Hello,
I have been going through the threads here for quite some time. I really like the sound of single driver speakers and after going through the discussions here, I am pretty sure the Sachiko would suit my taste just fine and thinking of going for one...
but the problem is I'm a complete n00b, haven't done much DIY except for changing light bulbs 🙄 ...leave along building speakers...or working with wood.
would you advise a rank newbie like me to go for Sachiko as his first build? you can talk me out of it if you think its too much for a raw hand. What should I keep in mind if at all I go ahead? I just have two points in my list as of now -
1. Use 19mm ply
2. Stick to the dimensions in the plan
...thats about it...not much idea on mounting the driver, damping the insides, wiring etc...
I'm in touch with quadtech and mymindinside from this forum who have built Sachiko's in the recent past. They are very encouraging and helpful but additional advise has never hurt anyone 🙂 Any help would be really appreciated.
Thanks in advance!
PS - I am in India, so buying a kit and shipping home is not a viable option.
I have been going through the threads here for quite some time. I really like the sound of single driver speakers and after going through the discussions here, I am pretty sure the Sachiko would suit my taste just fine and thinking of going for one...
but the problem is I'm a complete n00b, haven't done much DIY except for changing light bulbs 🙄 ...leave along building speakers...or working with wood.
would you advise a rank newbie like me to go for Sachiko as his first build? you can talk me out of it if you think its too much for a raw hand. What should I keep in mind if at all I go ahead? I just have two points in my list as of now -
1. Use 19mm ply
2. Stick to the dimensions in the plan
...thats about it...not much idea on mounting the driver, damping the insides, wiring etc...
I'm in touch with quadtech and mymindinside from this forum who have built Sachiko's in the recent past. They are very encouraging and helpful but additional advise has never hurt anyone 🙂 Any help would be really appreciated.
Thanks in advance!
PS - I am in India, so buying a kit and shipping home is not a viable option.
With its all 90 degree cuts, Sachiko is designed to be easier to make... there are just lots of pieces. If you are methodical & can get the pieces well cut it isn't that hard (you do need to have a workspace large enuff to accomodate them, they are not small).
Keep us posted with your progress and don't be afraid to ask questions.
dave
Keep us posted with your progress and don't be afraid to ask questions.
dave
Thanks planet10! its a big boost, coming straight from you...
They would be placed in my living room which is about 14x29x9 (feet) in dimension a foyer of 5x6...I would keep them against the shorter wall (14 ft.). Is that big enough for them? My apartment is still being built, so I have a lot of working space 🙂
I had one question on the deflectors...is there a big difference in sound between the stepped and the slanted deflectors? I remember reading something about high and mid frequency attenuation and tightening of bass in the stepped version (can't locate the thread now). I could save on a sheet by going for the alternate design.
Can I use a different material for the steps?
They would be placed in my living room which is about 14x29x9 (feet) in dimension a foyer of 5x6...I would keep them against the shorter wall (14 ft.). Is that big enough for them? My apartment is still being built, so I have a lot of working space 🙂
I had one question on the deflectors...is there a big difference in sound between the stepped and the slanted deflectors? I remember reading something about high and mid frequency attenuation and tightening of bass in the stepped version (can't locate the thread now). I could save on a sheet by going for the alternate design.
Can I use a different material for the steps?
No one has done a direct comparison of the stepped vrs slanted variations. In theory the stepped version could help mitigate the HF, but my feeling is that by that point any HF that it might mitigate have already been wiped out by the many stepper LP filters that preceed it in the horn.
The steps also provide some mass loading of the side panels, but that can be accomplished with kitty litter too. When i convince Chris it is time to build ours they will likely have the steps at the bottom and the slant at the top, with the void behind it removed.
dave
The steps also provide some mass loading of the side panels, but that can be accomplished with kitty litter too. When i convince Chris it is time to build ours they will likely have the steps at the bottom and the slant at the top, with the void behind it removed.
dave
I live in Trinidad, I built a pair and am happy with them, more so after I put in phase plugs.
Its best you find a woodworker who has a good table saw which is capable of cutting clean square edges and just have him rip the ply sheets lengthwise into the widths for all the internal sections. This way you only need to make 90 cuts yourself to cut the internal pieces(with a circular saw) and makes things very easy.
Make a few 90/square jigs to help you hold the pieces square/vertical whilst they dry.
