosure... but do I need to make sure the XMax is larger so it can actually throw some bass out?
You really need to define the F3, or the Fs for your application. 40Hz with 6lt is imo much better than 100Hz with 0.5lt. Paul Carmody has some designs that may interest you.
How about bigger woofer (around 6") with high Qts and small magnet. To compensate for the bigger driver, put it in open baffle or H-frame....(so you have equal speaker size). For nearfield listening you will get lower notes because bigger drivers have lower Fs.
Yeah, I've made speakers a lot before, I just always double check everything around here because my budget is retarded. haha. If I get something wrong it'll be stupid.
The design of the cabinet is fixed... the size is not fixed, but the design is generally fixed. It has to be closed and small volume, I can go a bit larger, but I'm sticking to 4 inch maximum for now. It's not being constructed to be a speaker as such. It's more an art piece, with a speaker in it. So I need to stay low volume. It has to be around 4 inch to fit into what I'm planning, but I wanted it to be an amazing speaker as well, if I could. If it needs a sub some time down the track that's fine, but for now I'd like it to be just really small desktop reference level monitor kind of deal.
The F3 didn't really seem to concern me, the accuracy and performance of the speakers was more important, but if these drivers I had already picked are too mid-range for the job, I am still looking for a driver. 🙁 I'd prefer an F3 of around 100hz. But if I can't get that in a small enclosure. ... I'll have to go higher, and include a sub. I did notice the high F3 of around 200hz for these drivers... arrgh.
The design of the cabinet is fixed... the size is not fixed, but the design is generally fixed. It has to be closed and small volume, I can go a bit larger, but I'm sticking to 4 inch maximum for now. It's not being constructed to be a speaker as such. It's more an art piece, with a speaker in it. So I need to stay low volume. It has to be around 4 inch to fit into what I'm planning, but I wanted it to be an amazing speaker as well, if I could. If it needs a sub some time down the track that's fine, but for now I'd like it to be just really small desktop reference level monitor kind of deal.
The F3 didn't really seem to concern me, the accuracy and performance of the speakers was more important, but if these drivers I had already picked are too mid-range for the job, I am still looking for a driver. 🙁 I'd prefer an F3 of around 100hz. But if I can't get that in a small enclosure. ... I'll have to go higher, and include a sub. I did notice the high F3 of around 200hz for these drivers... arrgh.
Vifa XT19 without a frame would be nice for a mini 2-way..., xo around 4kHz.
SS10 is a lousy performer down low. It is a challenge to find a really capable midwoofer in 4" class. Perhaps this as a compromise http://www.lautsprechershop.de/pdf/tangband/w4_1337sa.pdf
If you can go to 5" (120-125mm) things get easier, but box size will grow http://www.scan-speak.dk/datasheet/pdf/12w-4524g00.pdf or you wont get any lower...
If you use it nearfield, how about coaxial 120mm SEAS H1602-04/06 L12RE/XFC
SS10 is a lousy performer down low. It is a challenge to find a really capable midwoofer in 4" class. Perhaps this as a compromise http://www.lautsprechershop.de/pdf/tangband/w4_1337sa.pdf
If you can go to 5" (120-125mm) things get easier, but box size will grow http://www.scan-speak.dk/datasheet/pdf/12w-4524g00.pdf or you wont get any lower...
If you use it nearfield, how about coaxial 120mm SEAS H1602-04/06 L12RE/XFC
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Well it needs to be a midrange/tweeter arrangement because of the cabinet that I have modeled, and the area that I have provisioned for a tweeter... It's not being constructed from wood... it's a highly elaborate model that I've been working on for ages and will be printed with a 3D Printer. ... So it must fit the whole smaller sized mid/woofer with a tweeter plan ... the smaller the better. I can build a sub into the power for it all later once I get these perfected.
