After developing some limited skills in bending wood with the Tasmanian Devil home streamer, I'd like to try next a pair of large bookshelf/small standmounts using bent wood.
This time I'd like to try a rounded triangular prism design which I find just as visually appealing as the rounded rectangle of the home streamer. Speakers in my experience spend a lot of time not being used so it's helpful if they look nice even while asleep. Curves I find relaxing but seem to be rarely used in the commercial world, possibly because of cost/difficulty of construction? As I'm already finding with the home streamer, curves also seem to help rather than hinder good sound. The triangular design has only front and rear on the same plane, bottom and sides are on 3 different planes. Dave has mentioned several times on the forum that BR shape is not important, only volume, so I hope that applies here. This would be a rear-ported design unless anyone has other thoughts.
I've found a few triangular speakers online but they seem to be mainly small corner speakers or floorstanding pyramids. Has anyone tried building something like this? I have no test or measuring equipment other than my ears (and Mac-based simulation software is hard to find), so would like your help in deciding a) whether the shape is viable and if so b) which driver configuration and units to use.
They will be used in a 6m x 5m lounge and I'd like them on cylindrical stands (I'm thinking the tree trunk look!) for all types of music. Good sound stage needed, balanced performance across the spectrum, to be used with an integrated streaming amp such as the Wiiim amp or Bluesound Powernode. Since appearance and geometry is important, the drivers will need to look and work well in a triangular baffle. Colour scheme this time will be black, white and silver, so no gold drivers this time around. Probably an all-white exterior with black, white or silver drivers. Tweeter if used must be robust to prevent finger-poking, so no soft domes unless they have a front grill.
Attached are four ideas: FR, 2-way, 2-way with ribbon tweeter and small 3-way. Would love to hear you thoughts on which one to go with and what drivers to use. WAW or coax could also be an option if they could be made to fit into the shape. The geometry of the standard 2-way currently appeals (best match for the sloping sides) but I'm open to any of them. Driver budget is US$500-700 for the pair (including crossovers if needed). Could go higher for something special. Size can be anything from 12 to 24 inches tall to suit the chosen driver(s) although volume will be about half that of a rectangular box of the same height and footprint. But to me that's worth it to have something that will hopefully bring a smile to everyone who sees and listens to them.
Thanks all.
This time I'd like to try a rounded triangular prism design which I find just as visually appealing as the rounded rectangle of the home streamer. Speakers in my experience spend a lot of time not being used so it's helpful if they look nice even while asleep. Curves I find relaxing but seem to be rarely used in the commercial world, possibly because of cost/difficulty of construction? As I'm already finding with the home streamer, curves also seem to help rather than hinder good sound. The triangular design has only front and rear on the same plane, bottom and sides are on 3 different planes. Dave has mentioned several times on the forum that BR shape is not important, only volume, so I hope that applies here. This would be a rear-ported design unless anyone has other thoughts.
I've found a few triangular speakers online but they seem to be mainly small corner speakers or floorstanding pyramids. Has anyone tried building something like this? I have no test or measuring equipment other than my ears (and Mac-based simulation software is hard to find), so would like your help in deciding a) whether the shape is viable and if so b) which driver configuration and units to use.
They will be used in a 6m x 5m lounge and I'd like them on cylindrical stands (I'm thinking the tree trunk look!) for all types of music. Good sound stage needed, balanced performance across the spectrum, to be used with an integrated streaming amp such as the Wiiim amp or Bluesound Powernode. Since appearance and geometry is important, the drivers will need to look and work well in a triangular baffle. Colour scheme this time will be black, white and silver, so no gold drivers this time around. Probably an all-white exterior with black, white or silver drivers. Tweeter if used must be robust to prevent finger-poking, so no soft domes unless they have a front grill.