Its best you find a woodworker who has a good table saw which is capable of cutting clean square edges and just have him rip the ply sheets lengthwise into the widths for all the internal sections. This way you only need to make 90 cuts yourself to cut the internal pieces(with a circular saw) and makes things very easy.
Make a few 90/square jigs to help you hold the pieces square/vertical whilst they dry.
What plywood did you use?
The plywood distributor here can't buy any American made plywood from their supplier. It might be that I cannot get maple hard wood plywood with 12-15 layers. So far, the best I can find is 5X5 Baltic Birch.
Best from Tucson
Bob
The plywood distributor here can't buy any American made plywood from their supplier. It might be that I cannot get maple hard wood plywood with 12-15 layers. So far, the best I can find is 5X5 Baltic Birch.
Best from Tucson
Bob
Thanks for the info.
I stopped by HomeDepot and discovered they have a wider selection than Lowes, including 4x8 Maple around 11 ply and 4x8 Birch around 11 ply for the 3/4 inch.
Best
Bob
I stopped by HomeDepot and discovered they have a wider selection than Lowes, including 4x8 Maple around 11 ply and 4x8 Birch around 11 ply for the 3/4 inch.
Best
Bob
i'm currently using home depot 4x8 maple ply to build a cabinet for a marble sink top i picked up and can tell you i'm not finding voids. what i'm cutting with my blades is very clean compared to the uncut 4x8's ends.
the birch ply at lowes looks better than at hd but i haven't cut one up so don't know how void free it is. i'd go with the maple, based on what i'm getting with the 3/4" 4x8 maple ply.
the birch ply at lowes looks better than at hd but i haven't cut one up so don't know how void free it is. i'd go with the maple, based on what i'm getting with the 3/4" 4x8 maple ply.
Sachiko or BIB?
much as I love to have a pair of sachikos in front of me, I am compelled to consider BIB as an alternative...reason - WAF 🙁
My room dimension is 12 x 29 x 9 and I have one wall to place all my stuff. That includes the TV, HT front & center, my stereo spkrs and my equipment without 'spoiling' the aesthetics of the place 🙁
The advantage of BIB would be they can be placed right at the corner leaving enough space to 'aesthetically' arrange the rest of my stuff...😛
now, for a few questions -
Is BIB a good design for FE206?
My choice of music is mostly prog rock and jazz, would the BIB be suitable for that?
Has anybody experienced both builds with 206? Did you note any major difference in the sound?
I would be seated 11 feet from the equipment wall. Does this distance work with BIB?
Are there other designs that could work?
cheerz!
much as I love to have a pair of sachikos in front of me, I am compelled to consider BIB as an alternative...reason - WAF 🙁
My room dimension is 12 x 29 x 9 and I have one wall to place all my stuff. That includes the TV, HT front & center, my stereo spkrs and my equipment without 'spoiling' the aesthetics of the place 🙁
The advantage of BIB would be they can be placed right at the corner leaving enough space to 'aesthetically' arrange the rest of my stuff...😛
now, for a few questions -
Is BIB a good design for FE206?
My choice of music is mostly prog rock and jazz, would the BIB be suitable for that?
Has anybody experienced both builds with 206? Did you note any major difference in the sound?
I would be seated 11 feet from the equipment wall. Does this distance work with BIB?
Are there other designs that could work?
cheerz!
As much as I love the BiB, a well-engineered BLH is another level of performance in my limited experience. More engineering == better performance.
My BiB's go very low, like a pipe organ, but the bass is not really punchy. On some songs, it is "thunderous" but still, not visceral like an Altec VOTT which will punch you in the gut. I love them, but I would expect that the Sachiko's are in a whole different league. I can only compare the BiB's to the Austins, and while the BiB's can go lower at times, the bass on the Austins is overall definitely more clear and to me, better. But the BiB's have plenty of good qualities.
To extract the most from a BiB would require simulation in MJK's new BiB worksheet that accounts for corners and ceilings. It's still not clear to me, though, that the bass would ever get that "punchy" quality for prog rock. But I'm not discouraging you because I've had a lot of fun with my BiB's so far.
My BiB's go very low, like a pipe organ, but the bass is not really punchy. On some songs, it is "thunderous" but still, not visceral like an Altec VOTT which will punch you in the gut. I love them, but I would expect that the Sachiko's are in a whole different league. I can only compare the BiB's to the Austins, and while the BiB's can go lower at times, the bass on the Austins is overall definitely more clear and to me, better. But the BiB's have plenty of good qualities.
