I'm a newbie considering building some Proac Tablette 50s. I'm having problems finding the SEAS P14RCY/P drivers, all I can find are P14RCY. Is it possible just to substitute these? How would these compare to my B&W601's?
Mike
Mike
JMO but a smaller speaker is going to have a hard time against
the B&W601's (you don't say which version) as will any built
loudspeaker unless it has a properly designed crossover, serious
attention paid to the cabinet and high quality units fitted.
A high quality miniature stand mounter could compete with
the 601's if a subwoofer is involved, even so maximum levels
would be lower, due to the miniatures sensitivity.
🙂 sreten.
the B&W601's (you don't say which version) as will any built
loudspeaker unless it has a properly designed crossover, serious
attention paid to the cabinet and high quality units fitted.
A high quality miniature stand mounter could compete with
the 601's if a subwoofer is involved, even so maximum levels
would be lower, due to the miniatures sensitivity.
🙂 sreten.
Thanks for the reply.
The 601's are series 2.
I'm just looking for a 'cheapish' DIY standmount project that has been tried and tested. There are plenty of floorstander project around but I can't find much in the way of smaller speakers
Surely the Proacs would be a step up from a pair of £200 B&W's?
Mike
The 601's are series 2.
I'm just looking for a 'cheapish' DIY standmount project that has been tried and tested. There are plenty of floorstander project around but I can't find much in the way of smaller speakers
Surely the Proacs would be a step up from a pair of £200 B&W's?
Mike
You'd expect the real ProAc's to be, but I wouldn't
expect a very basic clone to be that good.
try this :
http://home.hetnet.nl/~geenius/HATT-III.html
Personally I'd build the cabinet somewhat differently,
more like the ProAc with thinner, better damped walls.
If your interested I'll post some details.
or this :
http://home.hetnet.nl/~geenius/DD8-MkII.html
🙂 sreten.
expect a very basic clone to be that good.
try this :
http://home.hetnet.nl/~geenius/HATT-III.html
Personally I'd build the cabinet somewhat differently,
more like the ProAc with thinner, better damped walls.
If your interested I'll post some details.
or this :
http://home.hetnet.nl/~geenius/DD8-MkII.html
🙂 sreten.
Yes, thats the site where i got the details from but I can't find the P14RCY/P for sale anywhere!
Can anybody suggest any alernative bookshelf speaker projects that will improve on my 601s2's?
Mike
Can anybody suggest any alernative bookshelf speaker projects that will improve on my 601s2's?
Mike
Hi Mike,
I replaces my 601s2 with a pair of IPL A2mk4 from IPL .
ALthough designed as a floorstander (and this is how I eventually built them) I chatted with Ivan about building them as a (sealed) bookshelf and he seemed to think it would be fine, with perhaps a slight tweak of removing a couple of turns from the main inductor in the x-o. I also considered trying a bookshelf TL with these drivers (look for KLS5 linked from t-linespeakers.org) but finally decided to go with the floorstander, for now anyway. The A2 are an improvement in the midrange as the harshness I noticed from the B&W was gone, but I remember reading in a thread here that someone had redesigned the x-o in his 602s2 and improved this aspect by including a zobel on the mid-bass - might be worth a try first (try on-site searching for B&W 602).
Ian
I replaces my 601s2 with a pair of IPL A2mk4 from IPL .
ALthough designed as a floorstander (and this is how I eventually built them) I chatted with Ivan about building them as a (sealed) bookshelf and he seemed to think it would be fine, with perhaps a slight tweak of removing a couple of turns from the main inductor in the x-o. I also considered trying a bookshelf TL with these drivers (look for KLS5 linked from t-linespeakers.org) but finally decided to go with the floorstander, for now anyway. The A2 are an improvement in the midrange as the harshness I noticed from the B&W was gone, but I remember reading in a thread here that someone had redesigned the x-o in his 602s2 and improved this aspect by including a zobel on the mid-bass - might be worth a try first (try on-site searching for B&W 602).
Ian
Disabled Account
Joined 2003
You may build a pair of bookshelf speakers based on a 6.5" woofer and 1" tweeter, but like your 601S2 better?
In terms of size, the Shamrock Audio SE-1 would compete with larger 602. I have not heard it, but it is perhaps one of the better designs out there using those well regarded Vifa drivers.
I understand Dennis Murphy is well like in DIY circles for his XO work, and has a XO design for the same drivers. The details are not up on his website since they're still preliminary. Perhaps email him?
However, I'd be willing to bet that the DD8-MkII that sreten suggested will be better than the 601S2, considering the good quality (but reasonably priced) aluminium drivers from Seas, careful crossover design and good cabinets. If I wanted a "standard" sized bookshelf speaker this is what I'd build.
In terms of size, the Shamrock Audio SE-1 would compete with larger 602. I have not heard it, but it is perhaps one of the better designs out there using those well regarded Vifa drivers.
I understand Dennis Murphy is well like in DIY circles for his XO work, and has a XO design for the same drivers. The details are not up on his website since they're still preliminary. Perhaps email him?
However, I'd be willing to bet that the DD8-MkII that sreten suggested will be better than the 601S2, considering the good quality (but reasonably priced) aluminium drivers from Seas, careful crossover design and good cabinets. If I wanted a "standard" sized bookshelf speaker this is what I'd build.
Do the B&W's have some kind of magic dust inside or something?
I cant possibly see how a well designed DIY attempt is going to sound anyworse then a BUDGET hifi speaker. I know B&W are one of the better manufactures out there and keep value for money rather large as they make everything themselves so thus can spend a bit more on drive units, but to me there is only so much you can do with £200 and thats after profits.