Attached are four ideas: FR, 2-way, 2-way with ribbon tweeter and small 3-way. Would love to hear you thoughts on which one to go with and what drivers to use. WAW or coax could also be an option if they could be made to fit into the shape. The geometry of the standard 2-way currently appeals (best match for the sloping sides) but I'm open to any of them. Driver budget is US$500-700 for the pair (including crossovers if needed). Could go higher for something special. Size can be anything from 12 to 24 inches tall to suit the chosen driver(s) although volume will be about half that of a rectangular box of the same height and footprint. But to me that's worth it to have something that will hopefully bring a smile to everyone who sees and listens to them.
Thanks all.
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Hi, yes the shape might or not permit to internal nodes (... that are not bad for themselves) to form but as long as BR is discussed the question is where to place the vent.
Note that all those boxes may be put upside down and don't necessarily need to be elevated at ear height by the means of stands and can be suspended on the ceiling .
Since the choice of drivers and their conjugation via crossover is obscure science I invite you to look at the thousand projects on the net ( like Visaton and cheap trick from Germany) and maybe you may succeed in adapting the design to your taste.
Note that all those boxes may be put upside down and don't necessarily need to be elevated at ear height by the means of stands and can be suspended on the ceiling .
Since the choice of drivers and their conjugation via crossover is obscure science I invite you to look at the thousand projects on the net ( like Visaton and cheap trick from Germany) and maybe you may succeed in adapting the design to your taste.
Wilson Audio's Watt and several of their newer midrange/tweeter sections are similar to your design, just flattened on top instead of coming to as much of a point (and they typically taper the other sides too).
Avalon Acoustics' Osiris is another that is relatively triangular in the top section.
Avalon Acoustics' Osiris is another that is relatively triangular in the top section.
I have looked at many, but the net doesn't allow (meaningful) sound demos of DIY speakers! The joy and frustration of DIY is that you don't get to hear the results until they're finished, so new builders depend a lot on experienced builders for suggestions. For reference my favourite small commercial speakers are the B&W 607 S3 which I have in the study, I love their top end sparkle and fun sound overall. Any thoughts on drivers that might replicate this style of sound in the suggested enclosure shape?
The Wilson's are I think truncated pyramids, as you say like triangular prisms with the top chopped off. Personally I find the look of the prisms more appealing, especially with rounded corners. The Osiris is a beast of a shape I can't put into words, I'm sure they sound gorgeous.
Two sample designs attached, the Figaro and the Pyramid. The first seems to be a design study only and the second uses a racetrack driver.
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The edges had to be rounded on the front, that's the trend. Those are out of style, like the B&W 607 S3 ah ah ah!
Really, it's got to be understood!
Like the rack-ish speaker/amp combo that you created, try to put tube scraps, and tape, in order to make a vanishing baffle profile instead of the abrupt cut
Just to say...
then the analysis of profiles, cavities and volume can be moved inside the box, as well
Really, it's got to be understood!
Like the rack-ish speaker/amp combo that you created, try to put tube scraps, and tape, in order to make a vanishing baffle profile instead of the abrupt cut
Just to say...
then the analysis of profiles, cavities and volume can be moved inside the box, as well
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Thanks for your thoughts on design and current industry trends. Unfortunately I only have the tools and skills to work with wood. With that in mind, any suggestions on drivers?
Check the small SB acoustics projects
There's one that has the plastic $30 midwoofer or the metal basket for 60$, it depends on the application!
There's one that has the plastic $30 midwoofer or the metal basket for 60$, it depends on the application!
Your Tazmanian Devil streamer build would be quite at home in most modern places. I can't help but see your triangle speaker concept at home in a 'Clockwork Orange' themed lounge. Perhaps you might make it into a milk bar! Ultraviolence!
B&W speakers from the past few years have tended to be a bit forward in their presentation and therefore sound quite detailed. I would focus on those aspects. The shape of your enclosure isn't as big a contributor to the overall sound as how you go about tuning the crossover and the basic performance of the drivers.
I like fiberglass cones for a midpoint between paper and very hard metals/carbon fiber/etc. They often provide quite a bit of the detail without breakup as severe as seen in some of the harder cones.
This one is pretty good, but you need to cross over well enough to avoid the breakup region (that big peak at 6 kHz).
