So for people looking to build boomboxes, and other portable speakers.
Why hasn't anyone checked out in-wall speakers as a solution? Woofer/Tweeter/Crossover for usually around $100-$150 for a PAIR.
Wouldn't it seem sensible as they're designed to go into a wall, which almost seems similar to the space in between the front and back of a boombox.
Would it sound horrible? Or do people just want to have more fun picking out the parts they want rather than a pre-made solution.
Let me know!
In-Wall Daytons
Very high SPL In-Wall BIC's
I was thinking about these two.
Why hasn't anyone checked out in-wall speakers as a solution? Woofer/Tweeter/Crossover for usually around $100-$150 for a PAIR.
Wouldn't it seem sensible as they're designed to go into a wall, which almost seems similar to the space in between the front and back of a boombox.
Would it sound horrible? Or do people just want to have more fun picking out the parts they want rather than a pre-made solution.
Let me know!
In-Wall Daytons
Very high SPL In-Wall BIC's
I was thinking about these two.
A lot of the in-wall speakers look really nice. I never checked out those BIC in wall speakers and they look like they have potential. But-
In-wall speakers are designed to work in an infinite baffle. They typically have high Qts, just like car speakers. Furthermore, no consideration is given to baffle stop , since a wall has no real baffle stop.
In other words, they are pretty much just like car speakers, except they are typically 8 ohms and (theoretically anyway) they are designed to work with less room gain.
A clever design for those BIC speakers might be to put them in a large box and apply baffle stop correction in the crossover. You could design the baffle stop to be at the crossover point and then pad the tweeter 3 dB.
Or you could just mount them in the wall and enjoy them the way they were meant to be enjoyed 🙂. Slipping a piece of plywood behind the drywall as a baffle and stuffing the space will help.
In-wall speakers are designed to work in an infinite baffle. They typically have high Qts, just like car speakers. Furthermore, no consideration is given to baffle stop , since a wall has no real baffle stop.
In other words, they are pretty much just like car speakers, except they are typically 8 ohms and (theoretically anyway) they are designed to work with less room gain.
A clever design for those BIC speakers might be to put them in a large box and apply baffle stop correction in the crossover. You could design the baffle stop to be at the crossover point and then pad the tweeter 3 dB.
Or you could just mount them in the wall and enjoy them the way they were meant to be enjoyed 🙂. Slipping a piece of plywood behind the drywall as a baffle and stuffing the space will help.
I hope someone that knows more than me comments. I thought about this many times; it would be nice if you could just slap these in a simple, practical enclosure. But I quickly realized that it is not that simple. If you want a small, practical speaker you pretty much have to roll your own.
Back in the day I built a few pairs of speakers. They were nowhere nearly as precise as what is discussed on this forum. I would typically use sound reinforcement ("pro") drivers. The woofers would typically have very high Qts so the enclosures were BIG, but so was the sound. If you listened at low levels, all their faults became obvious. But as the spl approached 100 dB+ (+++ 😀), the dynamic effect and huge sound brought a grin to everybody's ears.
I did build one pair of "modern" 3-way air suspension speakers on request, but it took a lot to sort them out. They did sound good at low volume and still kicked out the jams when cranked up. They were also about 12 dB less efficient than the other speakers I had built and so in effect were missing that last 12 dB of headroom.
Back in the day I built a few pairs of speakers. They were nowhere nearly as precise as what is discussed on this forum. I would typically use sound reinforcement ("pro") drivers. The woofers would typically have very high Qts so the enclosures were BIG, but so was the sound. If you listened at low levels, all their faults became obvious. But as the spl approached 100 dB+ (+++ 😀), the dynamic effect and huge sound brought a grin to everybody's ears.
I did build one pair of "modern" 3-way air suspension speakers on request, but it took a lot to sort them out. They did sound good at low volume and still kicked out the jams when cranked up. They were also about 12 dB less efficient than the other speakers I had built and so in effect were missing that last 12 dB of headroom.
My instinct is the bigger the better.
If we had Vas we could get a ballpark minimum size. Don't forget that baffle stop is going to dictate enclosure dimensions.
If you had some scrap plywood you could slap together a couple pairs of crude monkey coffins and see how it works. People have done this with car 6 x 9s with satisfying (maybe not hi-fi) results. You can do better than that, though.
I was thinking like two speaker cabinets seperated by a middle section where i would house my battery and amp. Honestly, I'm not looking for the best tuning and crazy hi-fi stuff just want it to sound decent and be somewhat loud.
I tried a woofer tweeter combo and buying a pre-made Xover but I wimped out at the last second cause open air it sounded like ****, so didn't want to chance it. Just seems so annoyingly difficult to make a good match between components and an enclosure that I don't even know the dimensions of yet.
sigh, onward.
I tried a woofer tweeter combo and buying a pre-made Xover but I wimped out at the last second cause open air it sounded like ****, so didn't want to chance it. Just seems so annoyingly difficult to make a good match between components and an enclosure that I don't even know the dimensions of yet.
sigh, onward.