Sreten is your comment refering to someone designing a speaker of their own and not doing a competant job? thus the drivers are not used to their full potential? Or do the B&W's have driver quality that can rival a good quality seas unit?
I cant possibly see how a well designed DIY attempt is going to sound anyworse then a BUDGET hifi speaker. I know B&W are one of the better manufactures out there and keep value for money rather large as they make everything themselves so thus can spend a bit more on drive units, but to me there is only so much you can do with £200 and thats after profits.
Sreten is your comment refering to someone designing a speaker of their own and not doing a competant job? thus the drivers are not used to their full potential? Or do the B&W's have driver quality that can rival a good quality seas unit?
Hi 5th,
given the cost of drivers in the UK the B&W speakers are
very good value IMO and very well engineered, not that
they can't be tweaked.
No-ones let me "upgrade" their B&W's, but I will say
they do have remarkable control of cabinet resonances
(for what is essentially a folded sheet MDF box)
but I have been unable to determine how this is done.
IMO throwing together a "clone" box of about the right
size together with what appear to be similar drivers with
presumably the correct crossover (if its been measured),
is not a recipe for sucess.
B&W drivers are very good, but for the budget range you
do expect maximum levels and excursion to be limited.
🙂 sreten.
given the cost of drivers in the UK the B&W speakers are
very good value IMO and very well engineered, not that
they can't be tweaked.
No-ones let me "upgrade" their B&W's, but I will say
they do have remarkable control of cabinet resonances
(for what is essentially a folded sheet MDF box)
but I have been unable to determine how this is done.
IMO throwing together a "clone" box of about the right
size together with what appear to be similar drivers with
presumably the correct crossover (if its been measured),
is not a recipe for sucess.
B&W drivers are very good, but for the budget range you
do expect maximum levels and excursion to be limited.
🙂 sreten.
Disabled Account
Joined 2003
Here's DIY bookshelf designs as I see it,
a) Using low price, high value drivers, but careful crossover design
and cabinet materials to build a very good speaker. Typically cheaper than budget priced commercial speakers (ie <$USD250), making them an excellent "first speaker project", but are they as good as speakers like the 601S2/3? (which are known as great speakers and also very good value in the commercial sense)
b) Small mini-monitors, using small (<6") midwoofers and tweeters tweeters, designed for small rooms or use with a subwoofer. Cabinets are small (easy to build) or off shelf products (eg. Parts Express cabinets) These easily compete with the commercial "audiophile" mini-monitors speakers that typically cost USD$1000+ eg. MBOW1. Mid band and imaging is fantastic but you'll be wanting to biamp with a subwoofer, otherwise soon get the itch to upgrade to bigger speakers.
c) Large bookshelfs, with a philosophy of "these are the best 2 way speakers I've been able to make, using exellent parts, AND having satisfying bass". DIY Speakers like Ellis Audio's 1801, Shamrock Eire fall into this category. These would knock the socks off the 601S2/3, but they're also more expensive and larger. They're probably compete with the likes of B&W 705 or 805 speakers.
But where are all the mid-sized, mid-priced, DIY speaker designs? Plenty of the good-ol Vifa P17, but what about using current tech drive units? Isn't anyone interested in building these?
Stuff like the venerable Vifa P17 may be a fair unit, and well liked for smooth response facilitating easy XO design, but the B&W 6.5" and 7" Kevlar drive units are actually very good.
The DD8-MKII is the first mid-sized bookshelf speaker that I've found that uses high tech AND high value drivers, with 6.5" woofers for reasonable bass response.
a) Using low price, high value drivers, but careful crossover design
and cabinet materials to build a very good speaker. Typically cheaper than budget priced commercial speakers (ie <$USD250), making them an excellent "first speaker project", but are they as good as speakers like the 601S2/3? (which are known as great speakers and also very good value in the commercial sense)
b) Small mini-monitors, using small (<6") midwoofers and tweeters tweeters, designed for small rooms or use with a subwoofer. Cabinets are small (easy to build) or off shelf products (eg. Parts Express cabinets) These easily compete with the commercial "audiophile" mini-monitors speakers that typically cost USD$1000+ eg. MBOW1. Mid band and imaging is fantastic but you'll be wanting to biamp with a subwoofer, otherwise soon get the itch to upgrade to bigger speakers.
c) Large bookshelfs, with a philosophy of "these are the best 2 way speakers I've been able to make, using exellent parts, AND having satisfying bass". DIY Speakers like Ellis Audio's 1801, Shamrock Eire fall into this category. These would knock the socks off the 601S2/3, but they're also more expensive and larger. They're probably compete with the likes of B&W 705 or 805 speakers.
But where are all the mid-sized, mid-priced, DIY speaker designs? Plenty of the good-ol Vifa P17, but what about using current tech drive units? Isn't anyone interested in building these?
Stuff like the venerable Vifa P17 may be a fair unit, and well liked for smooth response facilitating easy XO design, but the B&W 6.5" and 7" Kevlar drive units are actually very good.
The DD8-MKII is the first mid-sized bookshelf speaker that I've found that uses high tech AND high value drivers, with 6.5" woofers for reasonable bass response.
sreten said:
I have seen some of their boxes with horizontal grooves (about 6mm x 3mm) machined on the side panels about 2/3 the way down. Also seen a lot of their boxes in chipboard. Their plastic baffles puzzle me as there doesn't seem any ill effects from a plastic moulding of about 1.5mm thick..... lot of stiffeners in the moulding though.
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