250/300hz to 20khz is fine. At the moment it's 0.6 litre. 12cm wide, 12cm high ... the entire enclosure! I have not modeled the tweeter area yet, ... but it has been planned and necessary to my ridiculous idea. 🙂
250/300hz to 20khz is fine. At the moment it's 0.6 litre. 12cm wide, 12cm high ... the entire enclosure! I have not modeled the tweeter area yet, ... but it has been planned and necessary to my ridiculous idea. 🙂
In your situation, I might think less about it sounding good than it sounding good enough.
The Madisound Speaker Store
Dayton Audio ND91-8 3-1/2" Aluminum Cone Full-Range Driver 8 290-226
Quality on these is good, perhaps even very good, but certainly not outstanding. F3 though in about .5L sealed is closer to 100Hz, so you'll get something approaching a full range sound which will sound much better than an F3 an octave or 2 higher.
The Madisound Speaker Store
Dayton Audio ND91-8 3-1/2" Aluminum Cone Full-Range Driver 8 290-226
Quality on these is good, perhaps even very good, but certainly not outstanding. F3 though in about .5L sealed is closer to 100Hz, so you'll get something approaching a full range sound which will sound much better than an F3 an octave or 2 higher.
I do want the entire thing to sound amazing, but at the same time I'm trying to limit it to fit into a preexisting idea... like anyone else would really, I need to make sure the entire thing is perfect, construction and sound. I can go to a larger size slightly, maybe 5" ... But for the 3D Printing restrictions, I have a set limit on the cabinet dimensions.
340x240x170mm AND x+y+z<=400mm That's my limits.
So ... it's kind of a small area to work with, but should be possible. Somehow. If I can go 5" then still keep the volume low, and pack it like crazy to make it seem larger, and port it, ... might be a plan?
Even after I'm done, I might spend weeks working on the design, then come up with a dimension that is larger than 400mm, in the x+y+z directions. 🙁
I have chosen ... for size constraints, the Vifa OX20SC00-04 ... so if I can find a decent 5" to match, and fit it within the constraints... it would be perfect.
As soon as I have finished a decent render of the exported model, I'll put it up here so you can see my intentions.
As soon as I have finished a decent render of the exported model, I'll put it up here so you can see my intentions.
How about this Tangband?
Tang Band W4-1658SB 4" Midbass Driver 264-878
I used it with the Vifa OT19, the ring radiator brother to your OX20, but mine was in a small waveguide. This was the speaker:
MWAF under $200 winner: The Chameleon's
Tang Band W4-1658SB 4" Midbass Driver 264-878
I used it with the Vifa OT19, the ring radiator brother to your OX20, but mine was in a small waveguide. This was the speaker:
MWAF under $200 winner: The Chameleon's
Sorry, I'm confused.
What is the internal volume range you are looking at? Your 1st post says .4L but then above you mention going up to 340x240x170mm, so about 14L. That's a pretty big difference.
What is the internal volume range you are looking at? Your 1st post says .4L but then above you mention going up to 340x240x170mm, so about 14L. That's a pretty big difference.
oh no... those dimensions are the maximum available dimensions I have to work with ... because I am having the object printed in Ceramics in a 3D Printer. The entire dimension adding X, Y and Z must not exceed 400mm. So I have around .6 liter maximum to work with, if I make it round/egg shaped, and keep it within the bounds of the guidelines.
I have just been looking at the Mark Audio Alpair 7 Gen 3. And it seems to be giving me measurements that might suit this project... if I pack the walls with a bitumen and stuff the enclosure with heavy fill, it will be around what you would consider 1 liter? Because of the heavy reflection of Ceramic? Or do I have this back to front... ?
I have just been looking at the Mark Audio Alpair 7 Gen 3. And it seems to be giving me measurements that might suit this project... if I pack the walls with a bitumen and stuff the enclosure with heavy fill, it will be around what you would consider 1 liter? Because of the heavy reflection of Ceramic? Or do I have this back to front... ?
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