I see, cheap and dirty.
You might get some good results but it would likely fall far short of the potential that could be achieved with those speakers. You could use car speakers and probably get similar results.
You should look at the boominator thread, Lots of tips in there.
You might get some good results but it would likely fall far short of the potential that could be achieved with those speakers. You could use car speakers and probably get similar results.
You should look at the boominator thread, Lots of tips in there.
Yes I've seen both boominator threads. Unfortunately its not the design I'm looking for with the whole front back configuration. I've even spoken with saternus himself and he's told me he would not waste time with an inferior product (any boom box without 4 speakers). I find him knowledgeable, but annoyingly pompous about his design and not wanting anything to do with an original 2 front facing speaker design.
If you want any kind of bass response out of a smaller box, you're going to have to look at some low Q woofers. I think that those BIC speakers could probably make fine speakers with a properly designed box, but that box won't be small.
As enclosures get smaller, you have to juggle parameters like low frequency cutoff, maximum spl output, efficiency, and dynamic compression.
You should post in one of the speaker forums to get more input on the topic.
As enclosures get smaller, you have to juggle parameters like low frequency cutoff, maximum spl output, efficiency, and dynamic compression.
You should post in one of the speaker forums to get more input on the topic.
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Jboogey,
There are some not cheap in-wall speakers that do have enclosures and it is not a simple problem to solve. When you think about it you will realize why most of this is done by professional custom home installation people. The normal distance between wall studs in the US is less than 16" as they are placed 16" on center and the depth behind the drywall will only be 3 5/8" as that is the real dimension of a 2x4 stud. When you look at many speakers you will instantly see that many speakers from the front of the frame to the rear of the magnet assembly will be greater than this distance, so you have to look for a shallow driver to begin with, not a high excursion driver. You end up with a very narrow, shallow and tall enclosure to create any volume in the wall. This is all for a flush mounted speaker of course, if you are willing to live with an enclosure that is not flush with the wall things are much different in that case. If you think about even an enclosure with 1/2" wood thickness you have also just lost 1 more inch of internal inside depth of the flush mounted enclosure. Putting a speaker in a wall with only the drywall as the enclosure will not really be a great idea as drywall really isn't a good damping material and would flex if you made any real bass excursion out or your speakers. I could go on but I would guess by now you are getting the idea of how really difficult it is to make all this work.
There are some not cheap in-wall speakers that do have enclosures and it is not a simple problem to solve. When you think about it you will realize why most of this is done by professional custom home installation people. The normal distance between wall studs in the US is less than 16" as they are placed 16" on center and the depth behind the drywall will only be 3 5/8" as that is the real dimension of a 2x4 stud. When you look at many speakers you will instantly see that many speakers from the front of the frame to the rear of the magnet assembly will be greater than this distance, so you have to look for a shallow driver to begin with, not a high excursion driver. You end up with a very narrow, shallow and tall enclosure to create any volume in the wall. This is all for a flush mounted speaker of course, if you are willing to live with an enclosure that is not flush with the wall things are much different in that case. If you think about even an enclosure with 1/2" wood thickness you have also just lost 1 more inch of internal inside depth of the flush mounted enclosure. Putting a speaker in a wall with only the drywall as the enclosure will not really be a great idea as drywall really isn't a good damping material and would flex if you made any real bass excursion out or your speakers. I could go on but I would guess by now you are getting the idea of how really difficult it is to make all this work.
If you want speakers that work in finite sized boxes, just buy used speakers that are in boxes already. It's not uncommon to find name brand speakers for $5 to $10 a pair at thrift stores and yard sales. That doesn't even pay for shipping to build speakers from scratch.
If you want something that's loud and efficient and has bass, expect it to be more "mobile" than "portable".
If you want something that's loud and efficient and has bass, expect it to be more "mobile" than "portable".
Lookie here-
Tang Band W5-876SE 5" Shielded Woofer 16 Ohms 299-135 f3 of 60 hZ in a 0.25 cubic foot vented enclosure. 16 ohm so derate efficiency to 84 dB.
HiVi F5 5" Bass/Midrange 297-435 59 Hz with 0.27 cubic foot vented enclosure, 86 dB
HiVi M5a 5" Aluminum/Magnesium Midbass 297-437 48 Hz with 0.47 cubic foot vented enclosure, 87 dB.
Dayton Audio RS150T-8 6" Reference Woofer Truncated Frame 295-342
etc. There's a lot of choices.
Tang Band W5-876SE 5" Shielded Woofer 16 Ohms 299-135 f3 of 60 hZ in a 0.25 cubic foot vented enclosure. 16 ohm so derate efficiency to 84 dB.
HiVi F5 5" Bass/Midrange 297-435 59 Hz with 0.27 cubic foot vented enclosure, 86 dB
HiVi M5a 5" Aluminum/Magnesium Midbass 297-437 48 Hz with 0.47 cubic foot vented enclosure, 87 dB.
Dayton Audio RS150T-8 6" Reference Woofer Truncated Frame 295-342
etc. There's a lot of choices.
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