Scanspeak 15W/8434G00 Discovery, 5.5"
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.c...anspeak-15w/8434g00-discovery-5.25-midwoofer/
For tweeters, if you want something similar to your B&W's you should probably look for a metal dome with rising response with increasing frequency. I don't have direct experience with this one, but it looks like a decent option:
Dayton Audio RST28A-4 1-1/8"
https://www.parts-express.com/Dayto...-Dome-Tweeter-and-Truncated-Faceplate-275-134
If you cross at around 2.5 kHz you'll probably get a decent rise in response above that. If it's not as lively as you want, you can get some more of that with careful crossover design since the tweeter is more sensitive than the woofer.
If you want to go 3-way, the lower woofer will be more about what kind of enclosure you want to use, how large it is, where it's going to be positioned in the room, sensitivity, etc.
I like fiberglass cones for a midpoint between paper and very hard metals/carbon fiber/etc. They often provide quite a bit of the detail without breakup as severe as seen in some of the harder cones.
This one is pretty good, but you need to cross over well enough to avoid the breakup region (that big peak at 6 kHz).
Scanspeak 15W/8434G00 Discovery, 5.5"
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.c...anspeak-15w/8434g00-discovery-5.25-midwoofer/
For tweeters, if you want something similar to your B&W's you should probably look for a metal dome with rising response with increasing frequency. I don't have direct experience with this one, but it looks like a decent option:
Dayton Audio RST28A-4 1-1/8"
https://www.parts-express.com/Dayto...-Dome-Tweeter-and-Truncated-Faceplate-275-134
If you cross at around 2.5 kHz you'll probably get a decent rise in response above that. If it's not as lively as you want, you can get some more of that with careful crossover design since the tweeter is more sensitive than the woofer.
If you want to go 3-way, the lower woofer will be more about what kind of enclosure you want to use, how large it is, where it's going to be positioned in the room, sensitivity, etc.
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Thanks, good suggestion. The SB Micro-C kit is one option and available locally in Australia. I wonder whether this would have the "B&W" sound that I'm after? My other concern would be the robustness of the soft dome tweeter. Jeff Bagby's Sopranos also use SB drivers in a small vented enclosure.
Thanks, I thought the streamer looked quite contemporary too! Amazing how different shapes conjure up different images in people, I hadn't thought of Clockwork Orange, my first thought with the home streamer was actually Wall-E. But no violence in my lounge I hope, my vision of rounded triangle speakers on cylindrical stands is a calm, two-tree forest! Could even be decorated at Xmas...
Mattstat, thank you for your thoughtful and considered response, this is a great help. I think 2-way is definitely the way to go for a newish builder and it's good to know the triangles won't hinder the sound. I do like your driver suggestions a lot, the fiberglass midwoofer idea is a good one and I hope would not be too dissimilar in sound signature from B&W's "Continuum" cone. The Scanspeak driver you suggest seems to offer a balanced response and a good entry point into the Scanspeak range. I like the the DA tweeter (without truncated faceplate) because it's aluminum and has a protective grille. Both would work well in a white cabinet and both available locally in Australia.
Is there any problem with the woofer being 8 ohms and the tweeter 4ohms? Would a Scanspeak aluminium (or beryllium - if available, used by B&W) tweeter be a better match with this woofer for my target sound character? Has anyone used the Scanspeak/DA combination?
My only concern would be the crossover, this would be my first crossover build, having worked only with FR drivers until now. Happy to build them myself but would you or anyone else possibly be able to help with the XO design? Madisound suggest a 4 litre vented enclosure for the woofer but happy to rely on advice. I will build the enclosures to get the best out of the drivers.
Parts Express have a kit called the DA Wave here which uses that DA tweeter along with a Wavecor woofer. This crossover design is below, but I presume a different design would be needed for the Scanspeak woofer.
Appreciate everyone's ongoing help with this!