To extract the most from a BiB would require simulation in MJK's new BiB worksheet that accounts for corners and ceilings. It's still not clear to me, though, that the bass would ever get that "punchy" quality for prog rock. But I'm not discouraging you because I've had a lot of fun with my BiB's so far.
Thanks...I had the same feeling. Trying to strike the middle path here...
Would you say that BiB's bass is more brooding and tends to hang? How are they with Jazz? for prog maybe I can go back to my Kefs that would be hooked to my HT.
Where can I find MJK's new BiB worksheet? The one I picked up from zillaspeak does not have room dimensions...
cheers!
Would you say that BiB's bass is more brooding and tends to hang? How are they with Jazz? for prog maybe I can go back to my Kefs that would be hooked to my HT.
Where can I find MJK's new BiB worksheet? The one I picked up from zillaspeak does not have room dimensions...
cheers!
I 've built both, here is my sachiko build thread.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/158046-my-sachiko-build.html
BIB goes lower but imaging is not as good as sachiko. I put my sachikos in the corners and they still have better
imaging that BIB. Reason may be because I have a 4x8 ft home made movie screen that is made up of 1" thick high density fiberglass panel on the wall
between the Sachikos. I also have some polyester batting sheets on the walls
next to the sachikos. By moving the Sachiko to the corner, I measure a 10db
boost in the 80-100hz range.
Well, here is a comparison of FR measurment between 2 locations:
a) 1 foot from back wall and 1.5 feet from side wall
b ) in corner slight toe in
the measurement are done using radio shack meter at 11 feet away
and warble tone test CD
away In corner
from corner
Hz Db Db
600 75 74
500 76 70
400 73 70
300 76 73
250 76 74
200hz 82 82
160 83 80
120 76 76
100 72 86
80 76 86
60 71 73
50 72 73
40 69 70
As you can see corner placement produces a 10-14 Db peak at 100-80Hz while
keeping the other measurements from 40-300hz about the same. There is also a
dip of 6 db at 400-500HZ in corner placement with respect to away from corner placement I assume from reflections from wall boundaries. But otherwise the
measurement from 500Hz and up are pretty much the same between the 2
placements. By putting the Sachikos in corner, it helps to even out
the 80-200hz region. Imaging does not suffer too much as I indicated before because of the high density fiberglass panels and other absorbing material
along the walls next to the sachiko to reduce reflections.
Hello...update from me after a long time...
After almost an year, I finally got around building a pair of BiBs. They were a better fit than Sachikos considering the space in our apartment. I still wanna build a pair of them but BiB felt like a safer option for a first-time diy-er.
They finally were completed last week. The listening experience started off on a sorry note...5 minutes into the first song, I noted that the right speaker was only buzzing but no sound. After some anxious moments it came out that the amp was the culprit.
Connected the speakers to Zone B of my Yammy RXV463 AVR and the sessions been quite satisfying. Been throwing all types of music at them for the last 4 days. The bass is taut with a clear midrange. The soundstage is pretty deep though due to the placement of the speakers, it appears to be slightly above your head. I haven't done any measurements but on some songs, I felt the speakers going pretty low. I did feel them struggle a bit while playing some of the more complex sections of Porcupine Tree's Fear of a Blank Planet. Will give them a couple of months to break in before I form an opinion.
Thanks for all your help. Wish you all a great 2011!
Some pics -
After almost an year, I finally got around building a pair of BiBs. They were a better fit than Sachikos considering the space in our apartment. I still wanna build a pair of them but BiB felt like a safer option for a first-time diy-er.
They finally were completed last week. The listening experience started off on a sorry note...5 minutes into the first song, I noted that the right speaker was only buzzing but no sound. After some anxious moments it came out that the amp was the culprit.
Connected the speakers to Zone B of my Yammy RXV463 AVR and the sessions been quite satisfying. Been throwing all types of music at them for the last 4 days. The bass is taut with a clear midrange. The soundstage is pretty deep though due to the placement of the speakers, it appears to be slightly above your head. I haven't done any measurements but on some songs, I felt the speakers going pretty low. I did feel them struggle a bit while playing some of the more complex sections of Porcupine Tree's Fear of a Blank Planet. Will give them a couple of months to break in before I form an opinion.
Thanks for all your help. Wish you all a great 2011!
Some pics -
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