Woody
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No, other than needing to design a crossover that is made for that. ScanSpeak also has a 4 ohm version of that midbass. Primary difference being higher voltage sensitivity. I thought the tweeter being significantly more sensitive than the woofer might come in handy, but I was guessing at how much sparkle you're after, and I was waffling on 4 vs 8 ohm.
Most of the ones I looked at had a flatter frequency response. Since I was trying to at least partially get the rising response that seems typical of the recent B&W's with the natural tweeter response, that seemed more important. Though as I said, that could be done in the crossover also.
It's harder to do if you don't have measurement capabilities. Realistically, I think your idea of using the DA-Wave design as a starting point is the most likely to get you somewhere good quickly. I wouldn't even bother with the ScanSpeak woofer. The Wavecore fiberglass woofer likely has similar character. I've used a few different fiberglass cone drivers over the years and they were all pretty nice. The build document for the kit has the full crossover schematic in it also. Adjusting something that's already pretty good is a lot easier than starting from scratch (assuming you want a little more zing once they're up and running).
Someone else may be more comfortable helping you with a full crossover design from a distance though, so if that's interesting to you it may still be an option.
Thanks Mattstat, that all makes good sense. Understood re sensitivity of the tweeter. I've looked at the 'designing your own crossover without measuring equipment' thread and could follow that at a pinch. No need for XO designers to come to the rescue for now, thanks anyway. The DA-Wave kit currently out of stock at PE and could be expensive to post to Australia. In the meantime I'm keen to see what FR driver suggestions come up on the FR forum so have posted there too. Will also search for a local 2-way fiberglass woofer kit. Appreciate your support of newcomers to the hobby!
I wouldn't bother giving assumptions of how a certain sound is formed and which attributes it may have aroused in someone's mind. That's speculating...and that fascination has always worked for keeping people attracted by something mysterious .
So let's start from the beginning: the woofer needs a box because of the back wave bla bla bla. The tweeter needs a crossover network because it works like that, also the woofer.
The crossover circuitation don't need to be inside the box, nor the components to be mounted on a PCB; that's a grade of freedom that a Dyer has. Note that the tweeter doesn't need a box ( the midrange either in a 3 way).
So let's start from the beginning: the woofer needs a box because of the back wave bla bla bla. The tweeter needs a crossover network because it works like that, also the woofer.
The crossover circuitation don't need to be inside the box, nor the components to be mounted on a PCB; that's a grade of freedom that a Dyer has. Note that the tweeter doesn't need a box ( the midrange either in a 3 way).
I was referring to some experiments that one could perform, like Patrick Bateman does sometimes...
Now I cannot find the exact thread where he wraps 1/4 of a tube at the sides of a box, along the lines as this one
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/curved-baffles-lead-to-narrower-beamwidth.339621/
Built in the early 2k. A design i did in the late ‘70s for the Fried H, adapted for (dirt-cheap) drivers.
dave
True, but the woofer and tweeter it uses are in stock. You'd have to get the crossover components together, but that's straightforward enough. I have no idea about shipping or if there's anyone on your continent that distributes those drivers.
Parts list here, if this option becomes interesting in the future.
https://www.parts-express.com/pedocs/manuals/300-7168--da-wave-speaker-kit-manual.pdf
Thanks Dave, truncated pyramids always look a bit sad to me, like someone has taken a chainsaw to the top of Mount Everest!
Thanks Mattstat, the parts list is very helpful and will keep for reference. Seems like the Wavecor fibreglass woofer is not available in Australia (only the paper version), so may have to either ship the parts from PA or revert to the Scanspeak solution which are available locally. Scanspeak would probably work out cheaper after shipping but still needs that DIY XO...
I must say FR's are becoming more appealing by the minute.
Thanks Mattstat, the parts list is very helpful and will keep for reference. Seems like the Wavecor fibreglass woofer is not available in Australia (only the paper version), so may have to either ship the parts from PA or revert to the Scanspeak solution which are available locally. Scanspeak would probably work out cheaper after shipping but still needs that DIY XO...
I must say FR's are becoming more appealing by the minute.